RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized...

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized...

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized...

Page: << < prev 5 6 [7] 8 9 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/18/2013 9:53:25 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AaNiMaLl

No soldier would say that they are submissive and if anything they are too macho. Basic training is not designed to create wimps.

Why do you think all subs are wimps? And do you tell possible partners that you will look down on them for submitting?

Submissive just means you don't want the responsibility of being in charge. Most soldiers don't get to decide what to do, they get ordered to do something and they follow orders. Which is as close to a definition of submission as I know.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to AaNiMaLl)

Post #: 121

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/18/2013 12:32:26 PM

SeekingTrinity

Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren

What right do you have to object to a male sub or a female dominant, or a switch or whatever? Who put you in that position to object? You as a male dominant may not be able to see or understand it, but object to it? That is taking a right onto yourself you don't have. This is exactly what ypu decried in others, the idea of being right and proper and telling others what they should do. Societally for years what you are saying has been the norm, but that is a cultural artifact, not reality. Being dominant or submissive is who someone is, or how they id, and you, or anyone else, has no right to object to that, because it is you deciding what is real for them, and that is horse shit.

I haven't ever said it before, but I enjoy reading what you write. You took the words right out of my mouth, njlauren

(in reply to njlauren)

Post #: 122

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/18/2013 12:58:47 PM

AaNiMaLl

Posts: 78
Joined: 4/4/2013
Status: offline

I have to say sorry for that. I actually saw that when I wrote it and didn't go back and change it. Submissives are not wimps. What I meant was essentially, Basic training is not designed to create soldiers that run or submit. Soldiers need to be able to keep fighting with bullets flying past at one metre. When they are put naked into a sack and dropped off in the middle of the wilderness then they need to be able to find their way home. If they are moving to a position then they need to shout it out like, 'incoming fire at 1000 moving right to left at 10 metres' and take action. This sort of thing. It is not a job for submissives. I don't know any soldier that is or would say they are. Of course you don't know what goes on behind closed doors. ...And I have met a lot of American soldiers. They used to visit barracks for Rugby and sports. It was quite funny. Because American soldiers are very tank. I don't know what they feed them over there :). NZ soldiers are like goats that have been left in the mountains too long. And also in the field we are less uniform. Like our webbing is all different. Our hats are all different. Everyone has different packs. This sort of thing is encouraged. But we would still kick their butts in Rugby. But that is because that is NZs sport. I am sure that they would have kicked our butts in Grid Iron.

I am a bit loath to get into a discussion about the nature of the military because I just don't see why people would be interested in it. In the army, in a briefing and America should use the same system. Soldiers are given what, when, why, where but not how to do something. They are given the objective but not told how to get there, that is their choice because usually that is their area of expertise. An officer wouldn't order me on the details of how to do my job. You have Commissioned Officers that are like white collar management, although some of them think that they are soldiers. They say what needs to be done and then you have NCOs who lead with their soldiers. (Now that I think about it, there are quite a few submissive Commissioned Officers). Then you have Non Commissioned Officers and they are dominating. In the NZ Army we were trying to change that culture. It is largely born out of Basic training where soldiers are put under stress as part of their training. Like a soldier doesn't need to be able to fire a rifle at 1km to hit a bee. He or she needs to be able to hit a man at 100 metres with a Sergeant yelling rubbish at him. Stress makes you shake and it is hard to fire. ...the whole cleaning the toilets thing with a toothbrush is not in the NZ Army anymore. We didn't see the point in spending all this money training these soldiers and then getting them to do this sort of thing. But we still have pristine orderliness to the point of OCD. But this is actually a trait more associated with narcissism. It is because soldiers need to pay attention to detail. When you are at home in your nice warm room, that is when you sew your pack. Not when you are in sleet trying to keep warm. I hate sleeping in dirt, I am going to do whatever I can to make it easier. However, there is a bit more to it than that. It is used to break soldiers down psychologically and often as punishment. The idea is that you break them down and build them up again and it seems to work as long as the building up takes place. But I am telling you :) sdraigtup soldiers are not submissive by nature. They aren't these like tree hugging hippies that want to save the world. (Except me, I was enlisted as a specialist hippy. Every army needs a couple). Most of them want a kill and they tattoo skulls on their arm for every one that they get. They don't fight to save the world, they fight for the dirt that they walk on. And aside from that, civilians have no idea what infantry go through. Especially, Recon, which is Warmachine. They are harder than you can imagine.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 123

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/18/2013 1:03:43 PM

WarMachine904

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline

People exist in whatever world they exist in. Reality is based on well, whatever your perception of reality is. And that differs for everyone. For someone to say that I live in a sheltered world, and I have not grown up or matured is directly related to their idea of reality, and how my opinion fits into that view.

