RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive



Message

jc26 -> RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (8/31/2013 8:09:08 PM)

It is probably some vanity that halts me in being 100% direct and open about it. But no he is very sweet and not degrading or cruel at all... and as for the BJ thing, I pretty much do that already. I honestly think it is laziness and lack of interest. I initiate sex 99% of the time. And he doesn't masturbate or watch any porn. SO it's just hard to put my kinky wants out there blatantly. I've mentioned things here and there and they've gotten dismissed or laughed off as a joke or something...And you all are right its totally my fault for being shy about it and scared BUT I was just looking for encouragement is all.. NOT criticisms =(



njlauren -> RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (8/31/2013 9:41:33 PM)

jc-I can understand how hard it is to talk about these things, how hard it is to tell someone you love something about yourself that is different, not 'socially acceptable' or whatever. There is the fear of rejection, of them think you are nuts, etc, and it is understandable. And yeah, in theory, being married X years, being together a long time, is supposed to make it you can talk about anything, but in reality it doesn't always work like that.

Okay, so how do you get up the nerve? Others are right, you don't build Rome in a day, you don't go from a vanilla relationship to a D/s one over night, and it is something IME that if it is going to happen, is going to evolve. Part of it is expressing your needs, maybe working up to explaining that it turns you on to have him control you in bed, in effect making it a game, keep it light to start with and see what happens. Over time, if it looks like he is interested, slowly talk about making it more and more a part of your lives. Big thing is getting him to talk, if he has questions,and more importantly, how he is feeling, what he finds works and doesn't. In the end, it could be you find he simply isn't dominant in that way, that it doesn't work, but if you think about it, it isn't going to be any worse than what you have today, if you do it and he doesn't like it, you at least tried.

One suggestion, you may want to talk to a knowledgeable therapist, who may be able to help you figure out how to broach this with your husband, or maybe even help you guys work things out, a number of people including myself found that valuable (well, in our case, the kink/BD/SM etc stuff turned out not to be our major issues, but it is why we started therapy).

I wish you luck, this kind of thing does happen, but it takes a bit of work and also in many ways a bit of luck, too , that your husband discovers this works for him. One of the biggest pieces of advice is finding out what his personality is and figuring out what he gets out of it; even if he is not 'truly dominant' it is possible he might get off on making you happy, that happens, too, he sees you are happy and that is enough to make him take on the role, rather than an inner need to be dominating (I have seen couples like this). I wish you luck, hope it works out!



MrMathews -> RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (9/1/2013 1:35:22 AM)

@incubusboy: I thought your post really nailed it. I've always thought of the Vanilla to BDSM spectrum more in terms of what people want to do, but actually looking at it in terms of how you go about getting what you want makes a lot of sense too.

Then I read the OP's reply and my heart went out to her - having a fundamental need of this kind, not having it met, and seeing no way to get it met is a very hard place to be. Shyness may be pure vanity, but being scared of rejection is not. And given how taboo this stuff still is for a lot of people that fear is legitimate, even in a true marriage.

Sadly, I don't see any easy way out of this.

@OP: in your most recent reply you said:

I've mentioned things here and there and they've gotten dismissed or laughed off as a joke or something.

I interpret this in one of two ways:

a) Your husband is getting all the BJs he can handle and doesn't want anything else and ultimately isn't that bothered that you're not getting your needs met. Some people are selfish and like people that serve their needs, but it's a one way street. Harsh, but possibly true. And if it is, my advice is get out now. Not because of questions of sexuality, but because it will destroy you if you stay.

b) Your husband does care, but he feels so uncomfortable with this stuff that he blows it off. Now that may be the case and if it is, the good advice you've already received, applied patiently, may just change things. But I can't say I'm hopeful for you and I'll explain why...

