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RE: Feminist song openly calls for violence against men - 9/3/2013 4:14:35 PM   
MsMJAY


Posts: 515
Joined: 3/17/2013
Status: offline 		Men should have the same rights women have.

Yet right now in the US men have more rights than women.

Either gender shouldn't have to fight and beg for something that the other gender already has.

Agreed. Yet women still as a whole get paid a third less than male counterparts. And we are still begging our leaders to pass the ERA.

Would I be considered sexist if men had something that women didn't and I was telling them that they have to fight and beg for it, they shouldn't get it easily for some demented reason?

Men already have many things that women don't have and women are already fighting and begging for it.......and not getting it.

It's like me holding something in front of women that they want and me laughing at them telling them they have to fight and beg for it, they shouldn't get what men are already getting without doing something ridiculous.

You mean like equal pay? or the right to make choices about our own bodies and healthcare? I'm sure there is no way a woman could understand wanting to be treated equal and still being treated like a second class citizen only a man could understand that.

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RE: Feminist song openly calls for violence against men - 9/3/2013 4:21:54 PM   
MsMJAY


Posts: 515
Joined: 3/17/2013
Status: offline 		The utter ridiculousness of your last post just hit me.

"if men had something women didn't"?

Are we being punked? Are you Ashton Kutcher?

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RE: Feminist song openly calls for violence against men - 9/3/2013 4:37:21 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

I've never seen feminism support male issues equally with female issues. In fact, plenty openly admit that they don't give a flying fuck about men considering the common phrase within the movement, "what about teh menz"


I have - and frequently, and with a depth that's sometime surprised me. Perhaps it shouldn't, though, because feminists have, in many ways, been there before. They know what it's like to be reduced to certain narrow roles that fit into a stereotype. They know, for instance, how oppressive it can be to have the demand put upon them to be willowy and beautiful princesses, fragrant and lovely even when fainting - so it isn't much of a jump for them to understand that it's oppressive on men to demand that they be fearless knights - the sorts of fearless knights who'll troop off and get themselves butchered in their millions 'fighting for their homes and families' in world wars, for instance.

Oh hell.

Nick, I don't know where to start with you because, in my eyes, your world view is so fucked up and at such a fundamental level. Obviously it wasn't feminists that sent off millions of altruistic, innocent young men and boys who wanted to be fearless knights to hell on Earth in WW1 - it was the powers-that-be.

It isn't feminists, now, who are screwing your life, or my life - it's *still* the powers that be. But you've allied yourself, comfortably, with the righties and against the lefties . . . without any evident realisation that the powers-that-be don't give a flying one about your cause. Why should they? The men - and it's still mainly men, as I'm sure you must realise - have done very nicely indeed out of the prevailing attitudes regarding gender. Why should they care about someone like you? You don't bash them, you bash others at the bottom - those weirdo feminists with their boiler suits and funny haircuts. (That is, all feminists, according to the stereotypes purveyed by the fat old reactionary farts who run most of the media in most of the world.)

I get a lot of your arguments, Nick, and I accept a lot of your evidence. But you've chosen the wrong allies and the wrong enemies. To me, this smacks of your being duped and, frankly, being intellectually lazy. This is why I generally have so little to say on your threads. You are so often a bit correct, but beneath that and at the same time so tragically wrong.

First step: forget the Right, Nick. It isn't on your side. It thinks you're a dick and laughs at you. It will agree with you right up to and including the point that it sends yet another great bunch of young men and boys to get killed in some fuck-awful war - which has happened, and will happen, for an eternity.

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RE: Feminist song openly calls for violence against men - 9/3/2013 4:42:36 PM   
naughtynick81


Posts: 890
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quote:

Yet right now in the US men have more rights than women.


Care to elaborate?

quote:

Yet women still as a whole get paid a third less than male counterparts. And we are still begging our leaders to pass the ERA.


