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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/27/2013 9:35:24 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		I suppose I am not most guys then. I can fuck whoever I wish, but it would take a lot for me to bring another slave into the mix. It is hard enough work being responsible and accountable for one slave, much less two or more. Any disruption in the household would be something that would have to be worked out promptly and too many disruptions and someone is going out the door.

Too much work on top of an already busy household, so either I am not most guys or most guys do not think of this stuff. I was always under the impression that poly was more than one in the inter-personal relationship and I have not considered sport fucking to be an inter-personal relationship. So I cannot drawn a line connecting fucking another girl with poly.

My girl was very sick for about a year and was speaking with me about bringing in another because she felt she could not do everything I wanted to be pleased. I told her that the damage to her self esteem would not please me and my dick did not rule my household.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger

I realize that most guys are drawn to polyamory because they just want to fuck around and cheat see it as an excuse to do so. It's the same with women, although they're less transparent about it.




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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/27/2013 9:36:29 PM   
SerWhiteTiger


Posts: 437
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From: Why is my name Florida? That's a state!
Status: offline 		In a world where abusive wife beaters consider themselves BDSM and everyone accepts their identification as such, what percentage of BDSM relationships would be long lasting and happy?

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Profile   Post #: 162
RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/27/2013 9:38:57 PM   
SerWhiteTiger


Posts: 437
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From: Why is my name Florida? That's a state!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

Fast reply

I have yet to hear of any example of a longstanding happy poly family except for Knight of Mist's family.


And how much exposure do you have to it outside of this website? I mean, this website isn't even a great example of BDSM, let alone polyamory.

Try the forums at this dating site:

polymatchmaker.com


Here, Fet, and some offline BDSM friends. In the offline circle of folks, I haven't seen a poly relationship last more than a few years (under 5).

Is polymatchmaker.com like Match.com only for poly? I often wonder what Match's long term success rate is. I know a LOT of folks who have used it, and one married couple who met on Match. Not a huge success rate. According to OnlinePersonalsWatch, in 2009, 1 in 1369 dates lead to marriage on Match. If PolyMatch is on par with Match, I'll contend that KoM's family is a rare success, indeed.



No, it's more like this site if you got rid of all the fake and clueless dating profiles.

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Profile   Post #: 163
RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/27/2013 9:40:24 PM   
SerWhiteTiger


Posts: 437
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From: Why is my name Florida? That's a state!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I suppose I am not most guys then. I can fuck whoever I wish, but it would take a lot for me to bring another slave into the mix. It is hard enough work being responsible and accountable for one slave, much less two or more. Any disruption in the household would be something that would have to be worked out promptly and too many disruptions and someone is going out the door.

Too much work on top of an already busy household, so either I am not most guys or most guys do not think of this stuff. I was always under the impression that poly was more than one in the inter-personal relationship and I have not considered sport fucking to be an inter-personal relationship. So I cannot drawn a line connecting fucking another girl with poly.

My girl was very sick for about a year and was speaking with me about bringing in another because she felt she could not do everything I wanted to be pleased. I told her that the damage to her self esteem would not please me and my dick did not rule my household.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger

I realize that most guys are drawn to polyamory because they just want to fuck around and cheat see it as an excuse to do so. It's the same with women, although they're less transparent about it.





I wasn't saying that's what polyamory is about, just that that is what public perception of it is and thus why those guys are drawn to it. You are clearly more educated about what polyamory is than most.

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/27/2013 9:42:18 PM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
... but folks like Knight & his family give me hope that it needn't be the image you have in your head.

They are a very rare family, in my perspective.

Oh, I definitely agree.

Back when I was brand new there was one couple on here that claimed something that sounded like "M/s" to me and yet made it sound non-stupid. MercnBeth held up a signpost for me. Just knowing it was possible was incredibly useful information. Knight & Co. serve the same function for me with Poly. I'm just not as motivated to act on the poly thing as I was the M/s thing.

Insofar as it's rarity, I'd put it about the same as relationships I personally would classify as "M/s" so it's rarity doesn't bother me much either.

_____________________________

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"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/27/2013 9:55:55 PM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
my dick did not rule my household.

