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Inspiring submission... - 8/24/2013 9:30:14 AM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline 		"Inspiring Submission."
I've seen a lot of people use this terminology...

I've also seen a few people use terms like "Breaking in", which is met with a bit of prejudice.
I don't like the idea of breaking anything... but "Breaking in" is really only describing a process by which something (or someone), is made to better suit the person doing the "Breaking in"... When I think breaking in, I think breaking in a shoe, or glove... I suppose when we get into a 'training' kind of frame of reference, breaking in a horse jumps to mind and I have always disliked that type of 'training' and much prefer the idea of "horse whispering".

If I understand the idea correctly, horse whispering involves inspiring submission in a way.

Those were my thoughts randomly thrown out there in no particular order...
I'd obviously like to hear from people who have their own ideas on this stuff, but to make this post a bit more user friendly I'll add some questions as well.

-Is the term "Inspiring Submission" a girly way of looking at the role of a dom?
-(if applicable) How do you inspire submission?
-Would this terminology mean Doms are supposed to be the equivalent of 'Sub/Slave Whisperers?'
-Is "breaking in" really such a bad way to talk about getting a sub to suit you?


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RE: Inspiring submission... - 8/24/2013 9:51:05 AM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		I think it's the familiar concept of 'breaking in' a horse that puts people off the phrase, I think you hit on it exactly.

I would not serve anyone who could not inspire me to submit of my own free will. I have had acquaintance with a few Doms in the past, who seemed bent on keeping me no matter how we matched, and just doing whatever it took to change me to their will. I didn't stay around long enough for them to have the chance. One of my hard limits is I don't want any attempt to change my core personality. By that I mean that I insist on serving someone I am already a good match for, who genuinely likes me for who I am. 'Training' me to meet their individual preference in playtime, sex and daily and domestic service is fine. For instance, my last Dom hated crockpotted foods. I love my crockpot. But while serving him I did not use it, because it was not his preference.

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RE: Inspiring submission... - 8/24/2013 1:17:14 PM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

"Inspiring Submission."
I've seen a lot of people use this terminology...

I've also seen a few people use terms like "Breaking in", which is met with a bit of prejudice.
I don't like the idea of breaking anything... but "Breaking in" is really only describing a process by which something (or someone), is made to better suit the person doing the "Breaking in"... When I think breaking in, I think breaking in a shoe, or glove... I suppose when we get into a 'training' kind of frame of reference, breaking in a horse jumps to mind and I have always disliked that type of 'training' and much prefer the idea of "horse whispering".

If I understand the idea correctly, horse whispering involves inspiring submission in a way.

That is an excellent analogy and I am with you 100%. I have been a BHS horse trainer and I have worked directly with Richard Maxwell in natural horsemanship. BHS training was all about creating a bike, natural horsemanship was about creating a happy and well functioning follower.

quote:


-Is the term "Inspiring Submission" a girly way of looking at the role of a dom?
No. Inspiring submission is all about being a good leader. Not all dominants are leaders, just as not all leaders are dominants but a dominant who wishes to inspire submission imo is a leader. You can't however, start to inspire submission from someone who clearly isn't submissive!

quote:


-(if applicable) How do you inspire submission?
Many things come to mind... consistency, by creating a safe environment, resistance and refraining when appropriate. You have to be well disciplined, confident, loving but firm. Theres plenty more but its been a long day!
quote:


-Would this terminology mean Doms are supposed to be the equivalent of 'Sub/Slave Whisperers?'
I'm sure not many people here know what a horse whisperer is but I would say that a horse whisperer is consistent, creates a safe environment, is well disciplined, confident, caring but firm, so yes! A few years ago I tried my hand at being a pony Mistress to a very beautiful female submissive. I knew very little about human ponies and all I had was my real horse training. I took her down the lines of 'natural horsemanship' and in so many ways it was very similar to the real thing. The results were pretty awesome.... human pony training was the most natural role-play I have ever had the pleasure of doing.

Lets not mistake people for horses though!!
quote:


-Is "breaking in" really such a bad way to talk about getting a sub to suit you?

No because its all subjective. Some submissives love the thought of being broken in and the tougher the better. Some dominants want to break in (whatever that means to them).


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RE: Inspiring submission... - 8/24/2013 1:26:26 PM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline 		I find 'breaking in' a less objectionable phrase than 'breaking'. Breaking just suggests damage. Breaking in puts me in mind of getting used to a new pair of shoes - it suggests adjustment and getting comfortable.