You can't beg to fix a problem that doesn't exist. That is why there is not the outcome that you are seeking. Something can't be fixed when it doesn't exist to begin with.

That said, of course discrimination does exist against women in isolated instances, like it would also happen in isolated instances where women want to discriminate men or blacks want to discriminate whites. White men aren't the only ones who do evil. Other people other than white men aren't innocent angels.

Anyway, here are the facts that feminists and the people on the left in general want to continuously ignore.

An Analysis of Reasons for the Disparity in Wages Between Men and Women

http://consad.com/index.php?page=an-analysis-of-reasons-for-the-disparity-in-wages-between-men-and-women

Wage Gap Myth Exposed -- By Feminists

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christina-hoff-sommers/wage-gap_b_2073804.html

quote:

Men already have many things that women don't have and women are already fighting and begging for it.......and not getting it.


You mean only less than 1 percent of the female population fight and beg for it, particularly the feminists?

It always gives me a giggle when people try to make out that women as a whole or women everywhere did this or that to make something change when really only less than 1 percent of the female population actually did anything.

quote:

or the right to make choices about our own bodies and healthcare


What superior entitlements do men have with healthcare? Last time I checked, there is more government funding for women's health compared to men's.














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RE: Feminist song openly calls for violence against men - 9/3/2013 4:44:44 PM   
naughtynick81


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quote:

'm sure there is no way a woman could understand wanting to be treated equal and still being treated like a second class citizen only a man could understand that.


I'm sure there are plenty of women out there who constantly make out they know what its like to be a man AND woman while claiming men only know how it's like to be a man.

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RE: Feminist song openly calls for violence against men - 9/3/2013 4:51:53 PM   
MsMJAY


Posts: 515
Joined: 3/17/2013
Status: offline 		"You can't beg to fix a problem that doesn't exist."


If it doesn't exist nick, and women and men are indeed treated equally, then what the heck are you griping and moaning and starting these needless threads for? After all according to your own words no problem exists?

You just discredited your own argument.


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RE: Feminist song openly calls for violence against men - 9/3/2013 5:16:35 PM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
It isn't feminists, now, who are screwing your life, or my life - it's *still* the powers that be. But you've allied yourself, comfortably, with the righties and against the lefties . . . without any evident realisation that the powers-that-be don't give a flying one about your cause. Why should they? The men - and it's still mainly men, as I'm sure you must realise - have done very nicely indeed out of the prevailing attitudes regarding gender. Why should they care about someone like you? You don't bash them, you bash others at the bottom - those weirdo feminists with their boiler suits and funny haircuts. (That is, all feminists, according to the stereotypes purveyed by the fat old reactionary farts who run most of the media in most of the world.)


I agree with most of what you're saying, although I'm a bit curious that you would say that feminists are "at the bottom."

Now that I think about it, the feminists at the colleges don't strike me as coming from poor families, so I would have trouble believing that they're at the bottom. A lot of feminists come from well-to-do families.

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RE: Feminist song openly calls for violence against men - 9/3/2013 5:33:46 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

quote:

Why do you seem to believe it should be so much easier for men?


Men should have the same rights women have.

Either gender shouldn't have to fight and beg for something that the other gender already has.

Would I be considered sexist if men had something that women didn't and I was telling them that they have to fight and beg for it, they shouldn't get it easily for some demented reason?

It's like me holding something in front of women that they want and me laughing at them telling them they have to fight and beg for it, they shouldn't get what men are already getting without doing something ridiculous.

Nooo, that wouldn't be sexist.


And yet women had to fight, beg, plead, threaten.... to get what little they have as far as human righs go. They had to show a need, a cause, and repeatedly shove it into politicians and the medias' faces.

Ya know whats ironic. Here you are, bitching that men dont have what women have, blaming women for not getting it....

Yet, whose fault is it that men dont have what you want them to have?

Who enacts the laws?

Who doles out the money?



