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Common Courtesy - 6/30/2006 7:34:24 AM   
ArtimisBlack


Posts: 154
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		What do you consider common courtesy? What do you consider a breach of it? In what ways is respect different from common courtesy?
 
I’ll start:
It’s common courtesy for someone to call if they are going to be late or not be able to come at all. If you just don’t show up no phone calls or anything, that’s a breach of common courtesy.
 
Respect is a little tricky. When I respect someone for them self or something they can do, it usually means I am willing to defer to them in that thing and trust their judgment. I have more faith in them then I do Joe-on-the-street. They have earned my respect by showing themselves worthy of it by being an exceptional person or being able to do exceptional things. In addition to showing them common courtesy I give them that deference and extra trust- that’s how I show my regard. Of course, everything does even out. Also taken into the measure of how much respect I show them is how much respect they show me and others. A rude person who can do amazing things will get my common courtesy, my deference in the subject of their expertise, but nothing more. I will have no faith in them elsewhere, because they haven’t shown themselves worthy of it.

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RE: Common Courtesy - 6/30/2006 7:40:09 AM   
Sab


Posts: 325
Joined: 5/2/2006
From: Canada
Status: offline 		YAY! It's respect week. lol 

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RE: Common Courtesy - 6/30/2006 8:01:27 AM   
Submotive


Posts: 440
Joined: 9/9/2005
Status: offline 		Funny You would post this. i just read the thread on "where has all the respect gone" and this is my opinion as well that respect and courtesy are not one in the same. Personally, i believe respect, like trust, is something earned through time.
 
However, courtesy isn't something to be earned - it's a social grace - sadly lacking in O/our world today. It's also lacking oftentimes on these boards as well. When i first got involved in the BDSM lifestyle i anticipated that at least here, there would be common courtesy. i even thought there would be some small degree of common protocol at social events. But i haven't seen it.
 
In my relationships with other Dom/mes and subs i do extend common courtesy, but only who they are and how they act can reap respect from me.


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RE: Common Courtesy - 6/30/2006 8:16:43 AM   
ArtimisBlack


Posts: 154
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		Lol!
I actually posted this because of the respect thread. It inspired me.

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RE: Common Courtesy - 6/30/2006 8:18:13 AM   
zenofeller


Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
Status: offline 		This thread has the potential to get pretty long. It probably won't tho.

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RE: Common Courtesy - 6/30/2006 8:28:31 AM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		Good question. I guess I'd never thought of the two differently. I'd never thought of deferring to someone with greater knowledge of a subject as showing respect, I just considered it common sense. I'd look pretty foolish arguing with him/her.

I suppose I always considered respecting another person as a sort of general, neutral level of respect. They have not given me any reason to hold them in great esteem, nor any reason to look down on them, so we are equal and I give them the same respect I would like to have from others. So I treat them with common courtesy, as my way of showing that level of respect. My level of courtesy is generally very high.

I hold all people at that level of respect unless they have done or said something to me personally to offend or show disrespect to me, or displayed rude, boorish behavior in my presense. Even then, I wouldn't be rude back, I would simply not offer the extra level of courtesy I show to most people.

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RE: Common Courtesy - 6/30/2006 8:28:48 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		When I was first brought into bdsm I was taught to respect all... show manners always.... show courtesy to all. While under ownership of my first Master... that was all fine and dandy. After his death... I tried to continue with his teachings....and damn near got eaten alive...so I  had to learn real fast.. to nice.. but beware...




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RE: Common Courtesy - 6/30/2006 8:41:16 AM   
DoctorDubious


Posts: 267
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ArtimisBlack

What do you consider common courtesy? What do you consider a breach of it? In what ways is respect different from common courtesy? 
 

 
......... Also taken into the measure of how much respect I show them is how much respect they show me and others. .....



Hi Artemis.... and all.....

My take on it is this....

Courtesy is the exterior stuff, outside your mind,
that "lubricates" our social interactions,
... helps to keep a little order and ease in the world.

Respect is what happens inside..
... inside our hearts and minds and souls..

For me, I set the goal to be courteous and respectful to everybody I meet. 

That means I attempt (and often fail),
to really respect the perfect human souls I meet
who are so cleverly disguised as cretins, slobs,
pompous asses, snarky bitches, and arrogant assholes, etc, etc, etc.....

But there's another reason, more selfish....
why I  try to respect each person I meet.

I suspect that whatever dominates our mind
becomes more and more powerful, and influences me greatly.
I don't want to live inside a mind filled with fear,
or contempt for fools, or anger at violent idiots.....


..... just the opinions of one frisky old goat.

