RE: War is Peace (Orwell, 1984)

RE: War is Peace (Orwell, 1984) (Full Version)

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DesideriScuri -> RE: War is Peace (Orwell, 1984) (9/3/2013 7:09:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen So in your opinion a man who wants to eradicate progressives, murder a film maker and a Congresswoman is not violent? What precisely would it take for him to be, in your opinion, advocating violence? I suppose you've never been so angry that you felt like choking someone (in a non-BDSM intent). Good on you. Advocating violence, imo, requires more than what Beck said. And, in the body of work that I have heard (admittedly, it's been a couple years since I've been a regular listener), his calls for non-violent (aka peaceful) protests were all I ever heard. That is advocating non-violence. He was calling for his listeners to not be violent. You've listened to Beck and didn't see through the fake, don't do anything violent" statements? Really? The guy spends hours each day, radio, formerly TV and now on his internet "channel" telling his audience how Obama and progressives are engaged in a conspiracy to destroy the republic and the American way of life that only he knows about and that they are mostly powerless to resist and you really think he is not encouraging his listeners to take violent action? What then do you think he expects? What would a rational human being expect from that situation? Everything anyone sees or hears is immediately filtered through our own prejudices, beliefs, etc. What you see as "fake" may not be seen as "fake" by others. I assume this is true regardless of the political leanings of the receiver or the presenter. That is, I can listen to Maddow and will likely interpret her musings differently than you would. Thus, we will disagree on this, and there is likely no way we'll ever see eye to eye. That is, until you take the blinders off and realize that my side is correct. [:D]

DomKen -> RE: War is Peace (Orwell, 1984) (9/3/2013 8:15:01 AM)
Has anyone ever tried to or actually taken violent action in response to anything Ms. Maddow has covered?

DesideriScuri -> RE: War is Peace (Orwell, 1984) (9/3/2013 8:17:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Has anyone ever tried to or actually taken violent action in response to anything Ms. Maddow has covered? No idea. My inclusion of her had to do with her being a high profile left-leaning show host. That was simply it. See what you did there, though? You read into what I wrote and came out with a different intent than the one intended.

tweakabelle -> RE: War is Peace (Orwell, 1984) (9/3/2013 10:09:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Has anyone ever tried to or actually taken violent action in response to anything Ms. Maddow has covered? No idea. My inclusion of her had to do with her being a high profile left-leaning show host. That was simply it. See what you did there, though? You read into what I wrote and came out with a different intent than the one intended. Touche DS! [sm=goodpost.gif]

DomKen -> RE: War is Peace (Orwell, 1984) (9/3/2013 11:49:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Has anyone ever tried to or actually taken violent action in response to anything Ms. Maddow has covered? No idea. My inclusion of her had to do with her being a high profile left-leaning show host. That was simply it. See what you did there, though? You read into what I wrote and came out with a different intent than the one intended. No. I simply asked a relevant question. Otherwise the comparison is invalid.

Kirata -> RE: War is Peace (Orwell, 1984) (9/3/2013 12:14:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen You've listened to Beck and didn't see through the fake, don't do anything violent" statements? Really? The guy spends hours each day, radio, formerly TV and now on his internet "channel" telling his audience how Obama and progressives are engaged in a conspiracy to destroy the republic and the American way of life that only he knows about and that they are mostly powerless to resist and you really think he is not encouraging his listeners to take violent action? What then do you think he expects? What would a rational human being expect from that situation? Well, when other persons and groups do that (replace "Obama and progressives" in the above to suit) it's because they want money. I'd go there first. K.

DesideriScuri -> RE: War is Peace (Orwell, 1984) (9/3/2013 1:45:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Has anyone ever tried to or actually taken violent action in response to anything Ms. Maddow has covered? No idea. My inclusion of her had to do with her being a high profile left-leaning show host. That was simply it. See what you did there, though? You read into what I wrote and came out with a different intent than the one intended. No. I simply asked a relevant question. Otherwise the comparison is invalid. Comparison? No. Example? Yes. The point I am making, is that the politics of the listener/viewer will filter all incoming information. That filter will also skew that information. What Beck, O'Reilly, Boortz (just read his name in another post), Maddow, Mathews, Olbermann, Moore, etc. say will be filtered by the receivers of that information. The political beliefs of that receiver will tend to alter the analysis of that information. This is the point I was making about you and me. What you see and hear in a particular presentation and what I see and hear in that same presentation very easily can be two completely different things. This is also why, in my Maddow example, I used you and me, specifically, rather than referring to general right/left political members.