...a long time ago I had a girlfriend and we had lots of vanilla sex and great communication, and one day I plucked up the courage to tell her about my spanking fantasies. She was absolutely sweet and ready to give it a go. So we did...once. Why? Because it seemed utterly pointless, and somewhat ridiculous, to me, to spank someone who wasn't getting off on it. Now obviously that is all about how this stuff works for me, but it seems to me you are in a similar dynamic. If you were satisfied to simply submit and serve and nothing more, you wouldn't be on here seeking advice. Clearly you want more. I'm not hopeful that you can find his inner-Dom because my guess is if he had one it would have come into the open by now. Perhaps, you can get him (as njlauren said) to Dom you to keep you happy, but my guess is you wouldn't be happy, for the same reasons I wasn't satisfied by spanking my compliant girlfriend. In my experience what we do is of marginal importance in comparison with 'why' we do it. It is much more important to be compatible at that level.

Well, there it is. I went off on one. I'm going to post it because I took the trouble to write it, but I'll take no offense if you dismiss my ravings.

I wish you well in your journey.



orgasmdenial12 -> RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (9/1/2013 3:27:50 AM)

quote:

I wouldn't say that was good advice.

I know in my case (and I'm sure in Jeff's case too), that would be a deal-breaker.
It would be a case of 'don't let the door hit your ass on the way out".


That's okay, because, believe it or not, not everyone wants to be in a relationship with or like Jeff's. :-)

In my experience it's better to work at a relationship and try to make it work, rather than anticipating failure and giving up before you've even started. I doubt the OP's partner is so fragile that he cannot handle a little playful loss of submission, according to him he doesn't even want it, so if the OP can make him see that he likes and values it domestically, sexually and romantically, then it may be a win/win for them both.



orgasmdenial12 -> RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (9/1/2013 3:31:25 AM)

quote:

I would say then that your only choice is to talk to him about what you want and hope that he understands but be aware, if someone has to constantly tell you to do something, after awhile they're gonna get very frustrated and aggravated by it.


I just want to point out that, while this is probably true of many Doms, it isn't true for them all. Some Doms love micromanaging, they love the act of giving orders, even where the submissive knows what they need to do and doesn't need to be told. I know micromanaging is a dirty word in BDSM these days, which is why I wanted to offer a differnet, positive perspective on it. It can be a very satisfying and enfolding experience for both partners :-)

But yes, a great many Doms dislike it, so it's probably appropriate advice for the OP.



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (9/1/2013 3:38:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jc26

It is probably some vanity that halts me in being 100% direct and open about it. But no he is very sweet and not degrading or cruel at all... and as for the BJ thing, I pretty much do that already. I honestly think it is laziness and lack of interest. I initiate sex 99% of the time. And he doesn't masturbate or watch any porn. SO it's just hard to put my kinky wants out there blatantly. I've mentioned things here and there and they've gotten dismissed or laughed off as a joke or something...And you all are right its totally my fault for being shy about it and scared BUT I was just looking for encouragement is all.. NOT criticisms =(

Unfortunately jc, on a forum you are not going to be molly-coddled and told only what you want to hear - you'll get both sides, including the criticism.

Looking at this reply and also with another of yours at post#13, that tells me a lot about your man.
He seems quite content being strictly 'nilla and happy with his sex life.
In fact, he's so content, he doesn't even bother with porn!
His response with the odd mentions you've made in the past also tells me he really isn't interested in kinky stuff.
The sheer fact that you need to be told what to do and his 'natural' dominance hasn't shown at all tells me he isn't likely to change to be the person you are wanting him to be.

Even if you managed to twist his arm and get him to do some of the things you want of him, his heart isn't going to be in it.
As MrMathews pointed out, someone who is just compliant but not getting anything out of it soon becomes nothing more than a chore and boredom.

I think you are going to have to face up to the fact that your man isn't what you want him to be and you aren't likely to change him to fit your needs.
Look back at LW's post#12 - I think they are your realistic choices.
You are going to have to decide which is more important; your kink or your marriage.



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (9/1/2013 3:49:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

quote:

I wouldn't say that was good advice.

