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RE: Master Vs slave - 6/30/2006 9:13:25 AM

heartfeltsub

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Thank you JS for the courage to share that. i hope the OP also thanks you. That was very brave.

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RE: Master Vs slave - 6/30/2006 9:41:46 AM

mtumwawaBwana

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i wish my Master was this easy on me,...........

but then, again, if He were, it wouldnt be the M/s relationship it is now.

just my POV, keeping in mind im just a slave wallflower

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RE: Master Vs slave - 6/30/2006 10:03:10 AM

BelleAnne44

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I'm amazed at the depth of insight and experience that has been shown here to help the OP with his problem. There are so few places that you can be honest about a screwed-up relationship (especially when you're the one who's supposed to be in charge of it), and get respectful and wise responses.

For my very limited 2 cents: I've been in the position where I actually felt the Master slip out of his role and into a peer, level relationship. It scared me big time. It felt something like me going down the road in a cab and the driver hopping in the back seat with me. I wonder if your slave feels like that, and is acting out to get you back up in the driver's seat.

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RE: Master Vs slave - 6/30/2006 11:58:56 AM

Mercnbeth

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Stoney,
This quote from your post:
quote:

a Peice of paper does not make a relation. But it is the ground rules for what is to be . My job is to take care of her as I am doing .

And this, from your OP are not compatible.
quote:

She also has a smart ass attitude.
We have a contract that we both spent time on . She is not living the life of that contract . She is a very nosy slave and does not respect the fact that I am her Master .

The definition of your "job" to "take care of her" should require you to enforce the contract, "she is not living".

If you want to find out what the "piece of paper" means to her - rip it up in front of her. From your statements it's meaningless to the both of you anyway. Why pretend any differently?

You are serving her. Forget your self referencing title and hers. Your actions speak to the dynamic of the relationship and the authority within it. The authority is not you. It's not the "piece of paper".

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RE: Master Vs slave - 6/30/2006 12:07:21 PM

juliaoceania

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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Hi Stoney Sir,

I wanted to ask whether or not you have thought about or considered the possiblity of tearing up this contract and starting over again? I have heard that these contracts are sometimes renegotiated if they do not seem to be working. Another thought is that perhaps your slave is more of a submissive than a slave? Normally I would not state this, but because I know how you define a slave I thought I would ask the question. Perhaps what both of you need to do is rethink how your dynamic works and your roles within the relationship? Im not saying that this would work for both of you... it is only an idea.

I just think that sometimes if we try to put a square peg into a round hole either nothing happens or if we force it we break the peg. Perhaps trying to force someone to be what they can't be just will not work?

You say rose keeps stating she wants a "strong" master, but then becomes rebellious, perhaps the way to show her this is what she really wants is by making her more responsible for controlling the things that were hers to control before you came into her life? People sometimes do not appreciate all we do for them, they tend to take it forgranted. I do not know if rose is doing that, but if she is you might want to illustrate what her life was like before you came into it? That would definitely get my attention if I was taking someone forgranted!

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Master Vs slave - 6/30/2006 12:30:53 PM

CrappyDom

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Shaded,

Thanks for the very introspective post, we need much more of that around here as it would go a long way to helping people find their way. Knowing yourself is so important to making a relationship work and if peoples minds open up, S&M is a great place to do that inner exploration and develop that deep knowledge of yourself. I know for me, that has been the most rewarding thing about exploring S&M.

I hope we see more posts like this one from you and others.

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RE: Master Vs slave - 6/30/2006 1:27:28 PM

MasterStoney442

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I must at this time , Thank you all for your well thought out responses.

I know I have a lot of work to do ,as well as my slave . We have one big problem . There are 4 kids in this house that makes it very hard to do what needs to be done . Yes I did know this when I came here .

And yes you that said I must be harder or stricter are right . I must find a way to do this with the kids being here . It is not easy ,but I will find a way .
Again thank you all for your great response to this thread .

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when you look at life it looks back at you

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RE: Master Vs slave - 6/30/2006 2:10:41 PM

Wulfchyld

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Ah... I was hoping you would make that point. I was a bit concerned that you had not factored them into the equation or thought nothing of them. There are 4 reasons for you to take her in hand and make this work. Assuming the responsibility of slave is a major undertaking, however assuming the responsibility of unmentionables is an epoch of their lives. You must act as mentor and guide to lead them into a place in life that will mold them into a greater person than yourself, regardless of how great you may believe you are you must strive to make them more. In doing this it must be accomplished without the M/s undertone. You have to transcend the role of dominant and become Father, Mentor, and friend. Parenting should never preclude friendship, for that is how we become great communicators and educators. We lead by example and our ability to displace our role, maturity, ego, and become peer.