ROFL... this is SO exactly like something I'd say. Except I'd say, "My dick doesn't rule me." The very notion that it might is somewhere between horrifying and terrifying to me. LOL, even just to write this post I could feel the beginnings of resentment and resistance forming like some shadow of a tidal wave.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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Profile   Post #: 166
RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/27/2013 10:07:26 PM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Where? Post number where I said they had the right to do anything. Either put up or recant for inserting this shit into the discussion and then saying I said something I did not. That is dishonest. You are either projecting because of "discussions" elsewhere, or you are purposefully doing it to prove some point.

The only right I have mentioned is the one where an owner in a non-negotiated inter personal relationship can do as they please in relation to the OP. I do not see death and dismemberment in the OP, do you?

Yes the D type has the ability to screw over the s type because of the power they wield, but that is not unique to just this type of inter-personal relationship, that is part of all relationships. There is often unwritten common sense that goes with things in life, I just do not see the sense in telling someone to use their curling iron for external use only when speaking of how to curl hair. Get it?

As far as "real life slavery" goes, that is a personal definition. There was chattel slavery, which is illegal now, but there are ways to make people slaves if you bother to read about that type of psychological conditioning.


quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren
Both you and the other guy were saying the M has the right to do anything they wish, and that could easily include doing what I just said, and it goes on in some quarters. Emotional damage may not be as horrible as physical damage, but it is damage nonetheless. An M who has a sub who is claustrophobic and decides to lock them in a box could end up driving them into a psychotic state or into a catatonic one, when you take on the M role with the idea you can do anything, you literally are taking on the power to screw someone up, hurt them, and that is my point, that claiming 'absolute power' to do what they wish, because that is what an M is, has potential issues with it.




"The only right I have mentioned is the one where an owner in a non-negotiated inter personal relationship can do as they please in relation to the OP. "
"I do not see death and dismemberment in the OP, do you?"

No, but you also didn't rule it out, either. When you say "they can do as they please", you put no quantifications on it. I am not saying you, Marc or anyone else on here who is an M in a M/s would do that, what I am trying to say is that using your words, you could justify an M who seriously hurt or even killed their slave and argue the slave signed on to do or take what their M gave them, that's all. In real life most people taking on the M role understand ethics and they understand their slave is a human being , not a piece of property, and that ultimately the slave has to reserve for themselves the right to walk away if they are being harmed and the M insists they have the right to do that.

I am not saying that M/s relationships are abusive, I am not saying anyone on here is or condones it, I simply was pointing out that the words "the owner can do as they please in relation to the OP" could mean something very, very dark with the wrong owner....I don't think you meant it to be 'the owner can do what they want, no matter what', but that can happen, it is why these relationships are not for everyone and also can easily slip over the line with an M who is not very ethical and an s so into the role that they forget about self preservation.....I am simply pointing out that words mean something, and we have to be careful using terms like 'an owner can do as they please in relation to the OP', because that could mean things a normal person wouldn't think of, but an abusive person could, and I have heard words similar to that used to justify the actions of an abusive M, and also in telling people they had no right to interfere if they saw an M who was breaking bones and such, claiming that was part of the deal of being an s to an M, which is utter bullshit, but they were applying the "their kink is their kink' stuff. Again, that is not what you were saying, I didn't claim you did, I was only pointing out the possible implications of words you used, not what you meant by it.

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/27/2013 10:57:24 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren


"The only right I have mentioned is the one where an owner in a non-negotiated inter personal relationship can do as they please in relation to the OP. "
"I do not see death and dismemberment in the OP, do you?"

No, but you also didn't rule it out, either. When you say "they can do as they please", you put no quantifications on it. I am not saying you, Marc or anyone else on here who is an M in a M/s would do that, what I am trying to say is that using your words, you could justify an M who seriously hurt or even killed their slave and argue the slave signed on to do or take what their M gave them, that's all. In real life most people taking on the M role understand ethics and they understand their slave is a human being , not a piece of property, and that ultimately the slave has to reserve for themselves the right to walk away if they are being harmed and the M insists they have the right to do that.


Some one can say what they like but there is the rule of common sense that should always be recognized. If someone is so far gone that mere mention of someone have the right to do as they please, makes them believe that killing an s type is an M's right, then no amount of disclaimer or anything else will change that.