I know in my case (and I'm sure in Jeff's case too), that would be a deal-breaker.
It would be a case of 'don't let the door hit your ass on the way out".


That's okay, because, believe it or not, not everyone wants to be in a relationship with or like Jeff's. :-)

In my experience it's better to work at a relationship and try to make it work, rather than anticipating failure and giving up before you've even started. I doubt the OP's partner is so fragile that he cannot handle a little playful loss of submission, according to him he doesn't even want it, so if the OP can make him see that he likes and values it domestically, sexually and romantically, then it may be a win/win for them both.

Maybe you missed the point.

OP has tried suggesting a few things and he's blown her off and dismissed them.
Even after a number of years, he hasn't shown any incling of dominance.
OP's partner just doesn't seem kink-minded at all in any way whatsoever.

She's tried a few things and it's failed miserably - that's why she came here.
Theoretically, yes, you should be able to work with your partner and resolve these sort of issues.
In OP's case, she is extrememly timid and her partner has shown no interest at all.
In your own words you have said that he doesn't even want it. That should tell you something.
Not everyone is wired for kink so attempting to get them to do it could be disasterous.
I don't think it's worth pushing the issue too much further otherwise the relationship is going to break down.



DesFIP -> RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (9/1/2013 7:03:00 AM)

Probably but I think it will break down eventually anyway. Because the op is 25 years old and sexually unsatisfied. You really think she's ready to write off her sex life for the next 70 years? I don't.

So I don't think she has anything to lose by talking freely. By starting it with "please don't laugh at me. Please listen seriously because this matters to me".

As far as him doing it for her? So what? I bet there are things he does for her now which only give him the pleasure of seeing her happy. Like garage sales or going out to Thai restaurants when he prefers Italian. So why does it matter if it's sexual things he indulges her in?



littlewonder -> RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (9/1/2013 7:44:19 AM)

because next to financial arguments, sexual incompatibility is usuallly the 2nd reason couples divorce. Going out to dinner at his place even though you don't like it may be a few times, not very often and not all that important, while sex for most couples is a big deal and having to constantly have to change the way you like sex is going to eventually wear one or both of them.



JeffBC -> RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (9/1/2013 10:37:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jc26
I guess the issue is that I am not being TOLD to do it all?I just do it naturally? I'm not sure. and Yes definitely the kinky sex is a HUGE aspect for me. I'd never do #1 or #3 in your list because of sexual satisfaction. I am working on attempting to vocalize my needs but as I said before I am super shy about it.

Well, lets assume he loves you. I gotta tell you that if Carol up and came out with some big dark secret that involved me failing to please her as a lover for a long time I'd be pissed as hell. OK, I'd control that anger because I understand how difficult these things can be but internally I'd be wondering, "So... how long were you planning on letting this go on?" Ok granted, the word "love" for me sort of precludes the answer "I don't care what my partner wants." But man, if I love someone then I feel sort of obligated to get them what they want. I'm not a sadist. I can guarantee you I would be if Carol needed that. Does this guy love you? If so, how can he possibly justify the "I don't care what it takes to make her happy." line of reasoning? -- or is it simply you haven't told him?

quote:

Thanks JeffBC for sharing your story, It sounds like it all fell into place for you guys. That is so fortuitous for you both =)

You're welcome. I think you're only partly correct with the "fortuitous" thing though. I don't lean on luck much. We happened to be a good fit for an authority structure but the rest wasn't fortuitous at all. It's the results of having a great marriage where two people prioritize "us" over "me". It's hard work and frequently a pain in the ass because it requires a lot of introspection. I like to say to people, "Sure you can have the fairy tale. But you need to build it one brick at a time."



jc26 -> RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (9/1/2013 2:41:06 PM)

Thank you so much for all the advice, and I totally get that i won't be coddled on a forum I guess I just assumed (silly me) that like, other submissive women would answer? does that make sense? but I am glad that so many varying personalities decided to take the time to write. I really connect with what NJLauren said and I've contemplated seeking a sex therapist for myself actually. Also MrMathews you also made a great point. if he did it just for me, that would be so sweet but I think I'd have to feel like he was into it for me to be truly happy with how things play out. We did have a little bit of a break through this weekend, I had mentioned that I like to feel how strong he is and other things like that and he sort of grabbed me and tossed me around a little bit. So I think coaxing his ego might have helped a little?