It is quite a feat to Master her and parent her (and now your, I hope) children and as a good Mother (I hope) her resistance may be that she is seeing you as "trying" to "Master" the children. I have no view into the relationship but as a father I can guess that this may be part of the issue. So now you have a greater dilemma, how to Master your girl and be an outstanding parent. Not an imposable mission, however it is difficult. You lack the luxury of being in heir lives from the beginning; nevertheless this should not stop you from filing the role.

I feel that you need to start over in your relationship and define it as parents first. You need to establish the rules of parenting (the rules of the house) and each of your roles in it. Bear in mind that they may have all rolled out of the same factory but they are all very different critters. The house rules are blanket and all follow to the letter, however you must realize you are working with 4 unique and individual personalities in this and that means you will have to learn how to deal with each one on different levels. Bobby may have to do his homework when he gets home and Jane can do it after dinner; the ground rule homework gets done; the individuality sets the when it is done. I don't know if you have parented before and you don't have to address that I am just making a point. She is mother first and slave second you cannot ask for it to be any other way. She is responsible for the safety and well being of those precious gems and I trust you feel the same.

After taking into account the unmentionables you can address the M/s relationship. It is not safe, sane nor consensual to Dominate her in a M/s fashion in front of the unmentionables so you both need to find a way to make this possible. If she is adamant that discipline will not be a part of the relationship and will not obey you it is time for you to pick one of the remaining two options I listed earlier. I would advice you to designate a room, outbuilding, distant area, etc... outside of the parental zone to implement your M/s disciplinary actions. I am not saying it is necessary to beat her ass, however there exist many forms of discipline beyond corporal. None of which will (or should) interfere with parenting.

I would start looking at restrictions and privileges; speech restrictions, eye contact restrictions, car privileges, outings, phone, PC, etc... If she refuses to comply then again it is time to take one of the two remaining options. Feel free to e-mail me on the other side and say I am a dick or just to talk.

Respectively

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

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Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together

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RE: Master Vs slave - 6/30/2006 3:16:48 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

I have a slave that is very jealous.

That's her own irrational reaction. You can't help her with it. Just be consistent and in time she'll become more secure.

quote:

She also has a smart ass attitude.

Don't allow that sort of behavior if you don't like it. Again, be consistent in word and deed. If she behaves in a way which is not to your liking, have a discussion with her about 'why' she's behaving in such a manner. Perhaps she views the behavior differently from you. She may think being a wise-ass is just entertaining you while you deem it childish. Talk about it and find out for sure what's going on.

quote:

We have a contract that we both spent time on . She is not living the life of that contract .

Either enforce the contract or find out why she's having issues with living up to her part of the bargain.

quote:

She is a very nosy slave and does not respect the fact that I am her Master .

Nosy and jealousy often go hand in hand. Again, be consistent. You can't control her feelings, but you can reinforce your own rules.

quote:

We are In a M/S relationship. This differs from a D/S relation.

This is not meant to be offensive, but it certainly doesn't 'sound' as if it's an M/s relationship. Such requires one to 'be' Master .. and the other to 'be' slave. You may desire the M/s relationship, but it's not there yet.

quote:

The involvement of a M/S relation is way deeper in so many ways .

It can be, but it's dependent upon the individuals to make it so. It's not a given.

quote:

But to me she can not get past her little girl ways .

She is who she is .. either accept it or change those ways by your own consistent actions and reinforced rules of behavior.

quote:

She wants me to be more strict with her .

If that's what you want as well, then do so.

quote:

But when I do that , she does not like that .

Tough for her. She's not the one in control. You are. Behave that way and she'll have little choice in the matter.

quote:

I do not feel that I should have to that with her as we do have a contract , that she must fulfill.

You have to work up to that.. what you 'feel' doesn't matter right now, it's what you 'do' that is going to count. Once you have established yourself as Master, in time, such will come more naturally to her without the need for constant reinforcement. Realize that if that doesn't happen, it's because it wasn't meant for it to happen.. and it's not really the truth of her nature. Be prepared to accept that she may not 'be' a slave at all and you can't force that or negotiate that. You can, however, fool yourself into thinking it's there when it isn't.

quote:

I as Her Master do not have to tell her anything .

Sure you do .. until you don't.

quote:

To me that is the way it should be .