I don't know how I feel about the term 'inspiring submission'. I see what's it's trying to convey, but at the same time it's often used in some very airy-fairy texts in an overly-romantic way.

I'd say what husband does for me isn't so much 'inspiring submission' as it is creating a safe environment in which I can submit. I suppose that's a small distinction. I want to submit, it's pleasing to me, it doesn't require inspiration. But it does require someone who complements me, who is stable, reliable, trustworthy, smart etc. Forgive the cheesy analogy (best I can come up with on little sleep) but for me it's more like a seed growing - the seed wants to grow, it's in its nature to do so, but it needs the right conditions to germinate and to grow into a strong plant. Nature doesn't need to inspire the seed, but it does need to allow it those things.

I would say that 'inspiring' and 'breaking in' don't need to be mutually exclusive - you could inspire someone to submit but still need to go through a 'breaking in' period to get things working right.

edit: got over-excited with the apostrophes

< Message edited by AthenaSurrenders -- 8/24/2013 1:31:19 PM >

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RE: Inspiring submission... - 8/24/2013 1:40:22 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
Inspiring submission is all about being a good leader. Not all dominants are leaders, just as not all leaders are dominants but a dominant who wishes to inspire submission imo is a leader. You can't however, start to inspire submission from someone who clearly isn't submissive!
I agree with this...for the most part.

I tend to be more of an alpha personality and probably 99% of the Dominants that have met me would say I'm not submissive. But, when I come up against someone that is more dominant than I am, I will become submissive. (Much like the alpha lioness in a pride of lions. The male is the head, she submits to him but dominates everyone else.)

For me, I very much have to be inspired because otherwise I will just assume power.

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RE: Inspiring submission... - 8/24/2013 2:27:27 PM   
AaNiMaLl


Posts: 78
Joined: 4/4/2013
Status: offline 		I know that bdsm is a lifestyle but realistically, it is one part of my life. Submission isn't an isolated thing that is inspired apart from everything else. There are a lot of other things that are required in the relationship. If I would choose a word then I would say that all my relationships have started with friendship. I love submission but I also love making her laugh and that constant smile. What I am saying is, that dominance alone isn't enough to simply take submission. There are more things at work.

Also, everyone is different about what they view as dominant. Some see a computer geek as the most powerful thing on the planet. Others see a cage fighter as dominant. It goes back to attachment theory. The way that we were loved and learnt to develop relationships as children will dictate how we do it when we become grown up. (dot dot dot) The things that we learn to value in our own lives, we value in others. If I stand for something like 'being a gentleman' then it is logical and psychologically dissonant for me to value that quality in other people and value people who admire that quality. If I was a Maori then I would admire people with tattoos on their face. If I was a geek then I would value people with large abdullah oblongata.

< Message edited by AaNiMaLl -- 8/24/2013 2:52:12 PM >

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RE: Inspiring submission... - 8/24/2013 4:32:51 PM   
petitespot


Posts: 288
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Surfside Beach, SC
Status: offline 		For me it's the person and not the act.
I hate doing laundry, but I loved doing his laundry.
It wasn't the idea of submitting that turned me on. It was him.
I loved doing anything I could to make his life easier.
Even if I wasn't submissive I still would have done whatever he wanted because it was for him.
And no other reason.
It was more like inspired love.

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RE: Inspiring submission... - 8/24/2013 6:10:04 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		It's partly a chemistry thing.

I'm not going to compare it to horse whispering because part of how people classically do this to a horse involves separating them from their herd, causing them anxiety and teaching them that they need to now view you as the herd leader or else they're alone.

People are not herd animals and isolation is closer to breaking and abuse than gentling in my book.

What we did with the horses was give them what they needed to be happy and taught them that we were part of that. That when they had an itch, we were the ones with the hard brush that scratched it. That when they wanted to go for a long run, that would happen once we saddled them. And yes, that we had an unlimited supply of treats which were given regularly whether it had been a good day or not.

In many ways, he did this by teaching me that he added to my happiness. He did it by demonstrating that his decisions were well thought out. He didn't rant that I didn't trust him before I really knew him. He explained why he had come to a decision and had no trouble rethinking it if I thought up some aspect of the problem he hadn't considered. And his decisions added to my happiness instead of decreasing it. I learned that he was trustworthy, that I could always come to him with a problem, that he would not reject me because he was in a bad mood.