When you mix those comments into a reply to someone, you also imply they are inferring it. That is the issue I have with those posts. Most problems I have encountered in life, comes from bad communication.

quote:


I am not saying that M/s relationships are abusive, I am not saying anyone on here is or condones it, I simply was pointing out that the words "the owner can do as they please in relation to the OP" could mean something very, very dark with the wrong owner


Sorry but that is a huge stretch. read my first paragraph above as it applies again. You have said it twice in two different ways up to this point in just this post. Psychologically that tends to point to it being a huge issue to you, in a way that is not realistic. Kind of like when someone that is mugged sees shadows and thinks someone is there to harm them.

quote:


....I don't think you meant it to be 'the owner can do what they want, no matter what', but that can happen, it is why these relationships are not for everyone and also can easily slip over the line with an M who is not very ethical and an s so into the role that they forget about self preservation.....


Third time in just this post.

quote:


I am simply pointing out that words mean something, and we have to be careful using terms like 'an owner can do as they please in relation to the OP', because that could mean things a normal person wouldn't think of, but an abusive person could, and I have heard words similar to that used to justify the actions of an abusive M, and also in telling people they had no right to interfere if they saw an M who was breaking bones and such, claiming that was part of the deal of being an s to an M, which is utter bullshit, but they were applying the "their kink is their kink' stuff. Again, that is not what you were saying, I didn't claim you did, I was only pointing out the possible implications of words you used, not what you meant by it.


No we do not have to be careful. Kind of like the "Use the curling iron" reply when someone is talking about curling hair, someone should not have to say "and by they way don't stick it up your ass or vagina."

People can use what they want to justify anything. Do you really think clarification on your part will really stop someone that wants to justify an insane act?

By the way, I count four, maybe five times if you treat two sentence above as two separate instances. Five times in just this post and then all of the other. That seems a bit extreme and ludicrous in my opinion. You cannot save people from themselves.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/27/2013 11:53:16 PM   
SoulAlloy


Posts: 2106
Joined: 8/23/2009
From: Preston, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger

I realize that most guys are drawn to polyamory because they just want to fuck around and cheat see it as an excuse to do so. It's the same with women, although they're less transparent about it.

Personally, I became polyamorous because I was completely and totally disgusted with what I saw in monogamy and rejected it, and part of that was the exact same things you guys are saying about polyamory. I didn't even have a desire to have multiple relationships at the time, I just couldn't see why I'd want to stop someone I loved from having multiple relationships if they wanted to. My first polyamorous relationship involved me encouraging my girlfriend to seek another relationship and her finding one.


So what things disgusted you about mono? I'm just curious if we'd see those in poly too?

I know of a few successful poly relationships (and a few car crashes) and I often think its down to the people involved rather than the dynamic itself.

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(in reply to SerWhiteTiger)
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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/28/2013 12:36:25 AM   
SerWhiteTiger


Posts: 437
Joined: 8/12/2013
From: Why is my name Florida? That's a state!
Status: offline 		The entire point of monogamy is jealousy and possessiveness. There's plenty of that in people in poly too. People without those qualities are poly by default IMO. I strive to not have those qualities (while owning a slave lol).

I also believe that monogamy is very unnatural and has been forced on our culture by the church for the last few millennia. Understand that it originated in a time when women were little better than slaves in actuality. A rich harem girl lived a much better life than a year 105 farmer's wife, so the church had to force people to get out there and be monogamous or the wife/slaveless farmers would riot

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/28/2013 12:37:39 AM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger

The entire point of monogamy is jealousy and possessiveness.



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Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/28/2013 12:40:45 AM   
SerWhiteTiger


Posts: 437
Joined: 8/12/2013
From: Why is my name Florida? That's a state!
Status: offline 		It originated from thinking about what "love" is and coming to the conclusion that love means their happiness makes you happy. If someone I loved wanted to do something to make themselves happier, why would I ever stop them?

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/28/2013 1:07:17 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

Fast reply

I have yet to hear of any example of a longstanding happy poly family except for Knight of Mist's family.



How long is long standing?

I've been with Himself for 15 years now, and I've been with my (male) sub for about 7. We don't all live together, but we think of ourselves as a family. Although I am sexually mono with Himself, I do love my sub, we have an intimate relationship, and Himself is not threatened by that in the least.

It is actually possible to love more than one person. I personally believe, however, that you can serve only one master. If there are two d-types in the household, one has to have final authority.


_____________________________



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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/28/2013 1:13:57 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger

The entire point of monogamy is jealousy and possessiveness. There's plenty of that in people in poly too. People without those qualities are poly by default IMO. I strive to not have those qualities (while owning a slave lol).