And right now, you're on different pages. Hell, you might not even have the same book! That's where communication comes in and is crucial. Are you sure you're both thinking along the same lines and have the capability of living in an M/s relationship with one another? Best to find that out before trying to be something which you are not... and that's for both of you, not just one or the other.

quote:

One of her biggest things is this computer. If I talk and ask Questions of any slave/sub that is my business.As a slave it is her duty to please me .

Can't argue with that.. but apparently you do let her argue with that. Why are you letting that happen?

quote:

Now what to do is my question .

BE her Master .. let there be consequences for her actions and non-actions. Enforce your rules, reward her successes. Live the life.. walk the walk.

I wish you strength and fortitude and a little bit of luck, because you need all three of those for successful relationships regardless of lifestyle choice.

Celeste

edited to correctly quote

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 6/30/2006 3:17:46 PM >

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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RE: Master Vs slave - 6/30/2006 5:10:07 PM

JessieMe

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I have read some of MasterStoney's postings and I have to say I keep getting this feeling of deja vu.. and the scene I flash on is from the wizard of oz...

All the lights flashing and the sound effects and the head claiming "I am the Great and Powerful Wizard of OZ" and all the time seeing the "little man behind the curtain".

MasterStoney.. you like to talk about what a wonderful Master you are and all the great and wonderful things you have done for her.. but I guess for me.. the proof is in the pudding. I am sorry...thats just my perception of these posts.

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This is who I am
And this is all I know.
That I must choose to live for all that I can give
The spark that makes the Power grow
<Immortality by Celine Dion>

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RE: Master Vs slave - 6/30/2006 5:22:40 PM

mnottertail

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Song lyrics time.........

'You were working as a waitress in a cocktail bar, when I met you............."
"I was working as a waitress in a cocktail bar, that much is true............"
You get the same your girl did, quit fighting and whos right and talk to each other, you big beautiful lug you.......

XO, and go talk to the love of your life.....her.

The best place to find a helping hand is at the end of your own arm.

Ron (sincerely)

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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RE: Master Vs slave - 6/30/2006 10:59:26 PM

Tamerofwild1s

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterStoney442

I must at this time , Thank you all for your well thought out responses.

I know I have a lot of work to do ,as well as my slave . We have one big problem . There are 4 kids in this house that makes it very hard to do what needs to be done . Yes I did know this when I came here .

And yes you that said I must be harder or stricter are right . I must find a way to do this with the kids being here . It is not easy ,but I will find a way .
Again thank you all for your great response to this thread .

Stoney
I have talked in some way with you and your slave on another matter . I happen to have read this thread and thought holy shit that was a situation I wasin once .. it sounds very much like you have a deep love for your slave and want it too work at all costs. I commend you for that . not many would .... I also perfectly understand the wee ones running around can sometimes put a damper on the situation. I have them running around here .. what you might try in this situation is when she gets out of line simply walk over to her whisper in her ear in your best Master voice and let her know that this instance will be discussed once thewee ones are in bed and sleeping .. then dole out the perscibed punishments for her actions .... she may also be using the wee ones as a saftey zone knowing you will notpunish her because they are around . this is why it is important that she know that at night when they are sleeping you will be reddening her ass severly.

this is just a suggestion of course but I found it worked for awhile for me .. it will also help fortify the contract and enforce your position back in her life. This will take time to work as she has been some what out of control for sometime now from what yourpost has suggsted but in time you will see light at the end of the tunnel.

With respect

Master Ravin

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A building get torched. All that is left is ashes. I used to think that it is true about everything - family, friends, feelings - but now I know that sometimes if love proves real, and two people are meant to be together, nothing can keep them apart ~

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RE: Master Vs slave - 7/1/2006 1:32:57 AM

Taylore

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterStoney442

I find myself asking the Questions on here to get feed back .

I have a slave that is very jealous. She also has a smart ass attitude.
We have a contract that we both spent time on . She is not living the life of that contract . She is a very nosy slave and does not respect the fact that I am her Master . We are In a M/S relationship. This differs from a D/S relation. The involvement of a M/S relation is way deeper in so many ways . But to me she can not get past her little girl ways .
She wants me to be more strict with her . But when I do that , she does not like that .
I do not feel that I should have to that with her as we do have a contract , that she must fulfill.
I as Her Master do not have to tell her anything . To me that is the way it should be .
One of her biggest things is this computer. If I talk and ask Questions of any slave/sub that is my business.As a slave it is her duty to please me .
I do look at who she is talking with on here as I should . That is my job in this . She is my property. I own her in every way . ( Hum I guess I do not if I am asking on here ) I am sure she will read this and there will be consequences on this , But oh well maybe that is for the best .
Note I have made her life so much better in all ways . I have taken control of her kids , I have taken control of the bills , In all she has to do is please me . I have gotten her a new car ,I give her what she wants in most cases,.
But still she acts like a kid .
Yes I am to easy with her , that is a fault of mine . Any questions you want to ask me is OK . I am not here to get bashed or bash .