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RE: Inspiring submission... - 8/24/2013 7:29:08 PM   
paulriley


Posts: 2
Joined: 7/20/2013
Status: offline 		I'm not a fan of horse whisper or human whisper , The whip is the quickest way,and insires dedication in the subject being tained.

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RE: Inspiring submission... - 8/24/2013 9:28:17 PM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulriley

I'm not a fan of horse whisper or human whisper , The whip is the quickest way,and insires dedication in the subject being tained.



It's a good thing your profile states humiliation is one of the things you live for. Welcome to the forums!!

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RE: Inspiring submission... - 8/24/2013 9:50:35 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

-(if applicable) How do you inspire submission?



I am me. This generates inspiration in some and contempt in others. I worry not of either.... I just be me and the inspiration takes care of itself.

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RE: Inspiring submission... - 8/24/2013 9:53:07 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		My submission is inspired by a deep respect. Yes, there's love and trust too. But the respect has to come first.

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RE: Inspiring submission... - 8/25/2013 2:57:56 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		After thinking about the question, I thought of an example of something that happened just the other day.

I went on my first motorcycle ride. I have never been inclined to ride or sit behind someone generally. However, the man who took me for a ride is a man I trust 100%. I knew that I would be completely safe. He would never have invited me to ride if it weren't safe. He has ridden a long time, he's given rides to my friends, I knew he would let me know anything I needed to know in order to be safe. He is a man whom I've known for years and who has shown himself to be trustworthy.

And from the moment I got on the back of that motorcycle, he was completely in charge. He gave me guidelines and information for safety. He drove me around and got me accustomed to the feel of the ride, he let me practice leaning into the turns with him. When we got on the highway, wow! I was totally comfortable and calm - because of him. I relaxed and let go - literally let go of his body and rested my hands on my legs.

There was a wonderful comparitive example that presented itself when some young men rode by on "crotch rockets" driving at high speeds, without helmets, weaving in and out of traffic. It was quite the experience to feel safe sitting behind my friend when these obviously NOT SAFE motorcycle riders went by.

The history that makes this an amazing thing for me is that my oldest brother was killed from a motorcycle ride. My friend inspired me to face my fear. The crotch rocket guys could not have inspired me to climb on the back of a motorcycle with them. I would not have felt safe personally and I would have worried for their safety. I would have never relaxed and enjoyed the ride.

For me, inspiration can get me to do things that I don't want to do or things that are neutral for me - because of my trust in the other person. It is the proof of trustworthiness that inspires me.

best,
sunshine

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RE: Inspiring submission... - 8/25/2013 3:55:01 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Welcome to the forums.

And thanks for providing your point of view.

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RE: Inspiring submission... - 8/25/2013 5:28:18 AM   
Duskypearls


Posts: 3561
Joined: 8/21/2011
Status: offline 		"...but for me it's more like a seed growing - the seed wants to grow, it's in its nature to do so, but it needs the right conditions to germinate and to grow into a strong plant. Nature doesn't need to inspire the seed, but it does need to allow it those things."

Athena, lawd have mercy, but you perfectly nailed it.

So often, your magnificent weave of wisdom and words leaves me breathless. You are such a treasure.

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RE: Inspiring submission... - 8/25/2013 7:19:30 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulriley

I'm not a fan of horse whisper or human whisper , The whip is the quickest way,and insires dedication in the subject being tained.


I now have an ear worm!

Back to the OP's question - I wish I could state why I submit to him. I have met with several doms who were clearly dominant, but I was not inspired to be dominated by them. With Master, I knew from the start that he could possibly be my leader. It took many months to be sure (I tend to be very cautious in relationships) but once the chemistry was there, it felt natural to follow his lead.

If he'd approached me online with words about 'training' or 'breaking in' or anything of that ilk, I doubt I'd ever have met him for coffee. Instead, he proved he was a good man with a twisted sense of humour (much like my own), someone whose decisions I could trust and who wanted what was best for us, not just for himself.

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RE: Inspiring submission... - 8/25/2013 7:25:56 AM   
DanielleofMists


Posts: 57
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		I don't think "inspiring submission" is a fluffy way to describe the role of a Dom, I am motivated internally to submit. I'm certainly not submissive to just anyone, it is absolutely dependent on the individual. Some just command (I'm not referring to a verbal command here) the respect and speak to the submissive/slave in me. It's about having that connection, being a good match with someone so that each person is being authentic and able to be who they are. He elicits submission in me through his word, his actions, his moral code, his consistency and because he is genuine.
quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

"Inspiring Submission."
I've seen a lot of people use this terminology...