I also figure that MAYBE "luck" is on my side alittle? we've been together pretty much my whole adult life. He is 14 yrs older than I am. So I guess I always figured that he'd have to be somewhat "Dom" to want a so much younger wife?

Orgasmdenial12 post #24 you hit the nail on the head there! Thats exactly what I am hoping for a Win-Win =)

Also i'd be happy to answer a question or 2 if that helped the advice portion of this whole thing?



JeffBC -> RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (9/1/2013 3:41:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jc26
Thank you so much for all the advice, and I totally get that i won't be coddled on a forum I guess I just assumed (silly me) that like, other submissive women would answer? does that make sense? but I am glad that so many varying personalities decided to take the time to write. I really connect with what NJLauren said and I've contemplated seeking a sex therapist for myself actually. Also MrMathews you also made a great point.

Yup, we all chip in and you've found the secret success. You know from our side we're all just throwing spitballs at the wall hoping one sticks. It's really hard to know enough to answer wisely over text like this. So you read the multitude of responses and you find the ones "right for you" and you remind yourself "the other people weren't wrong so much as making the best guesses they could with such limited information."

quote:

if he did it just for me, that would be so sweet but I think I'd have to feel like he was into it for me to be truly happy with how things play out.

You know there's another option between "just for you" and "into it for himself". I do not understand why people gloss over this option constantly but there's this thing call "an acquired taste". I didn't used to like certain foods. Now I do... for real. I don't eat them to humor Carol. I learned to like them. This is a common human experience. The ways you can reinforce that are pretty well understood.

Take a look at my statement "If Carol needed me to be a sadist I would be." I didn't mean I would act like it. I meant I'd dig into myself and I'd find some bit of snarly energy that went well with fingers wrapped through hair and the command "blow me bitch" and then I'd cultivate that like a spark in tinder. Even better, the positive reinforcement is virtually guaranteed since it carries it's own reward... pleasing Carol. So that spark would grow into it's own self-sustaining flame over time and I'd be a sadist.. for true and for real. But yes, for a while there'd be some "fake it till I made it" going on and I'd be hoping Carol would be working with me to get through that phase. I'd hope that rather than seeing it as "artificial" she'd see it as "transitional".

quote:

We did have a little bit of a break through this weekend, I had mentioned that I like to feel how strong he is and other things like that and he sort of grabbed me and tossed me around a little bit. So I think coaxing his ego might have helped a little?

OK, wild guess here but I suspect "ego" isn't so much the problem as "permission". You women don't really understand this but let's assume that you were a male who was raised like a decent human being. You've had it drilled into you "Don't hit women" over and over again and with very good reason. Now suddenly some woman wants you to hit her. The problem is YOU can see inside your own head and YOU know that this is perfectly OK. He cannot. So what he needs is positive feedback. When he "grabbed you and tossed you around a bit" I would've suggested feedback along the lines of "Oh Dear! That made me a little wet <laugh>" That way, he does something relatively "safe" and he gets the feedback that it was good. Over time he will push boundaries.



jc26 -> RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (9/1/2013 6:24:12 PM)

Very interesting point JeffBC about "transitioning" rather than call it artificial. I think there could definitely be a middle ground inbetween full on born to be full on Dominant by nature and faking it so my wife is happy. I told him afterward how much I enjoyed it so I really hope that it prompts him to try more. Although, I've dropped subtle hints for probably 2 years... I am going to stay positive though and very much appreciate all the different points of view you guys are giving me :)



lilcracker -> RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (9/2/2013 5:08:46 AM)

I met a vanilla person and it has been successful...we are approaching our one year anniversary in a few days (and yep we live together). I used to be one of those who said I could not would not ever consider a vanilla partner. He does have a strong dominant personality but more than that, he is one of the nicest fellows I have ever come across. Recently we explored spanking because I like it. He has stated to me if anyone ever told him he could be turned on by spanking someone he would have laughed, but now he loves it.