DD

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RE: Common Courtesy - 6/30/2006 8:57:34 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		Common courtesy - polite good manners shown to everyone, regardless of age, race, gender, or personal preferences in such areas as sexuality, religion, or politics.  Those things like saying "Please" when I've asked someone for something (rather than making it a demand) and "Thank You" when a kindness or courtesy is shown to me.  It's those little "chivalrous" things in life like holding a door for someone who's arms are full or answering the phone with a polite tone of voice.

I can be courteous even to someone whom I detest, loath, and despise.  It doesn't mean that I have any sort of respect for them.   It simply means that I was taught how to have a few social graces and good manners.
 
Much like DD, though, I consider "respect" to be a completely internal process based within my own emotional responces to any given individual.  It has no weight, no redeeming social value, and can't particularly be Quantified except to myself.  It is an earned and learned set of deferential responces gained over time through the actions of the person that I feel that way towards.  It has less than nothing to do with their social status, self identification, or Their feelings towards ME.  It does not gain them a greater share of displayed manners or common polite courtesy. 

< Message edited by hizgeorgiapeach -- 6/30/2006 9:04:44 AM >

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RE: Common Courtesy - 6/30/2006 11:34:01 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I agree with you, common courtesy is different than respect. I do respect all people on some level for their humanity. I rarely show disrespect to anyone, or at least I am not trying to be disrespectful intentionally (although disrespect and respect are subjective terms).

To me respect and common courtesy go hand and hand. There are social ettiquette rules that govern common courtesy, and when we show respect for our fellow human being we extend common courtesy to them. Deference is a different thing, it is a giving way to another out of respect we feel for them. If you disrespect someone then you are not giving them the common courtesy you extend to all other people.

Basically I am saying the same thing as you I think... just slightly different view.

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RE: Common Courtesy - 6/30/2006 11:35:22 AM   
SilverWulf


Posts: 196
Joined: 4/7/2005
Status: offline 		Great topic.  To me, courtesy and respect are different animals who sometimes play together.

Holding the door for someone who is entering a building as I am leaving, thanking the waitress for filling my coffee cup, slowing slightly to allow someone to merge with traffic...  are all courtesy and will happen regardless of respect being present or not.

Respect is earned, and if lost, virtually impossible to regain.  I suppose it could be compared to trust.(not the same thing, obviously, but the same in how it's received)  Earning it requires proper consistent behavior over a period of time.  IMO, when meeting someone new they deserve courtesy and politeness and nothing more.  Nobody gets respect until it is earned.  Different levels of respect abound, of course.  I may respect 'Joe' for his ability to use a singletail, but have zero respect for him in other areas. 

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RE: Common Courtesy - 6/30/2006 12:13:25 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ArtimisBlack

What do you consider common courtesy? What do you consider a breach of it? In what ways is respect different from common courtesy?
 
I’ll start:
It’s common courtesy for someone to call if they are going to be late or not be able to come at all. If you just don’t show up no phone calls or anything, that’s a breach of common courtesy.
 
Respect is a little tricky. When I respect someone for them self or something they can do, it usually means I am willing to defer to them in that thing and trust their judgment. I have more faith in them then I do Joe-on-the-street. They have earned my respect by showing themselves worthy of it by being an exceptional person or being able to do exceptional things. In addition to showing them common courtesy I give them that deference and extra trust- that’s how I show my regard. Of course, everything does even out. Also taken into the measure of how much respect I show them is how much respect they show me and others. A rude person who can do amazing things will get my common courtesy, my deference in the subject of their expertise, but nothing more. I will have no faith in them elsewhere, because they haven’t shown themselves worthy of it.

Good question.  I was brought up by parents from the, as Tom Brokaw puts it, Greatest Generation.  My father and mother and my extended family taught me that courtesy is one of those things that separate us from the animals.  As someone else noted, it is the social lubricant that makes day-to-day interaction with people that much more pleasant.  When I was in grade school, we were taught to dance, how to hold a door for a lady, how to help a lady on with her coat and the girls were taught whatever they were being taught in the other classroom.  I was brought up that using "fuck", "shit", "goddamn" were not to be used as commonly acceptable ways of expressing myself, especially  in mixed company.  That addressing someone as "bastard" or "motherfucker" was a good way to get your face punched in as it not only showed the intelligence to come up with a suitable insult but also a lack of courtesy and a total lack of respect for the person you were speaking to and anyone else around.  Doing these things now is not an affectation for me...it is the way I was raised and a way I agree with.  To me, the waitress at the coffee shop deserves as much courtesy as the man who pays me $ 1,000.00 for my services as does the woman on her way into Penney's at the same time I am.

