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RE: President Obama Looks to Congress Now On Syria - 9/1/2013 12:51:04 AM   
joether


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I believe all of you have not stop and thought through the President's actions. He made a very brilliant political move in dealing with the GOP and those Tea Party losers. He tested the waters about a strike. The Republicans in Congress started shouting out that he needed their approval; going to far as to threaten him with impeachment if they weren't given control of the final decision. The president does not need Congress's Approval on this unless it leads to a very long conflict (i.e. the Iraq War with G.W. Bush).

The President turns a no-win situation, politically speaking, into a 'call the Republican's Bluff'. In essence, they now own the problem whether they want to or not. Before he made this decision, the Republicans were ready to act in one of two ways:

A ) If the President decided to attack Syria, the Republicans would have bashed him non-stop until the election for having done it and being against the action.
B ) If the President decided not to attack Syria, the Republicans would have bashed him non-stop until the election for not having done something.

So the President went to Congress and allow them to decide. Which makes those Republicans whom bitched last week for this specific action look like fools. Even worst that they can not thank the President for this action if there tweets are any indication. That just shows he called their bluff. So what is the no-win situation now for the Republicans that allows the President to look good politically?

1 ) The Republicans authorize the President to take military action. If it is successful, everyone will remember it was the President's idea to ask Congress (even though he didn't have to) in the first place. Even more so that Republicans actually got something accomplished in Congress given their 15 successful votes on bills this year (normally its 190-260)!

2 ) The Republicans authorize the President to take military action. The whole thing goes south faster than you can say "Hillary has two terms in the White House"! The President asked Congress, and Republicans responded with the course of action. The GOP is looked upon as foolish and stupid to having taken this course of action.

3 ) The Republicans do not authorize the military action. Either because they came to an agreement or failed to do even that! It sends a message to every future evil person with WMDs that the USA will not deal with them swiftly and completely. In addition, the rest of the world takes an even more diminished view of America being a good place to visit, spend money or invest. Oh, and they'll be responsible if Syria uses ANOTHER chemical weapon's attack.



< Message edited by joether -- 9/1/2013 12:52:08 AM >

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: President Obama Looks to Congress Now On Syria - 9/1/2013 1:20:20 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
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Bingo.

<tips hat>

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: President Obama Looks to Congress Now On Syria - 9/1/2013 1:43:15 AM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I know he's convinced that the Assad regime used the chem weapons. I just don't know, though. It seems way too early for that determination, imo. Too many conflicting reports.





Do you have access to the intel reports that the Prez is using?


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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: President Obama Looks to Congress Now On Syria - 9/1/2013 5:25:37 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
Well... is he calling for a joint session of Congress and asking them to declare war on Syria?


Please... speak right up?

I didn't think so.

If the President does that and the nation declares war, I shall support the war effort.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

However, the President isn't doing anything of the sort.



Still digging a hole for yourself then ? Care to explain how the two posts YOU made actually differ in meaning ?

Why not just accept you made two contradicting posts about the President. Far wiser than getting pissy because you got caught out.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: President Obama Looks to Congress Now On Syria - 9/1/2013 5:35:30 AM   
chatterbox24


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I am so sorry about your son Daddysatyr. I thank him for fighting for our freedoms and you for creating a son who did.

There is one good thing about being all over the map. If you want to take a trip, studying the atlas, will help give you the best route possible. I am proud the president is talking with congress.

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: President Obama Looks to Congress Now On Syria - 9/1/2013 5:48:04 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

I'll be composing my letters to the California Senators tomorrow (for all the good they'll do with those two )

At least you have senators to write to.

It seems to me the Founding Fathers had something to say about being taxed without representation in the taxing body.



They also had something to say about creating a Capitol City. See Residence Act of 1790 and An Act Concerning the District of Columbia 1801.

Maryland would be more than willing to get her land back and the tax revenues that go with it though...and then Washington, MD would have it's voting members of Congress.

Best check with Maryland about that. When I lived in DC the Maryland state government explicitly said they don't want the district back.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: President Obama Looks to Congress Now On Syria - 9/1/2013 5:50:38 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
I believe all of you have not stop and thought through the President's actions. He made a very brilliant political move in dealing with the GOP and those Tea Party losers. He tested the waters about a strike. The Republicans in Congress started shouting out that he needed their approval; going to far as to threaten him with impeachment if they weren't given control of the final decision. The president does not need Congress's Approval on this unless it leads to a very long conflict (i.e. the Iraq War with G.W. Bush).
The President turns a no-win situation, politically speaking, into a 'call the Republican's Bluff'. In essence, they now own the problem whether they want to or not. Before he made this decision, the Republicans were ready to act in one of two ways:
A ) If the President decided to attack Syria, the Republicans would have bashed him non-stop until the election for having done it and being against the action.
B ) If the President decided not to attack Syria, the Republicans would have bashed him non-stop until the election for not having done something.
So the President went to Congress and allow them to decide. Which makes those Republicans whom bitched last week for this specific action look like fools. Even worst that they can not thank the President for this action if there tweets are any indication. That just shows he called their bluff. So what is the no-win situation now for the Republicans that allows the President to look good politically?
1 ) The Republicans authorize the President to take military action. If it is successful, everyone will remember it was the President's idea to ask Congress (even though he didn't have to) in the first place. Even more so that Republicans actually got something accomplished in Congress given their 15 successful votes on bills this year (normally its 190-260)!