Now what to do is my question .

If this slave was to not adhere to the contract that Master and I agreed upon, our relationship would terminate, with no second chance. We both agreed upon the rules set forth, it's both our responsiblity to uphold them.

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RE: Master Vs slave - 7/1/2006 2:08:21 AM

TxBadMan

Posts: 198
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Moody, Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterStoney442

I find myself asking the Questions on here to get feed back .

I have a slave that is very jealous. She also has a smart ass attitude.
We have a contract that we both spent time on . She is not living the life of that contract . She is a very nosy slave and does not respect the fact that I am her Master . We are In a M/S relationship. This differs from a D/S relation. The involvement of a M/S relation is way deeper in so many ways . But to me she can not get past her little girl ways .
She wants me to be more strict with her . But when I do that , she does not like that .
I do not feel that I should have to that with her as we do have a contract , that she must fulfill.
I as Her Master do not have to tell her anything . To me that is the way it should be .
One of her biggest things is this computer. If I talk and ask Questions of any slave/sub that is my business.As a slave it is her duty to please me .
I do look at who she is talking with on here as I should . That is my job in this . She is my property. I own her in every way . ( Hum I guess I do not if I am asking on here ) I am sure she will read this and there will be consequences on this , But oh well maybe that is for the best .
Note I have made her life so much better in all ways . I have taken control of her kids , I have taken control of the bills , In all she has to do is please me . I have gotten her a new car ,I give her what she wants in most cases,.
But still she acts like a kid .
Yes I am to easy with her , that is a fault of mine . Any questions you want to ask me is OK . I am not here to get bashed or bash .

Now what to do is my question .

The day my girl acts in that manner is the day our relationship ends. No if's, and's or but's about it.

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RE: Master Vs slave - 7/1/2006 2:23:39 AM

WayWardSoul

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You could set up what the vanillas call a date night, only you get a notebook write down everything you feel is out of line for the week, take the younguns to a sitter for the evening and the two of you go over what you have wrote down and deal with it with what ever punishment is needed. If she was good all week use it as a reward night and do something special that night.

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RE: Master Vs slave - 7/1/2006 3:33:56 AM

wandering4u

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Just my opinion but if you want it to work, regain control of the situation. Looking at her profile, it is clear that you have a number of options. Use them to confine her attitude and behavior. If she balks, move on. It seems like she is not as attached as you are to the relationship and is trying to "top from the bottom" (I hate that expression but it seems to fit here).

Good Luck

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RE: Master Vs slave - 7/1/2006 4:15:37 AM

TxBadMan

Posts: 198
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From: Moody, Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WayWardSoul

You could set up what the vanillas call a date night, only you get a notebook write down everything you feel is out of line for the week, take the younguns to a sitter for the evening and the two of you go over what you have wrote down and deal with it with what ever punishment is needed. If she was good all week use it as a reward night and do something special that night.

I would have a problem with rewarding good behavior. A slave should want to please, not expect to be rewarded because of it. Just my opinion though.

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RE: Master Vs slave - 7/1/2006 7:41:03 AM

WayWardSoul

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TxBadMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: WayWardSoul

You could set up what the vanillas call a date night, only you get a notebook write down everything you feel is out of line for the week, take the younguns to a sitter for the evening and the two of you go over what you have wrote down and deal with it with what ever punishment is needed. If she was good all week use it as a reward night and do something special that night.

I would have a problem with rewarding good behavior. A slave should want to please, not expect to be rewarded because of it. Just my opinion though.

Expecting to be rewarded for good behavior is not good behavior and would have to be addressed. I don't see kindness as making me weak, its just another tool to be used.