Having traveled to over 40 countries, lived in three different countries and numerous states within the United States, as well as spending just under six years in direct combat, I would say that I have seen more than most. So in my reality, I find those who don't have similar experience to be sheltered. And that is how their opinions fit into my reality.

The part that I find most humorous about all of this, is although my opinion is absolute for me, I do not attempt to push it upon others. It's what I believe, and I am entitled to do so. The fact that someone does not agree, does not threaten my belief or my view of the world. It is simply a difference of opinion, which I am comfortable with. And that shows a high degree of maturity and tolerance.

And all the "I'll show you", and "you aren't this", kindergarten antics are coming from those who proclaim to be enlightened and mature. That doesn't really add up to me, and I can only attribute it to their own insecurities.

And Jeff, I didn't say that women ARE or AREN'T dominant. In fact, in one post I said they can be whatever they choose to be, or more importantly whatever they see themselves to be. I don't lose sleep sleep over it.

_____________________________

WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 124

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/18/2013 4:17:46 PM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline

AaNiMaLi - I am submissive - but not at work. In fact, I have no problem getting into the face of any of my doctors (think dominant behavior) if I think there is a reason. If you told any of my workmates that I was submissive, they would laugh in your face.

I personally know at least two submissives that have had long time careers in the military - and I rather doubt that their submissiveness was an issue at work.

(in reply to AaNiMaLl)

Post #: 125

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/18/2013 4:31:16 PM

njlauren

Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren

Thanks, LP, well said...I think what those defending the OP are leaving out is he didn't say he didn't understand it or it wasn't for him, he said he objected to it, and he also made some statements about it not following the natural order of things or some such, that 'domination is masculine, submission is feminine", is distasteful on many levels (it implies that a dominant woman is not feminine or a woman, it implies a submissive male is less than a man) ,it was arrogant and patronizing. Simply because he said "I don't care what your lifestyle is" or other saying "he doesn't want to interfere with anyone else's life" isn't a defense, because he still in his words was demeaning others who don't fit his ideas of things...

Oh for goodness sake, stop trying to continually dissect what he said. We all have reading comprehension, some of us just don't need to do some bloody post-mortem and turn it into something its not!

I know plenty of women who think there is no such thing as a dominant male as well as men who object to dominant women. I don't get my knickers in a knot over their opinion because its just an opinion and its not worth wasting energy over it.

I know I'm dominant, I don't feel insecure if someone questions that or even chooses not to believe it. If your a submissive male who feels all offended by this, then you need to have a word with yourself.

That is you. I am not insecure in the least bit, but I also will come back when someone says something that I feel is wrong, and if you don't like it, don't read what I write, I won't be offended. He can believe what he wishes, but as another poster said, he also can expect when he says stuff that irritates others to get responded to. The point of these boards is discussion, sharing opinions, and your claim it is turning it into something its not isn't true, because a lot of people responding to his post are saying pretty much what I did. And if it doesn't bother you, why are you bothering to respond at all? More importantly, should people only respond to things you think are worth it? As far as there being plenty of women who don't believe there is a dominant male, or men who object to dominent women, if they posted on here, they would get the same response from me..I was responding to one poster and to what others wrote on the topic, I don't care if 99% of the people you know agreed with him, or that 99% of the people you know wouldn't care, that is meaningless.....the people who responded, including myself, framed a response to him, and the only one getting their knickers all bunched up is you *shrug*. BTW, if you had reading comprehension, you would know the difference between someone saying "I don't understand something" and saying they object to it, there is a world of difference.