How is this a no-win for the GOP? They demanded Obama come to them for AUMF prior to action. He did. The mission is successful. President Obama and Democrats can tell the tale as it was Obama calling their bluff and the GOP bending to his will. The GOP can tell the tale as it was their forcing Obama to follow the Constitution (regardless of whether or not you believe it was necessary, this will still be the claim).

quote:

2 ) The Republicans authorize the President to take military action. The whole thing goes south faster than you can say "Hillary has two terms in the White House"! The President asked Congress, and Republicans responded with the course of action. The GOP is looked upon as foolish and stupid to having taken this course of action.
quote:



The GOP isn't giving the course of action, but authorizing the President to use our Armed Forces. If the mission is a failure, it won't be the GOP that gets the blame. It will be the creators of the military strategy/plan we used. None of our elected leaders will likely be in charge of creating that. How is it that the GOP would be to blame anyway (considering that there will likely be Democrats also voting in support of authorization)? Giving Obama the green light to act isn't forcing Obama to act. He will still have the choice to act or not. If it goes bad, how does it bypass the Democrats and President Obama and fall on the GOP?

quote:

3 ) The Republicans do not authorize the military action. Either because they came to an agreement or failed to do even that! It sends a message to every future evil person with WMDs that the USA will not deal with them swiftly and completely. In addition, the rest of the world takes an even more diminished view of America being a good place to visit, spend money or invest. Oh, and they'll be responsible if Syria uses ANOTHER chemical weapon's attack.


According to Obama, he has all the authority he needs for military action. If the GOP does not authorize and President Obama does not use the authority he claims he has, then he'll also be sending that message, won't he?

You also forgot one:
4) The GOP does not authorize military action against the Assad regime. It turns out that the rebels were the ones to blame for the explosions. The GOP did the right thing. If Obama directs military action in defiance of the GOP's refusal, he'll have attacked the regime for using chemical weapons they didn't use, not punishing the actual ones responsible. That would also send the message that you can use WMD's and the US will not deal with you swiftly and completely as long as you can control who the US thinks did it.




_____________________________

What I support:

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  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
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  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: President Obama Looks to Congress Now On Syria - 9/1/2013 6:00:33 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I know he's convinced that the Assad regime used the chem weapons. I just don't know, though. It seems way too early for that determination, imo. Too many conflicting reports.

Do you have access to the intel reports that the Prez is using?


The media, as has been posted, is showing the UN investigation team is leaning towards the rebels being behind it (they do admit that their evidence isn't conclusive yet). Now, Obama is basing his determination on CIA intel and interviews from locals. The UN team is basing it's determination on having investigated the blast zone(s) and interviews from locals. There is also a report that one of the rebel groups is admitting that it was the rebels.

I am not saying the President is wrong. I'm saying I don't know that he's right. Considering I believed W, way back when, I'm much more skeptical today. Even if it turns out I was wrong, at least I would have been wrong in a way that was "safer."


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: President Obama Looks to Congress Now On Syria - 9/1/2013 6:05:57 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I know he's convinced that the Assad regime used the chem weapons. I just don't know, though. It seems way too early for that determination, imo. Too many conflicting reports.

Do you have access to the intel reports that the Prez is using?


The media, as has been posted, is showing the UN investigation team is leaning towards the rebels being behind it (they do admit that their evidence isn't conclusive yet). Now, Obama is basing his determination on CIA intel and interviews from locals. The UN team is basing it's determination on having investigated the blast zone(s) and interviews from locals. There is also a report that one of the rebel groups is admitting that it was the rebels.

I am not saying the President is wrong. I'm saying I don't know that he's right. Considering I believed W, way back when, I'm much more skeptical today. Even if it turns out I was wrong, at least I would have been wrong in a way that was "safer."


The problem is where would the rebels have gotten a sarin artillery shell? You don't just whip up high purity sarin in that quantity in a small lab.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: President Obama Looks to Congress Now On Syria - 9/1/2013 6:37:40 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I know he's convinced that the Assad regime used the chem weapons. I just don't know, though. It seems way too early for that determination, imo. Too many conflicting reports.

Do you have access to the intel reports that the Prez is using?

The media, as has been posted, is showing the UN investigation team is leaning towards the rebels being behind it (they do admit that their evidence isn't conclusive yet). Now, Obama is basing his determination on CIA intel and interviews from locals. The UN team is basing it's determination on having investigated the blast zone(s) and interviews from locals. There is also a report that one of the rebel groups is admitting that it was the rebels.
I am not saying the President is wrong. I'm saying I don't know that he's right. Considering I believed W, way back when, I'm much more skeptical today. Even if it turns out I was wrong, at least I would have been wrong in a way that was "safer."