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RE: Feminist song openly calls for violence against men - 9/3/2013 5:34:08 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		They wouldn't be at college in the first place if they didn't have a somewhat well off background, would they?
It doesn't follow from that that there are no feminists from harsher circumstances, though: try googling the Pink Sari Movement for one example of that...

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RE: Feminist song openly calls for violence against men - 9/3/2013 5:57:51 PM   
MsMJAY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

They wouldn't be at college in the first place if they didn't have a somewhat well off background, would they?



I came from dirt poor parents. We literally lived in a shack for years on the worst side of town. When we moved to the govn't subsidized housing projects it was considered moving "up".........and I went to college. So no being at college does not mean you come from a well off background.

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RE: Feminist song openly calls for violence against men - 9/4/2013 1:45:43 AM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Feminist Camille Paglia once observed that "There is no female Mozart because there is no female Jack the Ripper.". She also stated that "If civilization had been left in female hands, we would still be living in grass huts.".

Clearly, there are some jobs that women are just not as well suited for as men. The mere fact that laws had to be passed to insure women are paid the same as men illustrates that they are not actually worth as much as men in the labor pool. If women were really as valuable in the job market as they like to believe, there would be no need for such laws. Sorry gals, but there it is in a nutshell.

As for feminists calling for violence against women; look at all the laws passed to protect women from men. I really don't think they're thinking this one through very clearly. Since women are so much weaker than men, (or less violent or whatever you want to personally believe is the reason that these laws exist) that they need protection from men under the law, then it's probably a very bad idea to start physical confrontations with us in most cases.

-SD-








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RE: Feminist song openly calls for violence against men - 9/4/2013 2:20:32 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

Crazyml or whatever

quote:

your opinion isn't evidence. I asked for evidence, you have produced none.


Do I have to write this in crayon for you?

The simple fact is that you claiming this song to be" brilliant and great" as you expressed in your words while saying songs that indicate gender violence against women is "fucked up pathetic misogyny" is a perfect example that your mentality is gynocentric.


Nicky poos. Let me let you into a wickle secwet.... I think it's a sucky song actually, I was mocking you.


As for your false claim that I'm gynocentric.... Do I have to write in crayon for you, I asked for evidence. You cannot provide any, you lose.
quote:


Deny it all you want!

It doesn't matter if a woman is harassed with words or not, the simple fact is that you are giving a song that indicates gendered violence against men a pass. We all know you would be singing a whole different tune if a man made a song about shooting fat chicks in the vulva because he's pissed at them giving him sexual advances.


Oh nickywoos.... this has been covered several times. There are many many songs by men that celebrate violence against women. You've been given examples.

I've pointed out that no-one has ever (to my knowledge and to the best of my searching skills) complained about these songs that promote violence against women.

You lose on this point. You've lost on this point numerous times.

quote:


If a man did, it would be considered creepy and misogynistic rather than light hearted humour.



Babes, men do it all the time. It's often lauded as "Being a big man". Obviously fucking pathetic. Somewhat like your line of argument here.

quote:



We can argue back and forth over and over with this but I don't think it's going to change anything. The simple fact is that you having different attitudes depending what gender is doing the gendered violence pretty much says it all.



I don't have a different attitude depending on what gender is doing the gendered violence. I think it's silly.

But there is a distinction to be drawn between young men talking about spanking their bitches up - just for shits, and a woman taking action against her sexual harrassers.

I know you cannot see the distinction, or maybe you refuse to, but I have explained it a few times now.

quote:



You keeping in denial and making excuses for having two standards isn't going to help you.


I'm really happy that the lack of comprehension isn't down to me. I've explained the distinction.

quote:


Just imagine if it was only considered humorous and only given a pass due to some BS sympathy towards white people to make jokes of racial violence against blacks? Just imagine having two standards depending which race is the victim?


Actually we do. Have two standards. Black comedians are allowed to make "white men can't dance" jokes all the time.