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 126

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/18/2013 4:33:05 PM

njlauren

Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

AaNiMaLi - I am submissive - but not at work. In fact, I have no problem getting into the face of any of my doctors (think dominant behavior) if I think there is a reason. If you told any of my workmates that I was submissive, they would laugh in your face.

I personally know at least two submissives that have had long time careers in the military - and I rather doubt that their submissiveness was an issue at work.

I have known some as well, some of them were special forces types, tough as nails, wouldn't take crap from anyone, but also were in D/s relationships with dominants..and said dominants would literally beat their asses red if they ever saw them acting like wimps, they loved having strong, confidence, alpha male types as subs:)

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 127

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/18/2013 4:36:51 PM

AaNiMaLl

Posts: 78
Joined: 4/4/2013
Status: offline

Kiwisub: yes, well, you can never know what people get up to behind closed doors. But the original argument was that Warmachine must be submissive or some such thing because he is in the army. I was trying to prove that the army requires a dominant personality. I think what you are talking about is a whole separate area concerning the overlap between public and private lives. ...Either these two people that you knew were Commissioned Officers or they did not have the cross over between their work and private lives. Because on a day to day basis combat roles require aggressive behaviour. They wouldn't survive at all if they were submissive. I enlisted as a soldier but later became a Field Psychologist. I think that I found more narcissistic personalities in the army than any other workplace that I have been involved with. ...But I always find this interesting. Because I am wouldn't say that I am overly dominant in my day to day life. ...Actually, I found the whole line of logic interesting. It was like trying to undermine someone's right to say that they are dominant and thereby through attacking their person, defeat their argument at the same time.

Oh also as an edit. I have something to put forward. Maybe I am right and maybe I am wrong. But I was thinking about why I don't like dominant women and maybe it is because I love submissive women. Is it possible for me to accept both? Does the degree to which I love one exclude liking the other? If I love a woman for her submissiveness, is it possible to like another for her dominance when they are at opposite ends of the spectrum? ...Cognitive Dissonance. Is it possible for me to accept these two conflicting notions that women should be submissive and women should be dominant?

Also, as another edit :) the more anti, the better right. Got to get some sort of argument going. Too boring otherwise.

< Message edited by AaNiMaLl -- 8/18/2013 4:49:04 PM >

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 128

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/18/2013 7:47:58 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

I have a seriously huge advantage because the majority of My kink life has been spent in military towns. Due to that specific exposure, there are two things that I tend to tell people. First, there are wayyy more kinky people in uniform than most people think there are. That's even with all of the stuff in the UCMJ about 'damaging government property'. (Meaning, literally, the soldier.) Second, because I am a female Dominant, I see just as many military subs as I do Doms when it comes to males. You have to keep in mind, the sub guys are sending Me more emails than they are the male Doms, so I'm going to see more of them.

Just to keep it clear, I count both. Meaning current or prior military service.

< Message edited by LadyPact -- 8/18/2013 7:48:19 PM >

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to AaNiMaLl)

Post #: 129

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/18/2013 8:44:02 PM

WarMachine904

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline

I'm not really understanding how we arrived on a discussion about kink in the military vs some other demographics, when actually the OP was why people here find it so difficult to acknowledge a difference of opinion, belief, or view without trying to demonize it, or attack it.

_____________________________

WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 130

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/18/2013 9:53:25 PM

Arturas

Posts: 3245
Status: offline

quote:

What we are about to do here is often called a lesson in learning. We shall discuss furthering your education so that ignorance can be left aside.

Apparently this post is supposed to impress you that there is a "we" and this poster is representing them or leading them and "they" are going to "discuss furthering your education so that (your) ignorance can be left aside".

"We" don't believe it is our place to educate anyone and "we" respect your opinion just as "we" respect others and their separate and very different kinks when "we" observe them and even participate in them while at the club. "We" also do not appreciate the poster implying that she represents "us" as fairly knowledgeable and experienced BDSM practitioners.

I did enjoy the post from "LP". I am amused by the pure poison dripping from each word but hope you understand that while "we" don't necessarily agree with you just as LP does not, "we" are not harmed by your opinion nor are "we" here to educate you and instead know that since your opinion is wrong it will just have to be that way. 'We" do not take your post personally and will not bring you down simply because you have an opinion that "we" don't agree with.