The problem is where would the rebels have gotten a sarin artillery shell? You don't just whip up high purity sarin in that quantity in a small lab.


Saudi Arabia, perhaps?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: President Obama Looks to Congress Now On Syria - 9/1/2013 6:46:02 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I know he's convinced that the Assad regime used the chem weapons. I just don't know, though. It seems way too early for that determination, imo. Too many conflicting reports.

Do you have access to the intel reports that the Prez is using?

The media, as has been posted, is showing the UN investigation team is leaning towards the rebels being behind it (they do admit that their evidence isn't conclusive yet). Now, Obama is basing his determination on CIA intel and interviews from locals. The UN team is basing it's determination on having investigated the blast zone(s) and interviews from locals. There is also a report that one of the rebel groups is admitting that it was the rebels.
I am not saying the President is wrong. I'm saying I don't know that he's right. Considering I believed W, way back when, I'm much more skeptical today. Even if it turns out I was wrong, at least I would have been wrong in a way that was "safer."

The problem is where would the rebels have gotten a sarin artillery shell? You don't just whip up high purity sarin in that quantity in a small lab.


Saudi Arabia, perhaps?


I can find nothing indicating SA has ever had any chemical weapons. So until I do I remain very skeptical.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: President Obama Looks to Congress Now On Syria - 9/1/2013 6:52:00 AM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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Yeah, that's just fucking brilliant, Joether. A question of whether our nation should be getting involved in a civil war fought between a brutal dicatator and Al Qaeda shouldn't be considered in any frame other than of strict partisan gamesmanship...

You sicken me.

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: President Obama Looks to Congress Now On Syria - 9/1/2013 7:04:31 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri



I am not saying the President is wrong. I'm saying I don't know that he's right. Considering I believed W, way back when, I'm much more skeptical today. Even if it turns out I was wrong, at least I would have been wrong in a way that was "safer."



Ah, well I have to admit to believing Blair, so you have me on that one!

I have to concede that we should always be sceptical.


_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: President Obama Looks to Congress Now On Syria - 9/1/2013 7:08:33 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
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From: California, USA
Status: offline
Oh FFS.

Bush was looking for an excuse on Iraq from before ever taking office, and the British were a lapdog. How did people not know this?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: President Obama Looks to Congress Now On Syria - 9/1/2013 7:10:23 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I can find nothing indicating SA has ever had any chemical weapons. So until I do I remain very skeptical.


I understand. I'm not saying Assad didn't use the chemical weapons. I'm not saying the rebels did. I'm saying there is too much conflicting information/reports, imo.

That's where my problem is. I'd much rather see us not act than act against the "wrong side," so to speak.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: President Obama Looks to Congress Now On Syria - 9/1/2013 7:22:45 AM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Oh, and they'll be responsible if Syria uses ANOTHER chemical weapon's attack.

That is an utterly ridiculous statement. Blame Syria's further use of chemical weapons on the Republicans? WTF?

_____________________________

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"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: President Obama Looks to Congress Now On Syria - 9/1/2013 7:27:48 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I can find nothing indicating SA has ever had any chemical weapons. So until I do I remain very skeptical.


I understand. I'm not saying Assad didn't use the chemical weapons. I'm not saying the rebels did. I'm saying there is too much conflicting information/reports, imo.

That's where my problem is. I'd much rather see us not act than act against the "wrong side," so to speak.


I agree.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: President Obama Looks to Congress Now On Syria - 9/1/2013 7:32:38 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Yeah, that's just fucking brilliant, Joether. A question of whether our nation should be getting involved in a civil war fought between a brutal dicatator and Al Qaeda shouldn't be considered in any frame other than of strict partisan gamesmanship...

You sicken me.


In PPL land, doing the right thing frequently takes a back seat to political expediency. It is a shame.

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 9/1/2013 7:50:48 AM >


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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: President Obama Looks to Congress Now On Syria - 9/1/2013 7:36:00 AM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I know he's convinced that the Assad regime used the chem weapons. I just don't know, though. It seems way too early for that determination, imo. Too many conflicting reports.

Do you have access to the intel reports that the Prez is using?

The media, as has been posted, is showing the UN investigation team is leaning towards the rebels being behind it (they do admit that their evidence isn't conclusive yet). Now, Obama is basing his determination on CIA intel and interviews from locals. The UN team is basing it's determination on having investigated the blast zone(s) and interviews from locals. There is also a report that one of the rebel groups is admitting that it was the rebels.
I am not saying the President is wrong. I'm saying I don't know that he's right. Considering I believed W, way back when, I'm much more skeptical today. Even if it turns out I was wrong, at least I would have been wrong in a way that was "safer."

The problem is where would the rebels have gotten a sarin artillery shell? You don't just whip up high purity sarin in that quantity in a small lab.


Saudi Arabia, perhaps?


My guess is that it was already in Syria. And it's probably Russian.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: President Obama Looks to Congress Now On Syria - 9/1/2013 7:56:13 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

In PPL land, doing the right thing frequently takes a back seat to political expediency. It is a shame.

Whereas right-wingers act solely on principle, I'm sure.

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 60
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