DomKen -> RE: War is Peace (Orwell, 1984) (9/3/2013 5:02:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Has anyone ever tried to or actually taken violent action in response to anything Ms. Maddow has covered? No idea. My inclusion of her had to do with her being a high profile left-leaning show host. That was simply it. See what you did there, though? You read into what I wrote and came out with a different intent than the one intended. No. I simply asked a relevant question. Otherwise the comparison is invalid. Comparison? No. Example? Yes. The point I am making, is that the politics of the listener/viewer will filter all incoming information. That filter will also skew that information. What Beck, O'Reilly, Boortz (just read his name in another post), Maddow, Mathews, Olbermann, Moore, etc. say will be filtered by the receivers of that information. The political beliefs of that receiver will tend to alter the analysis of that information. This is the point I was making about you and me. What you see and hear in a particular presentation and what I see and hear in that same presentation very easily can be two completely different things. This is also why, in my Maddow example, I used you and me, specifically, rather than referring to general right/left political members. So for you a right winger isn't advocating violence unless he explicitly says "go kill people." Is that your position? Because any left winger using the level of violent rhetoric Beck does would never have my support

DesideriScuri -> RE: War is Peace (Orwell, 1984) (9/3/2013 5:28:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen So for you a right winger isn't advocating violence unless he explicitly says "go kill people." Is that your position? Because any left winger using the level of violent rhetoric Beck does would never have my support Another failed analysis and bullshit claim. I am finding it more and more difficult to actually get into a discussion with you, Ken. Be well.

DomKen -> RE: War is Peace (Orwell, 1984) (9/3/2013 8:23:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen So for you a right winger isn't advocating violence unless he explicitly says "go kill people." Is that your position? Because any left winger using the level of violent rhetoric Beck does would never have my support Another failed analysis and bullshit claim. I am finding it more and more difficult to actually get into a discussion with you, Ken. Be well. I'm trying to understand your position and trying to pin you down on the whole false equivalency of claiming there is some one on the left like Beck.

DesideriScuri -> RE: War is Peace (Orwell, 1984) (9/3/2013 8:35:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen So for you a right winger isn't advocating violence unless he explicitly says "go kill people." Is that your position? Because any left winger using the level of violent rhetoric Beck does would never have my support Another failed analysis and bullshit claim. I am finding it more and more difficult to actually get into a discussion with you, Ken. Be well. I'm trying to understand your position and trying to pin you down on the whole false equivalency of claiming there is some one on the left like Beck. You don't give a rat's ass about my position, so long as you can make it look like it isn't the same as yours. And, just to show you that you don't give a rat's ass, you - again - make a claim that I'm trying to show that there is someone on the left that is like Beck, in the manner you want to show him. I'm not trying to do that. I've said it a couple times now. You continue to ignore that. This whole, "I'm trying to understand" schtick is horseshit. You know it. I know it. You know I know it. Just go on about your business, Ken. You don't give a fuck about actually discussing anything. Be well.

DomKen -> RE: War is Peace (Orwell, 1984) (9/3/2013 9:31:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen So for you a right winger isn't advocating violence unless he explicitly says "go kill people." Is that your position? Because any left winger using the level of violent rhetoric Beck does would never have my support Another failed analysis and bullshit claim. I am finding it more and more difficult to actually get into a discussion with you, Ken. Be well. I'm trying to understand your position and trying to pin you down on the whole false equivalency of claiming there is some one on the left like Beck. You don't give a rat's ass about my position, so long as you can make it look like it isn't the same as yours. And, just to show you that you don't give a rat's ass, you - again - make a claim that I'm trying to show that there is someone on the left that is like Beck, in the manner you want to show him. I'm not trying to do that. I've said it a couple times now. You continue to ignore that. This whole, "I'm trying to understand" schtick is horseshit. You know it. I know it. You know I know it. Just go on about your business, Ken. You don't give a fuck about actually discussing anything. Be well. Why get angry if you can actually defend your position? What actually constitutes advocating violence in your opinion? You say Beck doesn't but reject that it is only a declarative "go kill people" so where is your line because I cannot see any way to draw such a line where Beck is not over it. And my position is clearly different from yours. I do not support people who advocate violence and have no problem identifying people who do so.

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