Both mono and poly can and do have aspects of jealousy and possessiveness.

From an anthropological point of view, the whole point of monogamy is so that the male can ensure the children the female produces are his. As a strategy for that, it's a failure, about 10% of children in the US think they know who their father is, but they don't.

I think poly or mono is down to emotional wiring that occurs early enough in life that to fuck with it is emotionally damaging. There are some people who are *never* going to have just one sexual partner. Part of ethical poly is to be open and honest about that.

Then there are those who are strictly mono, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with religion.

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/28/2013 7:07:40 AM   
TieMeInKnottss


Posts: 1944
Joined: 9/6/2012
Status: offline 		I have no problem with open relationships. I think those have the best chance of survival when everyone is on board. Like Chatte and LP...who have a primary relationship and then each primary has another single.... They are open but, in reality, each is its own dynamic that only has 2 people. The ones I am leery of and would not work for me are the "triad". Everyone involved with everyone whether it is a D/D/s or a D/s/s- would never work for me and, honestly, from what I have seen, long term success is usually when there is some other common thread. Religion -everyone believes that this is God's will and all are devout to the religion so they overcome other issues. Society-places where women are limited in rights and must have a male to allow them travel, jobs...especially places like Iran and Iraq where after the 8 year war that killed off a majority of the young, marriageable men...some men took 2nd and 3rd wives for no other reason than as a charitable act.

I respect those who can have a poly life. I wish I could see it for myself because I think, on the surface, it looks great (raising kids together, sharing household duties...like "Big Love")...but I know myself and I know reality and it is not something I could do or could believe would work for and make me happy.

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/28/2013 7:33:47 AM   
KnightofMists


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Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger

The entire point of monogamy is jealousy and possessiveness.......


The narrowness of that point of view is so narrow... I would be carefully not make any sudden turns as you might push your nose into a wall.



_____________________________

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/28/2013 7:54:08 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I suppose I am not most guys then. I can fuck whoever I wish, but it would take a lot for me to bring another slave into the mix. It is hard enough work being responsible and accountable for one slave, much less two or more. Any disruption in the household would be something that would have to be worked out promptly and too many disruptions and someone is going out the door.

Too much work on top of an already busy household, so either I am not most guys or most guys do not think of this stuff. I was always under the impression that poly was more than one in the inter-personal relationship and I have not considered sport fucking to be an inter-personal relationship. So I cannot drawn a line connecting fucking another girl with poly.

My girl was very sick for about a year and was speaking with me about bringing in another because she felt she could not do everything I wanted to be pleased. I told her that the damage to her self esteem would not please me and my dick did not rule my household.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger

I realize that most guys are drawn to polyamory because they just want to fuck around and cheat see it as an excuse to do so. It's the same with women, although they're less transparent about it.





Awww, that is beautiful. What a man WHAT A MAN! That's the definition of loving right there.

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/28/2013 8:26:12 AM   
Spiritedsub2


Posts: 3316
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

Fast reply

I have yet to hear of any example of a longstanding happy poly family except for Knight of Mist's family.



How long is long standing?

I've been with Himself for 15 years now, and I've been with my (male) sub for about 7. We don't all live together, but we think of ourselves as a family. Although I am sexually mono with Himself, I do love my sub, we have an intimate relationship, and Himself is not threatened by that in the least.

It is actually possible to love more than one person. I personally believe, however, that you can serve only one master. If there are two d-types in the household, one has to have final authority.


To be honest, I consider you monogamous, not poly, because you are sexually monogamous with your husband. To me emotional intimacy that doesn't "rise" to sexual intimacy is more akin to deep friendship. I recognize that my own personal definition of monogamy is just mine, not anyone else's.

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RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/28/2013 8:29:44 AM   
Spiritedsub2


Posts: 3316
Joined: 7/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SerWhiteTiger

The entire point of monogamy is jealousy and possessiveness....
<snip>

I think this is really sad. But to each his own.

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~ Rumi

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Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Mono vs poly? - 8/28/2013 8:34:46 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		For the longest time I didn't consider us poly for the same reason. But my relationship with my sub has depended to the point that it's not just friendship. Plus, he blends in with us as a couple well.

I do play with him when he's naked, which is something most strictly mono dom males are not going to allow.

So I agree we don't fit the standard definition. It's been my experience that those groups that last the longest *don't* fit the standard definition, the people involved invented their own definition.


_____________________________



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