I've also seen a few people use terms like "Breaking in", which is met with a bit of prejudice.
I don't like the idea of breaking anything... but "Breaking in" is really only describing a process by which something (or someone), is made to better suit the person doing the "Breaking in"... When I think breaking in, I think breaking in a shoe, or glove... I suppose when we get into a 'training' kind of frame of reference, breaking in a horse jumps to mind and I have always disliked that type of 'training' and much prefer the idea of "horse whispering".

If I understand the idea correctly, horse whispering involves inspiring submission in a way.

Those were my thoughts randomly thrown out there in no particular order...
I'd obviously like to hear from people who have their own ideas on this stuff, but to make this post a bit more user friendly I'll add some questions as well.

-Is the term "Inspiring Submission" a girly way of looking at the role of a dom?
-(if applicable) How do you inspire submission?
-Would this terminology mean Doms are supposed to be the equivalent of 'Sub/Slave Whisperers?'
-Is "breaking in" really such a bad way to talk about getting a sub to suit you?


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RE: Inspiring submission... - 8/25/2013 7:37:55 AM   
MAINEiacMISTRESS


Posts: 1180
Joined: 9/12/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulriley

I'm not a fan of horse whisper or human whisper , The whip is the quickest way,and insires dedication in the subject being tained.


Physical abuse without regard to the mental aspect is the lazy, inexperienced way to achieve dominance over another person. Vanillas use this method.
Submission needs to start in the mind, inspired by Trust that develops toward a Dominant who exhibits self-control and RESPONSIBILITY toward the submissive's safety. Without Trust there is no RELATIONSHIP.

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RE: Inspiring submission... - 8/25/2013 8:38:48 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

After thinking about the question, I thought of an example of something that happened just the other day.

I went on my first motorcycle ride. I have never been inclined to ride or sit behind someone generally. However, the man who took me for a ride is a man I trust 100%. I knew that I would be completely safe. He would never have invited me to ride if it weren't safe. He has ridden a long time, he's given rides to my friends, I knew he would let me know anything I needed to know in order to be safe. He is a man whom I've known for years and who has shown himself to be trustworthy.

And from the moment I got on the back of that motorcycle, he was completely in charge. He gave me guidelines and information for safety. He drove me around and got me accustomed to the feel of the ride, he let me practice leaning into the turns with him. When we got on the highway, wow! I was totally comfortable and calm - because of him. I relaxed and let go - literally let go of his body and rested my hands on my legs.

There was a wonderful comparitive example that presented itself when some young men rode by on "crotch rockets" driving at high speeds, without helmets, weaving in and out of traffic. It was quite the experience to feel safe sitting behind my friend when these obviously NOT SAFE motorcycle riders went by.

The history that makes this an amazing thing for me is that my oldest brother was killed from a motorcycle ride. My friend inspired me to face my fear. The crotch rocket guys could not have inspired me to climb on the back of a motorcycle with them. I would not have felt safe personally and I would have worried for their safety. I would have never relaxed and enjoyed the ride.

For me, inspiration can get me to do things that I don't want to do or things that are neutral for me - because of my trust in the other person. It is the proof of trustworthiness that inspires me.

best,
sunshine


I love this...... It says so much better what feel and think about the questions of the OP.

There was only one key so to speak for sunshine to get on the bike And enjoy the experience. There was many that ride bikes but this one person was consistent and authententic in his riding of his bike. So much so everyone around him would likely know the kind of rider he his. One can trust it and have confidence in the qualities that he has in the use of his bike.

It's is not just that trust is necessary. But the values and qualities of what is trusted that will inspire. These values and qualities need to be consistent and authentic. We can't pretend to be a safe operator of a bike to inspire the trust of someone like sunshine. We have be those things! They have to be demonstrated consistently and authentically over time that we can trust and rely on them.

So as I said. As a dominant.. I be me... It inspires some and others not so much. My ability to inspire some and not others is not important or even irrelevant in my world. But those I do inspire are because I demonstrate the values and qualities consistently and authentically that they value and admire.


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RE: Inspiring submission... - 8/25/2013 9:10:47 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
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Sunny Quote of the Day
goes to
Duskypearls
for
your magnificent
weave of wisdom and words
leaves me breathless.



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