Have you not heard about this? You should arrange some kind of demo.

quote:




Just imagine if I made some BS argument implying that gendered violence against women should be considered funny because we should sympathise what men go through with women?


quote:

Not least because it would remind us too keenly of the violence that is still perpetuated against women.


Double standard!



Oh flower-petal. You don't understand do you? I've explained this a few times.

quote:



Gynocentric bigots always forget the facts.

http://www.mediaradar.org/research.php#waj


Oh I completely agree. The feminist movement has had a few of these - Although, a lot fewer than your women fearing mysogynistic MRA websites would have you believe.

When did I say that DV against men is less important?

I pointed out to you that many people in the feminist movement are standing up against DV against men.

You tried to cite some research that you thought prove your point, but then I pointed out that it had been written by women.

Did you think to yourself "Oh what a stupid cock I was to use that example!" ?


quote:


So violence against men in music videos shouldn't be considered funny for the same reason? Do you feminists ever know how to stop being hypocrites?

quote:

people that cannot distinguish between feminism and gynocentricity.




Actually, contemporary feminism and gynocentricity can easily be defined as the same thing.


Cool. So you don't understand the difference.

That's fine.

quote:


But speaking of gynocentrism, look how you raised the point that gendered violence against women wouldn't be funny because it reminds us keenly about the violence that is still perpetuated against women. Yet, you don't have the same standard for men who are victims of gendered violence. That is undeniable gynocentrism. And this type of hypocritical attitude is very typical to see from feminists.



Not at all. There is still far more violence against women than there is against men.

quote:



I've never seen feminism support male issues equally with female issues.



Then you know absolutely nothing about the movement. All you know is the pathetic shit you read on your fave MRA sites.

"Gender Equality" is a major movement within feminism.

I mean, if you're really this fucking ignorant of the facts, you should shoo-along and inform yourself before you repeat the bigotry that you read on your MRA sites.

quote:


In fact, plenty openly admit that they don't give a flying fuck about men considering the common phrase within the movement, "what about teh menz"


Bless you, you don't understand. "teh menz" is a pointer to the fact that people what whine about mens rights are fucking clueless turds who have no idea how much work there is left to do.

If you asked these women about equal parenting rights, I'd bet you they'd support gender equal rights.

You really don't know what you're talking about, it's embarrassing really


quote:




Every single time I've brought up male issues around feminists, they usually try to hijack the topic with female issues to downplay any male issue or make it forgotten within the topic.

Oh Sossige... You're going to have to open yourself up to the fact that it may be that they regard your remarks as so unutterably fucking stupid, and you so completely irritating that....

I'm just saying.... it could be you.
quote:



Gynocentrism?

quote:

As are a number of feminist groups, writers and activists



Really? Really and truly? I would love to see this ahahahahaahaha


Yes! Really! Really and truly! I gave you a link to a youtube video so you can actually see this.


ahahahahaahaha


Gosh.. that might make you feel a bit fucking stupid.

I mean you'r replying to a post in which I included a link to a video, then you say you'd love to see it.

Fuck me.
quote:



Last time I heard, men are marginalised in feminist founded DV services. If men do get "some" help, it wouldn't be anything near the likes of all the support women would get.



Oh flowerpot... I don't give a flying fuck about the last time you heard. Or where you heard it form.

Of course DV against men is an important issue. And I have no doubt that it is met with scorn in some areas, and where it is those people should be challenged. But again... look at the authors of the reports cited on your MRA sites page - look at how many of them are written by women.

Now.... I don't think we're going to really agree on this are we, munchkin.

And,.. you don't really give a fuck what I think do you?

I hope not.

Because, I sure as shit don't give a fuck about you!

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RE: Feminist song openly calls for violence against men - 9/4/2013 2:38:47 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

"You can't beg to fix a problem that doesn't exist."


If it doesn't exist nick, and women and men are indeed treated equally, then what the heck are you griping and moaning and starting these needless threads for? After all according to your own words no problem exists?

You just discredited your own argument.


