Chemical weapons used in Syria

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tweakabelle -> Chemical weapons used in Syria (8/22/2013 6:48:55 AM)
1400+ dead from a suspected chemical weapons attack in Syria. The depravity of the violence there has hit a new low. Even worse, no solution is on the horizon as various outside interests (which includes just about every player in the ME scene from AQ and Iran to Israel and the US ) manouvre for control. No 'good guys' to be seen anywhere. 100,000 dead and still counting. Syria has become the new Lebanon. Obama warned that use of chemical weapons was a "red line" that would invite US direct US involvement. Yet there seems to be no appetite for direct involvement in the West. Assad is a butcher but the opposition is increasingly AQ-aligned. Is there any hope for the long suffering Syrian people? http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/world/middleeast/syria.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

DesideriScuri -> RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria (8/22/2013 8:00:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle 1400+ dead from a suspected chemical weapons attack in Syria. The depravity of the violence there has hit a new low. Even worse, no solution is on the horizon as various outside interests (which includes just about every player in the ME scene from AQ and Iran to Israel and the US ) manouvre for control. No 'good guys' to be seen anywhere. 100,000 dead and still counting. Syria has become the new Lebanon. Obama warned that use of chemical weapons was a "red line" that would invite US direct US involvement. Yet there seems to be no appetite for direct involvement in the West. Assad is a butcher but the opposition is increasingly AQ-aligned. Is there any hope for the long suffering Syrian people? http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/world/middleeast/syria.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 UN intervention? This is a fucked up situation for any US politician. Support the people of Syria and the other side will accuse you of supporting AQ/terrorists. Support Assad, and the other side will accuse you of supporting a tyrannical despot. Obama should have kept his mouth shut, regarding the "red line." Now, he'll have to act, or be exposed (further) as a paper tiger. IMO, Assad needs ousted more than Qaddafi (or however it's spelled) did.

RottenJohnny -> RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria (8/22/2013 9:29:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Support the people of Syria and the other side will accuse you of supporting AQ/terrorists. Support Assad, and the other side will accuse you of supporting a tyrannical despot. Unquestionably. So we do what everyone thinks is probably the right thing and get rid of Assad. Then what? We're left with another country full of factions who are happy to have us remove their obstacle so they can try taking over and continue hating us. Here's an idea...do nothing, say nothing, avoid the issue, and let the rest of the world figure it out on their own for once. France seems all fired up to jump in. Let them handle it. I find myself utterly unconcerned if the Syrians burn themselves to the ground or figure out how to get rid of Assad. No matter what we do it will yield the US no appreciation from anyone.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria (8/22/2013 9:58:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Support the people of Syria and the other side will accuse you of supporting AQ/terrorists. Support Assad, and the other side will accuse you of supporting a tyrannical despot. Unquestionably. So we do what everyone thinks is probably the right thing and get rid of Assad. Then what? We're left with another country full of factions who are happy to have us remove their obstacle so they can try taking over and continue hating us. Here's an idea...do nothing, say nothing, avoid the issue, and let the rest of the world figure it out on their own for once. France seems all fired up to jump in. Let them handle it. I find myself utterly unconcerned if the Syrians burn themselves to the ground or figure out how to get rid of Assad. No matter what we do it will yield the US no appreciation from anyone. Except the side we help. But, that will likely be short-lived anyway. Lack of action leads to egg on Obama's face (which is why he shouldn't have drawn a line in the sand regarding chemical weapons). He'll be shown to be wishy-washy (don't support Iran's popular uprising against Achakmserpoiaadlkfasdinenjad; support the uprising against Qaddafi; don't support the uprising against Assad; be vocal in supporting Egyptians; etc.). Like I said, this is a fucked up situation for US politicians.

mnottertail -> RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria (8/22/2013 10:03:52 AM)
Well, where is the hue and cry from the right for war? isnt this about the 7th or 8th excuse that w and co used to go into Iraq after all the others were found to be knowing lies? Where are our patriotic americans, fucking us here at home on social security, jobs, healthcare, but the vanguard for american freedom in the gassed countries?

DesideriScuri -> RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria (8/22/2013 10:16:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Well, where is the hue and cry from the right for war? isnt this about the 7th or 8th excuse that w and co used to go into Iraq after all the others were found to be knowing lies? Where are our patriotic americans, fucking us here at home on social security, jobs, healthcare, but the vanguard for american freedom in the gassed countries? Don't forget that one of the reasons we went into Iraq was over the ties to AQ. Can't really make that claim against Assad, can we?

SilverMark -> RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria (8/22/2013 10:17:36 AM)
The French are doing a lot of sabre rattling, let them go in! http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/22/france-warns-syria-response-chemical We have enough sand in our boots as is!

mnottertail -> RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria (8/22/2013 10:46:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Well, where is the hue and cry from the right for war? isnt this about the 7th or 8th excuse that w and co used to go into Iraq after all the others were found to be knowing lies? Where are our patriotic americans, fucking us here at home on social security, jobs, healthcare, but the vanguard for american freedom in the gassed countries? Don't forget that one of the reasons we went into Iraq was over the ties to AQ. Can't really make that claim against Assad, can we? Oh, no we didn't, they had no ties, that was one of the seven or eight tries at finding a reason that didnt pan out, that was after 9/11, yellow cake, nuke weapons it was at least 4th or 5th on the list of created justifications.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria (8/22/2013 10:54:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Well, where is the hue and cry from the right for war? isnt this about the 7th or 8th excuse that w and co used to go into Iraq after all the others were found to be knowing lies? Where are our patriotic americans, fucking us here at home on social security, jobs, healthcare, but the vanguard for american freedom in the gassed countries? Don't forget that one of the reasons we went into Iraq was over the ties to AQ. Can't really make that claim against Assad, can we? Oh, no we didn't, they had no ties, that was one of the seven or eight tries at finding a reason that didnt pan out, that was after 9/11, yellow cake, nuke weapons it was at least 4th or 5th on the list of created justifications. No, we did use it as a reason. I didn't say we found it to be true, just that it was used as justification. Hussein hadn't gassed his peeps for how many years before we went in? 10-20 years?

mnottertail -> RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria (8/22/2013 11:02:22 AM)
I believe it was 12. It was so many years ago, he gassed Kurds (that should have been a clue for W there that it was gonna be a all hail the conquering hero lets thow some shoes at that murderous bitch sorta invasion.