Respect.  I am another one who thinks respect is earned.  It comes in levels.  I can respect someone's knowledge about a particular subject and not respect anything else about him.  I can respect the way a woman cares for her children and not respect the way she treats the man/men/any other adults in her life.  When I say I respect someone, and mean it to be the whole person, then that person has shown me in several ways that they are deserving of that respect.  Can respect increase just because this person is my partner?  To an extent, yes.  I do know it has to be present before I would take someone on as a long-term partner.  I also know that it can be diminished by ongoing actions or words that run completely contrary to what had earned my initial respect.  For example;  I greatly admired one of my father's colleagues.  He was a great doctor: caring, intelligent, treated his patients as more than just his meal ticket.  About 15 years into Dad's practice (and this man's), I noted that my Dad had a change of heart regarding this man.  I wondered why and asked.  My father explained that this same man had become one of those practitioners who was now running patients through "more efficiently" (think assembly line), who was charging as much as the insurance companies would pay up to, and who had dumped the wife who helped him through college and now had the so-called "trophy" wife.  During the annual 2-week visit to this man's home, I had the opportunity to observe all these things.  Compared to the way my father practiced, I did lose respect for him.  Eventually, he came back to the way he'd started...but by then, many of his colleagues had little use for him.

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RE: Common Courtesy - 6/30/2006 12:23:13 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		I was providing a bit of guidance to a new male submissive at a party and I taught him a smattering of courtesy.

When addressing the top (used as a universal term) I always lock eyes with him/her/it and ignore whatever property they have no matter how hot.  In fact, I ignore their partners completely until introduced and after making nice I redirect my gaze back to the top.

The reason for this is it makes it quite clear that you aren't making nice just cause the dykes little girl is hot and wearing a ball gag and you could care less if she died but you got to fuck her submissive.  This one gets lots of "respect" points cause it takes training and they know it.

I think being polite in the classic sense of the word should be common courtesy, but so many things are upside down.  I don't stand to give a lady a seat, although I just might for a female dominant who I respected (there is that respect thing again).  I tend to have my submissive/s ask if they can get drinks/food for those around me but not always.

Problem with courtesy is that is set by the culture and our little S&M cultures vary a lot from place to place and from orientation to orientation.  I am curious to hear what others think on this subject.

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RE: Common Courtesy - 6/30/2006 12:26:54 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		There is a fundamental difference between courtesy and respect that is often no longer understood.  We can see that in the imprecise way these words are used, often interchangeably.

Courtesy is part of etiquette and good manners.  What is necessary to it is an awareness of others.  That is, in showing courtesy to another person you are giving evidence to the fact that you are both aware of them as a person and that the universe does NOT revolve soley around your own desires.  In short, courtesy requires an awareness of the needs and desires of others.  Demonstrating courtesy shows consideration for these same needs an desires.  A simple example being, if you have to cancel an appointment, you call to let the other person know.  Doing so shows you have an awareness and consideration for that person, that their time is valuable too.  Its really that simple.

Respect is something else entirely.  Respect is an awareness and appreciation of an individual for their personal achievements, ability, accomplishments, character, etc.  Respect can be for either good or bad qualities, and respect can also be assigned to an object.  For example.  I respect Leonardo da Vinci and Thomas Edison for their creativity and inventiveness.  I have a respect for guns because I appreciate the damage they can inflict.

In short... courtesy is always a consideration of someone, respect is an appreciation of someone or something.  It really is that simple. 

Given that, how to show courtesy should be relatively simple for anyone to work out, simply show consideration for the other person... which of course requires that you think about someone other than yourself.  That seems to be asking a lot of a great many people these days.  More's the pity.

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RE: Common Courtesy - 6/30/2006 1:14:29 PM   
DoctorDubious


Posts: 267
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom


.... Problem with courtesy is that is set by the culture and our little S&M cultures vary a lot from place to place and from orientation to orientation.  I am curious to hear what others think on this subject.



While I was workin' away on my day gig
trying, unsuccessfully, to come up with some solutions to
the fucked-up health insurance situation in the US....

.... my thoughts kept coming back to what's more important to me ... here at c-m

The theme of this thread is common courtesy,
and I guess it's just too obvious to notice
that common courtesy ....  like common sense .... isn't.

The point above about how courtesies vary
from culture to culture is an interesting one.

A Canadian Inuit might still offer you his 76 year old wife to fuck overnight
... as the gracious host he is, and as a gracious guest you might ______?

A Pashtun leader might offer you his 14 year old daugher
to fuck and marry, in that order... to build a business relationship
and as a savvy networker you might ______?

And in this morning's LA times, page B1, was the headline

Pair Admit Keeping Girl, 12, as a Slave

"The Irvine man and his ex-wife could each get
three years for a practice not unusual in Egypt."

Got it?  Not unusual in Egypt.
Egypt is one of the most-westernized Islamic countries in the world.

The story goes on to tell how children
are often kept as "maids" for the families of powerful men.
I can't imagine why they're generally young girls... can you?


.... just the opinion of this hooky-playing old goat

DD
PS... why I myself have had a little taste
of being culturally clumsy, right here on this forum...
I was the slap-ee, and am more used to bein' the slapper.
Didn't like it.  Never been able to like it.