Shouldn't that read: "You just demolished your own argument."? I've found there is scant appreciation of subtlety here.

Nick's issues aren't with feminism. Other than being certain that all feminists have hairy legs, wear boiler suits and don't pluck their eyebrows, he knows next to nothing about feminism. Nick's issues are with something else.


< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/4/2013 2:47:53 AM >

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RE: Feminist song openly calls for violence against men - 9/4/2013 6:05:38 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

They wouldn't be at college in the first place if they didn't have a somewhat well off background, would they?



I came from dirt poor parents. We literally lived in a shack for years on the worst side of town. When we moved to the govn't subsidized housing projects it was considered moving "up".........and I went to college. So no being at college does not mean you come from a well off background.

Mea culpa. They've changed things over here over the last twenty years (charging tuition fees, doing away with the grants system and other such malicious evil) in order to keep kids from more straightened backgrounds out of university. It's good to know things haven't got quite that bad over your way yet.

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RE: Feminist song openly calls for violence against men - 9/4/2013 6:50:31 AM   
crazyml


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< Message edited by crazyml -- 9/4/2013 6:57:24 AM >

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RE: Feminist song openly calls for violence against men - 9/4/2013 9:27:53 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
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quote:

quote:

Yet right now in the US men have more rights than women.

Care to elaborate?

In the u.s. only men are allowed the priviledge of making distilled alcohol for drinking. Women are only allowed to brew and ferment no distilling for those who sit down to pee.

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RE: Feminist song openly calls for violence against men - 9/4/2013 4:25:16 PM   
MsMJAY


Posts: 515
Joined: 3/17/2013
Status: offline 		The mere fact that laws had to be passed to insure women are paid the same as men illustrates that they are not actually worth as much as men in the labor pool. If women were really as valuable in the job market as they like to believe, there would be no need for such laws.

So by your logic, the mere fact that they had to pass laws to insure that black people were treated equally with whites means that we blacks are not actually worth as much as white people. Right? Homosexuals too, correct? After all, if we minorities (of all type) were as valuable as we would like to believe there would be no need for laws saying you can't discriminate against us. Right? That is what you are saying isn't it? Your argument is that the mere fact that someone chooses to treat a certain group of people in a discriminatory manner means that group of people is inherently worth less than the group discriminating against them? So that is the same for blacks, gays, Jewish people, Latinos and virtually everyone who is not a heterosexual white male. We are all of less value, right?

Please explain that to me; in fact "explain it to me like I am four year old."- Denzel Washington, Philadelphia.

< Message edited by MsMJAY -- 9/4/2013 4:36:22 PM >

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RE: Feminist song openly calls for violence against men - 9/4/2013 4:42:33 PM   
MsMJAY


Posts: 515
Joined: 3/17/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

quote:

Yet right now in the US men have more rights than women.

Care to elaborate?

In the u.s. only men are allowed the priviledge of making distilled alcohol for drinking. Women are only allowed to brew and ferment no distilling for those who sit down to pee.


Yes.......there's that ......but there is also the fact that states are enacting laws designed to specifically shut down women's clinics. Other states are forcing women to take unnecessary vaginal probes in order to get an abortion (a medical procedure.) Let me know the next time any state enacts a law forcing men to have anal probes in order to have access to the healthcare that a supreme court ruling had to give them in the first place. In fact name any medical procedure decision a man makes that the gov't gets involved in.

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RE: Feminist song openly calls for violence against men - 9/4/2013 4:48:19 PM   
barrick


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< Message edited by barrick -- 9/4/2013 4:49:11 PM >

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RE: Feminist song openly calls for violence against men - 9/4/2013 4:52:08 PM   
naughtynick81


Posts: 890
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		Fast Reply for now

Even the UN has the anti male bigotry bug in regards of DV.

Intimate partner violence predictors according to United Nations

http://imgur.com/YeIl3g9

http://www.unifem.org/attachments/products/312_book_complete_eng.pdf

Page 63

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