SilverMark -> RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria (8/22/2013 11:06:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I believe it was 12. It was so many years ago, he gassed Kurds (that should have been a clue for W there that it was gonna be a all hail the conquering hero lets thow some shoes at that murderous bitch sorta invasion. He also gassed Iranians, but that was ok, he was doing our bidding....must be a sliding scale in there somewhere?

DesideriScuri -> RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria (8/22/2013 11:13:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SilverMark quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I believe it was 12. It was so many years ago, he gassed Kurds (that should have been a clue for W there that it was gonna be a all hail the conquering hero lets thow some shoes at that murderous bitch sorta invasion. He also gassed Iranians, but that was ok, he was doing our bidding....must be a sliding scale in there somewhere? One of the given reasons for going into Iraq to depose Hussein was that he gassed his own citizens. IMO, that's worse than gassing an enemy combatant. I think he gassed his own partly to experiment, but that subject selection was politically done.

RottenJohnny -> RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria (8/22/2013 11:20:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri No, we did use it as a reason. I didn't say we found it to be true, just that it was used as justification. Hussein hadn't gassed his peeps for how many years before we went in? 10-20 years? The Halabja gas attack was in 1988.

Real0ne -> RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria (8/22/2013 11:24:50 AM)
quote: Assad is a butcher absolutely positive right? quote: The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country. ~Reichsmarschall Hermann Wilhelm Göring of course todays tactics are to hire mercenaries like black water to do the dirty but it all works out in the wash. you are sure?

DesideriScuri -> RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria (8/22/2013 11:27:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri No, we did use it as a reason. I didn't say we found it to be true, just that it was used as justification. Hussein hadn't gassed his peeps for how many years before we went in? 10-20 years? The Halabja gas attack was in 1988. And, we went in in 2002, 14 years later. Well within my 10-20 year spread. I did a quick googling and most of the links just mentioned Hussein doing these things "during the '80's." The exact date wasn't necessary as I know we aren't going to wait over a decade to go into Syria, if we are going to go into Syria for Assad's use of chemical weapons...

Real0ne -> RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria (8/22/2013 11:30:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri No, we did use it as a reason. I didn't say we found it to be true, just that it was used as justification. Hussein hadn't gassed his peeps for how many years before we went in? 10-20 years? The Halabja gas attack was in 1988. And, we went in in 2002, 14 years later. Well within my 10-20 year spread. I did a quick googling and most of the links just mentioned Hussein doing these things "during the '80's." The exact date wasn't necessary as I know we aren't going to wait over a decade to go into Syria, if we are going to go into Syria for Assad's use of chemical weapons... The Devil in the Details: The CIA and Saddam Hussein "The coup that brought the Ba'ath Party to power in 1963 was celebrated by the United States. The CIA had a hand in it. They had funded the Ba'ath Party - of which Saddam Hussein was a young member - when it was in opposition. yeh its such a small world now days

papassion -> RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria (8/22/2013 11:37:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Well, where is the hue and cry from the right for war? isnt this about the 7th or 8th excuse that w and co used to go into Iraq after all the others were found to be knowing lies? Where are our patriotic americans, fucking us here at home on social security, jobs, healthcare, but the vanguard for american freedom in the gassed countries? Don't forget that one of the reasons we went into Iraq was over the ties to AQ. Can't really make that claim against Assad, can we? Oh, no we didn't, they had no ties, that was one of the seven or eight tries at finding a reason that didnt pan out, that was after 9/11, yellow cake, nuke weapons it was at least 4th or 5th on the list of created justifications. Which one of the "tries" was Hillary Clinton and John Kerry in on? I clearly remember both of them giving speeches why we had to go in! People with selective "memories" seem to forget about them being hot to go in!

mnottertail -> RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria (8/22/2013 11:47:17 AM)
They were hot to go in, based on falsified intelligence by W. Why didn't Issa investigate that. People with no memory are stupid, I think, unless it is alzheimers like St. Wrinklemeat, then they are ignorant.

RottenJohnny -> RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria (8/22/2013 12:51:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri No, we did use it as a reason. I didn't say we found it to be true, just that it was used as justification. Hussein hadn't gassed his peeps for how many years before we went in? 10-20 years? The Halabja gas attack was in 1988. And, we went in in 2002, 14 years later. Well within my 10-20 year spread. I did a quick googling and most of the links just mentioned Hussein doing these things "during the '80's." The exact date wasn't necessary as I know we aren't going to wait over a decade to go into Syria, if we are going to go into Syria for Assad's use of chemical weapons... Relax. I was only throwing in an FYI.

RottenJohnny -> RE: Chemical weapons used in Syria (8/22/2013 1:00:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne The coup that brought the Ba'ath Party to power in 1963 was celebrated by the United States. So do you view our getting rid of Saddam as cleaning up our own mess?

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