Well wishes,
"We"

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 131

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/18/2013 9:57:35 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904
I'm not really understanding how we arrived on a discussion about kink in the military vs some other demographics, when actually the OP was why people here find it so difficult to acknowledge a difference of opinion, belief, or view without trying to demonize it, or attack it.

Generally, all threads have some drift. Discussions come up from the discussion that was started.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 132

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/18/2013 10:02:00 PM

Arturas

Posts: 3245
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I have a seriously huge advantage because the majority of My kink life has been spent in military towns. Due to that specific exposure, there are two things that I tend to tell people. First, there are wayyy more kinky people in uniform than most people think there are. That's even with all of the stuff in the UCMJ about 'damaging government property'. (Meaning, literally, the soldier.) Second, because I am a female Dominant, I see just as many military subs as I do Doms when it comes to males. You have to keep in mind, the sub guys are sending Me more emails than they are the male Doms, so I'm going to see more of them.

Just to keep it clear, I count both. Meaning current or prior military service.

I'm ex-military and I am amused by your reference to the UCMJ as if kink damage might be addressed by it, sure, as much as a sunburn might, it's an old joke in the military about damaging government property with sunburns, kink and extreme hangovers. But, it's not up to "us" to educate you but you might ignore what the military "subs" tell you.

LOL.

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 133

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/18/2013 10:02:56 PM

WarMachine904

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline

We,

Thank you for your understanding.

Sincerely,

They

_____________________________

WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 134

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/18/2013 10:05:02 PM

Arturas

Posts: 3245
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: WarMachine904
I'm not really understanding how we arrived on a discussion about kink in the military vs some other demographics, when actually the OP was why people here find it so difficult to acknowledge a difference of opinion, belief, or view without trying to demonize it, or attack it.

Generally, all threads have some drift. Discussions come up from the discussion that was started.

Strange, that phrase was used by a moderator recently, exactly. But back to the post, my post above was just "drift".

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 135

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/18/2013 10:38:22 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
I'm ex-military and I am amused by your reference to the UCMJ as if kink damage might be addressed by it, sure, as much as a sunburn might, it's an old joke in the military about damaging government property with sunburns, kink and extreme hangovers. But, it's not up to "us" to educate you but you might ignore what the military "subs" tell you.

LOL.

Hangovers, play, or any activity that makes one unable to perform duty.

Just out of curiosity, were you a lifer, Art?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
Strange, that phrase was used by a moderator recently, exactly. But back to the post, my post above was just "drift".

Must have been three or four years ago, I wrote a thread to basically ask how much "drift" is acceptable. If I remember right, the thread ended up being about blueberry pie, but I got a pretty good answer from Alpha when I asked her privately.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Arturas)

Post #: 136

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/19/2013 2:49:02 AM

MariaB

Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

One of the things I find hugely frustrating on any forums is, the lack of ability to actually understand what's being said. If you are a popular poster then some will hang off your every word. If you are an unpopular or unknown poster, people either won't hear you or cleverly pick out and quote just one sentence, which on its own changes everything else you said!

Us humans have proven that we have the ability to escalate conflict with whatever tools we are given. These forums are a place where we can vent our anger whilst retaining virtual anonymity. We can start a 'Jerry Springer' type verbal war with complete lack of accountability because the crossfire will always remain distant from its target!! Its not new (we used to write angry notes) its just much more accessible.

I find armchair activism fascinating and sometimes very addictive. Most ongoing threads rely on flame wars to survive. You can almost guarantee who's going to join in, who's going to take offence, who is going to quote that one snippet of your post that they can get their teeth into with the venom of a cobra.

If the op hadn't written that one sentence about female dominants and male submissives, this thread wouldn't be on the front page any more because nobody wanted to talk about the topic he offered up. Perhaps that was WarMachines genius to keep this thread going?!?!