PSS... for the next week or so in LA,
if your suburban neighbor offers you his 12 year old daughter,
you might be be better off to wait awhile and let the heat die down a tad

< Message edited by DoctorDubious -- 6/30/2006 1:23:54 PM >

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RE: Common Courtesy - 6/30/2006 1:15:47 PM   
zumala


Posts: 1121
Joined: 6/16/2005
Status: offline 		So far almost everyone has had the same jist for the two terms of 'courtesy' and 'respect'.  I personally agree with them.  I also feel that the lack of mere courtesy in the US is absolutely sickening.  People would as soon run you down with their shopping cart in the grocery store as look at you.
 
I am tempted to chastize Crappy just a little.   What, sir?  You don't give you seat to a lady (and that's okay), but what about a lady that's pregnant or 90 years old?  Not that a 90 year old man probably shouldn't be given a seat as well.  I think that above a certain age, a little bit more consideration should be accorded to people.  How about the 20 something who looks like she's in terrific shape... except for the cast on her left leg?
 
To sum it up, politeness, courtesy, and respect are not the exact same, but I suspect they're step-siblings.  I can definately see that the world would be a much nicer place to live in if people just made a little effort to look beyond themselves and exercise just a bit of polite courtesy.  I'm not yet 30, and I know how.  What is everyone else's excuse? 
 
zuma

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RE: Common Courtesy - 6/30/2006 1:31:23 PM   
ArtimisBlack


Posts: 154
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		What demonstrates courtosey to you? What is the least courteous thing you have ever seen/had dappen to you?

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RE: Common Courtesy - 6/30/2006 1:46:56 PM   
zumala


Posts: 1121
Joined: 6/16/2005
Status: offline 		I suppose you could define courtesy as 'thoughtful consideration' or 'social kindness'.  Any of those can occur if you take the time to look around yourself and actually see PEOPLE instead of human-shaped obsticals.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArtimisBlack

What demonstrates courtosey to you? What is the least courteous thing you have ever seen/had dappen to you?


Courtesy to me would be going out of your way to be polite and/or helpful to someone else.  For example, slowing to allow someone onto the highway.  Holding a door for a parent (gender here is irrelivent) trying to manuver a stroller.  Saying thank you to a waiter or waitress when they fill your glass.  Saying thank you means that you see them and you acknowledge their presence and their service.  They aren't droids with no feelings after all.
 
For lack of courtesy... drive on any highway in my city.  Be sure to have your seatbelt fastened and your insurance paid up.  You can expect to be tailed-gated so closely that you cannot see the front end of the vehicle behind you.  You might have a semi drift into your lane or even try to change lanes and nearly take off the front of your car.  A truck will cram itself in front of you when there is no room and then have to slam on his brakes so that... well, good luck missing him.  If you hit him it'll be your fault as far as the insurance company goes.  Oh... and never lose your temper and gesture at anyone else.  They might then attack you and start throwing things at you while you're driving.  Or they might just shoot you.
 
Or, you could walk into any grocery store.  Watch out for those shopping carts.  They're fast moving and the person pushing probably doesn't care that you're in front of them.  Don't expect to be able to move smoothly through the store.  People will stop right in front of you for a conversation and not give a rip that they are in your pathway.  As with driving a vehicle, expect cell phones attached to people's heads to lower their IQ and general awareness.  They will run into you, stop in front of you, or do any number of unexpected things.  Expect to hear SCREAMING young children.  The parents will do nothing to shut them up.  Expect young children to waddle along in front of you at a snail's pace - just like the adults do.  No one will teach them to get out of the way of on-coming traffic.
 
I could go on, but why?  You only have to step out into public to see lack of courtesy and the presence of rudeness.
 
zuma

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RE: Common Courtesy - 6/30/2006 2:19:05 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I like the words please and thank you (I use them, too). Not for every little exchange, so I guess that is still kind of a murky answer.

I've got this thing I just hate when other people do (I think it might be related to having mild to moderate OCD but am not sure - but it's bugged me ever since I was a little kid) -

I don't like it when I am on a sidewalk or in a grocery store and other people appear to be paying no attention to the fact anyone else has any personal space they might be fond of -they run into people with their carts, or appear to act like they might sometime soon - they act as if it is strange anyone else would be in the store (of course, being perfect, I never do this myself. Actually, I don't ever do it because I am just so paranoid about running into someone's cart). I know that's weird, but it is almost a borderline phobia.

-Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 6/30/2006 2:23:28 PM >

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RE: Common Courtesy - 6/30/2006 2:32:00 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline
quote:

What demonstrates courtosey to you?

 
Someone being polite, I would probably put it into the category of a personal self-discipline when it comes to dealing with others that is thoughtful and considerate taking the particular situation into account.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 



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