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RE: Master Vs slave - 7/1/2006 9:04:14 AM

KnightofMists

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What I have to say is not likely going to be popular… particular with rose442

You have been given a lot of advice about being strict and harder. Exactly what does that mean? To me this means that you hold to the boundaries and rules established and that you are consistent in expecting them to be complied with. For example; if you expect that your girl will wipe her feet three times on the door mat each and every time she comes into the house. Not once do you not let her disobey this rule! Each and every time she as failed to comply you are consistent in applying consequences for her disobedience. This is not to say that corporal punishment should occur at the first offense. But you should make her aware that she has failed to comply and you are displeased. Further transgression increases the consequences. I would also note that you can’t expect her to adapt and comply to multiple rules simultaneously. Each person can only adapt and comply with a set number of rules at any one time. The number of rules will be dependent on the difficulty and frequency that they take action that abides by the rule. This is simple conditioning and habit forming principles. I would also note that the person also has to have a commitment and self-motivation to adapt to the changes.

So three questions…. Are you being consistent in your expectation of compliance? Are you expecting to much change beyond the ability of the person? Finally, is the person truly committed and self-motivated to adapt?

Are you being consistent? Being consistent doesn’t mean that you are going to be perfect. But, it does mean that there is clarity of understanding on the part of the submissive that this preference/rule/requirement is expected to be adhered to. She can not be lead to believe that your expectation of adherence is any less committed than her commitment to adapt and comply with the rule. If she perceives you don’t care, she will not care. I would suggest that you look at each and every preference/rule/requirement that you have expressed in your contract and other ways. Consider for yourself are you giving the perception that this particular item is of importance or unimportance to you. Then ask your submissive how she perceives it. DO NOT tell her your own perception. In all likelihood, she is at first going to tell you that they are all important. However, if your honest with yourself and see things that your not consistent in… then you are just getting a lot of lip service from your girl when she express everything is important. It is important that you stress to her that she gives you her honest and direct perception. Make note of the differences and make some decisions on changes of the message that you are sending, where necessary. There is a lot more I could express, but that can be done privately if you wish.

Are you expecting too much change? To many items on the plate can just make a person completely fluster and not know what direction to go. My suggestion is that you list privately what you consider to be the most important preferences/rules/ that she should adapt to. I would also find out which ones she sees as the most important. Have her list them in order of importance. Again do not share your own perceptions of the entire list. Make note of what changes you need to make where necessary. Also, and most important give here in clear terms the Top Three items you wish her to work on adapting to. Make it clear that thou the other rules are important and compliance is appreciated and give you extra pleasure, it is the three rules that you have given her that is immediately required to be adapted to and that failure of effort and commitment of complying to theses three rules cause you immediate displeasure. When she has adapted well to one or two of the rules on a consistent manner, give her another one or two rules to focus on. BUT, make sure each and every time that you give her new goals that you express to her that you recognized she as achieved consistency in adhering to the rules that pleases you and that you expect her to maintain this consistency as she learns to adapt and adhere to the new goals you give her. Again there is a lot more here that I could share privately if you wish.

Is she committed? This is the most difficult to ascertain and it is not something that you can motivate easily. If you do all of the above and are absolutely prefect in its application and still get no results. It will raise the question of commitment to you in the relationship. It will also raise huge questions of her honesty with self of being your slave. I am a firm believer that a submissive is intrinsically motivated. This not something they need to do to feel like a slave or submissive. It is just the way they are. A submissive/slave will very naturally be motivated to adapt to the preferences/rules/requirements that give you pleasure, make your life easier and generally bring happiness to you. This intrinsic motivation will result in bringing her happiness as a result. These intrinsic motivated behaviors will be directed to you due to her being inspired by your character/behavior. If she expresses a deep sense of love and desire to please you. Then she is expressing that she has been inspired! However, if she is not complying to the rules after all efforts have been expended, she is either lying about her love/devotion/respect of you or she is lying about her nature as a slave.

Personally, I see some huge read flags in what I read from her and some concerns of what I read of yours comments. I really question if the two of you are being honest to yourselves. I am concerned that she is claiming slave because it makes her feel better and is trying to fit into the clothes that doesn’t fit her. I am concerned that you trying to fix her life instead of having authority in her life. I am concerned that you both are a train wreck in the making because you both are not being honest with yourselves and your situation. I am hope to private emails if you wish, but don’t ask the questions if you not prepared to hear what you don’t like.

This post is rather long, but it could be alot longer from everything I read of the two of you

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RE: Master Vs slave - 7/1/2006 9:06:48 AM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TxBadMan

I would have a problem with rewarding good behavior. A slave should want to please, not expect to be rewarded because of it. Just my opinion though.

I completely and totally agree..... I never understood why I or anyone should be given a reward to be oneself. Being oneself is reward enough! It makes me question a person's motivation if they seeking reward to behave or adapt

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to TxBadMan)

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Post #: 40