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19

< Message edited by MariaB -- 8/19/2013 2:58:09 AM >

_____________________________

My store is http://e-stimstore.com

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 137

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/19/2013 6:00:10 AM

evesgrden

Posts: 597
Joined: 6/9/2012
Status: offline

quote:

I'm not really understanding how we arrived on a discussion about kink in the military vs some other demographics, when actually the OP was why people here find it so difficult to acknowledge a difference of opinion, belief, or view without trying to demonize it, or attack it.

Simple.
You objected to the idea of a male submissive.

Not that it's not for you, or you couldn't imagine one of your peers or superiors being into it, but you objected to the very idea.

Objecting to an idea only happens when someone thinks there is something very wrong with that idea becoming behavior.

I object to the idea of communism. I object to things I think are wrong, not things that are not my taste, but that are wrong.

You object to the idea of male submissives and female dominants. That's a direct quote from you.

Kink in the military was supposed to help you understand and potentially relate to it in a way to help make it less objectionable to you. What subsequently came out of the discussion was the misguided notion that submissives are timid or not combat material.

_____________________________

What you permit, you promote.

(in reply to WarMachine904)

Post #: 138

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/19/2013 7:56:08 AM

MariaB

Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

Fish, for me has an objectionable smell but that doesn't mean I won't sit next to my friend or husband in a restaurant when they eat fish. Just because I don't understand how people can eat and enjoy fish doesn't mean I don't accept it can smell and taste nice to some people. Darn, I may even sit with some good scene friends who are eating fish whilst Philip talks about his objections towards female dominants. Just because he can't comprehend a female being dominant doesn't mean it doesn't exist and well he knows that. His opinion doesn't threaten our friendship. Why when we can have earnest and intelligent discourse should I allow this one objection to distract me? Its not as though he's racially prejudiced or homophobic which for me would be a friendship deal breaker.

I'm not saying people shouldn't be offended. Its all subjective and I fully understand that some people have become so focused on the ops objections that they can't move on without trying to convince him otherwise. Its a bit like the Fin Domme thread which has become somewhat of a mission to convert anyone who objects. An absolutely pointless exercise imo.

_____________________________

My store is http://e-stimstore.com

(in reply to evesgrden)

Post #: 139

RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized... - 8/19/2013 8:07:23 AM

WarMachine904

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/2/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL area
Status: offline

ob·ject - /ˈäbjəkt/ - Verb - Say something to express one's disapproval of or disagreement with something: "residents object to the volume of traffic".

quote:

ORIGINAL: evesgrden

I object to the idea of communism. I object to things I think are wrong, not things that are not my taste, but that are wrong.

You object to the idea of male submissives and female dominants. That's a direct quote from you.

And therein, lies the disconnect in your logic. You object to things that YOU DISAPPROVE OF. Just as I object to things that I DISAPPROVE OF.

You bring up the idea of communism being wrong. Who says it is wrong? Wrong for who? It is your opinion that communism is wrong, and you object to it. Great. That and $0.75 may get you a cup of coffee. Because in the grand scheme of the things, nobody gives a flying fuck what anyone else objects to, including you...or me, for that matter. We are not the world authority on anything. (Edited by me)

And it is interesting that you bring up the notion of communism, because until we abandon democracy, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights (which we are in the process of doing), everyone of us, myself included, is entitled to have and express an opinion, belief, view, or objection.

For instance, you object to my objection. Ok, great. We covered that.

BUT THE PURPOSE OF EXPRESSING MY OPINION IN THE FIRST PLACE WAS THE DEMONSTRATE THAT DESPITE MY OWN VIEWS, BELIEFS, AND OPINIONS, I CAN ACCEPT THAT OTHER'S MAY NOT SHARE THE SAME VIEWS, BELIEFS, or OPINIONS....AND NOT FEEL COMPELLED TO CHASTISE THEM, DEMONIZE THEM, OR "SCHOOL" THEM INTO CHANGING THEIR BELIEF.

< Message edited by WarMachine904 -- 8/19/2013 8:17:46 AM >

_____________________________

WarMachine904
"I am not a Dominant by choice, I am Dominant by nature's design!"

(in reply to evesgrden)

Post #: 140

Page: << < prev 5 6 [7] 8 9 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Let's see if we can keep this one civilized...

Page: << < prev 5 6 [7] 8 9 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.093