JeffBC -> RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (9/3/2013 8:10:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jc26
Very interesting point JeffBC about "transitioning" rather than call it artificial.

Well, to call it artificial is to doom it to failure from the very beginning so I'm not sure why anyone would even bother.

Good luck to you two. My own firmly held believe is that very little is impossible to the couple operating as a tight team.



Dyfrynt -> RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (9/4/2013 2:21:53 PM)

OP, think first about your relationship right now. It is rarely spoken about, but true never the less, that in vanilla relationships there tends to be a dominant personality and a submissive one. A lot of times it is hard to tell who is who; others it is immediately obvious. What is the power structure between you and your husband right now? That will tell you a lot about the potential or lack thereof to move into more kink related activities.



JeffBC -> RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (9/4/2013 2:24:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dyfrynt
OP, think first about your relationship right now. It is rarely spoken about, but true never the less, that in vanilla relationships there tends to be a dominant personality and a submissive one. A lot of times it is hard to tell who is who; others it is immediately obvious. What is the power structure between you and your husband right now? That will tell you a lot about the potential or lack thereof to move into more kink related activities.

Excellent point if OP can look past her desires to see the actual power structure rather than the desired one -- not an easy task.



peppermint -> RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (9/4/2013 7:11:38 PM)

I knew of a couple who had been married for many many years. They both dreamed of a kinky type of relationship. Finally, after many years they talked about it and were stunned that their partner was wanting exactly the same things. They became real leaders in their local community.




DesFIP -> RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (9/5/2013 9:47:06 AM)

Subtle hints don't work on guys.

Telling him one time that you really loved it when he tossed you around also isn't enough. Now, over the next three or four weeks, mention numerous times how hot it made you when he did that. And that you can't stop thinking about it. And next time could he please do it even longer and harder.

Use and, don't use but. But is negative, and is positive. You want this to be a positive for him. You don't want to be criticizing him or he will back off.

He's nearly 40 years old and for every single day of those 40 years, he's been told that only abusive monsters hit women and order them around. It will, and should, take months to begin to feel comfortable doing these things. And it will require you giving lots of positive feedback and asking for more. There's a hell of a lot of conditioning he has to overcome. Plus you've been thinking about this for years and he never has. So he's five years minimum behind you. That's a lot to catch up on.



JeffBC -> RE: success in finding BDSM through vanilla (9/5/2013 9:55:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Telling him one time that you really loved it when he tossed you around also isn't enough. Now, over the next three or four weeks, mention numerous times how hot it made you when he did that. And that you can't stop thinking about it. And next time could he please do it even longer and harder.

... and don't forget to include all the body gestures that would make the words believable. He's going to start with a serious lack of belief here. I'd strongly recommend making sure the statement "it made me hot" was backed up with lots of evidence. I'd generally dress a bit sexier. I'd be more engaged at the dinner table. I'd bring up the event periodically... and ideally rub up against him while I was fondly reminiscing about it. The guy will try to refuse to believe. The woman must make him believe -- for the reasons you indicate below...

quote:

He's nearly 40 years old and for every single day of those 40 years, he's been told that only abusive monsters hit women and order them around. It will, and should, take months to begin to feel comfortable doing these things. And it will require you giving lots of positive feedback and asking for more. There's a hell of a lot of conditioning he has to overcome. Plus you've been thinking about this for years and he never has. So he's five years minimum behind you. That's a lot to catch up on.

Very astute point.



Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875