RE: What makes it a war crime?

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DaddySatyr -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/3/2013 8:49:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM The French could help draft that Master Plan. They could cater the negotiations, certainly

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/3/2013 8:56:32 PM)
Team America - World Police: The Obama Years Post 61 http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4537908 quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy I have a friend in the State Department. Here's what he's said. When the US is dragged into a conflict, it does pretty well. (WWII, Kuwait, The initial invasion of Afghanistan.) But when we meddle, the results are not too good: (IRAQ, Nation Building in Afghanistan, Toppling the government of Afghanistan under Reagan / arming the future Taliban, the coup in IRAN, the Coup in Chile, the coup in Guatemala, arming psychopaths in El Salvadore, and fighting North Vietnam.) The US is exceptional in one way: we can project force almost anywhere around the world. No other nation has this capability. The UN in not a reliable peace keeper or police man b/c the security counsel is often divided. My point. So don't rely on the UN or half measures nor a short sighted projection of force. Position France to do what they do best and work magic. The U.S. is exceptional, but so is France. Vive la France !

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/3/2013 9:04:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM The French could help draft that Master Plan. They could cater the negotiations, certainly quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM This is a good for a laugh. http://www.france24.com/en/20130901-egypt-detains-bird-tracked-french-scientists-suspected-spying If they did, there would be French spies everywhere.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/4/2013 8:19:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Personally, I think it is fucking time the US quit pushing its nose into the middle east (or ANYWHERE else). Help our allies and let the others tear themselves apart. Yepper.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/5/2013 12:44:13 PM)
As I pointed out there appears to be some rational basis for discriminating against the use of chemical weapons in war. These weapons have not been used in Syria in a systematic fashion, however. There is an accusation here and there of their use. What is occuring in Syria is no where near what was occuring in World War I. The concerns appears to be over whether these weapons are being used as terror weapons. Is terror more serious than the real thing? Because these events are only occurring here and there, we are vulnerable to manipulation. As far as we know maybe it was the UK who was responsible for the gas attacks and not the Syrian government. If not the UK, maybe Russia. If not Russia, Islamic extremists. All the legal instrastructure surrounding what constitutes or what does not constitutes a war crime was not developed with terrorism in mind. Maybe the United States is thinking like its Supreme Court. It can invent things and address problems that were never previously addressed as if they were addressed. When was terrorism ever taken seriously? Even Japan managed to carry on. Much of modern law has this character, however. How do you justify outlawing something that was never outlawed before? You justify it by declaring yourself enlightened. Though this notion of war crimes was invented during an era where people regarded themselves as enlightened, did anyone at the time, did any actor who participated in drafting or signing the war crime treaties think that making war was enlightened? and how are crimes prosecuted? There appears to be an obsession with pre-crime. Has any court been convened as of yet to decide if the Syrian government is guilty of war crimes?

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/5/2013 1:22:41 PM)
Why am I saying there is an obsession with pre-crime? For three reasons: (1) Crimes are prosecuted after they have occurred, not before nor while they are occurring. (2) Because the concern is over what a unknown actor in the future might hypothetically do. If we are claiming that it is a police action, police actions are not long drawn out affairs though investigations can be. For example, Waco was not a police action; it was a mini-civil war. (3) A verdict of not guilty is impossible which is a characteristic of pre-crime. For example, is possession of an illegal substance a crime? There is no intrinsic crime, but a pre-crime may have been committed. Are not such crimes considered academic? Q.E.D.

tweakabelle -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/5/2013 3:16:39 PM)
Here's Chomsky's views on this issue: " If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged. By violation of the Nuremberg laws I mean the same kind of crimes for which people were hanged in Nuremberg. And Nuremberg means Nuremberg and Tokyo. So first of all you've got to think back as to what people were hanged for at Nuremberg and Tokyo. And once you think back, the question doesn't even require a moment's waste of time. For example, one general at the Tokyo trials, which were the worst, General Yamashita, was hanged on the grounds that troops in the Philippines, which were technically under his command (though it was so late in the war that he had no contact with them -- it was the very end of the war and there were some troops running around the Philippines who he had no contact with), had carried out atrocities, so he was hanged. Well, try that one out and you've already wiped out everybody. Read the complete article at http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36110.htm

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/5/2013 3:31:23 PM)
Europe is into prevention whereas the United States is into a specific form of prevention, namely pre-crime. If this is the case what is France thinking? France figures that it can minimize the damage whereas the United States is thinking that it can maximize it, you bust someone's head to serve as an example. France won't be thinking, wow you are so Dom. France will be thinking, this guy is a psycho. France figures that it can minimize the damage whereas the United States is thinking that it can maximize it, like putting a fire out by causing it to burn hot enough where it burns itself out by consuming all of its available fuel quickly. We are philosophically at odds. They may betray us for this reason. In a French accent, "You think you could deceive us?" If the film French Kiss is indicative, the French want to be the good cop whereas the United States likes playing bad cop, just look at our films. If we can show that we are sincere it could work out. We could play good cop, bad cop.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/5/2013 4:13:25 PM)
If Chomsky was hired as an advisor to the President, what would he say to the President concerning Syria? How would Chomsky go about solving this problem? I suspect he would say why think of this as a problem. If the situation is meant to get out of hand, it will. Do nothing.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/5/2013 5:46:44 PM)
What does contemporary feminism do for men? Post 20 http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4539033 quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Sadly a few Neanderthals and class A morons haven't yet managed to get their troglodyte minds around these elementary facts of life yet. We may find out when Hillary becames President. Perhaps she will say that the male species is a war crime!

littlewonder -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/5/2013 6:29:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I think you are wrong... I will bet, but like you I am guessing, that they will target command and control centers. We have done this before and been very successful at it. Then they will target their air power, on the ground without control...and finally all the armor and artillery they can find... At least they have done it this way in the past and done it very well. Butch ETA-This is Kana here Notes that The Big O is only targeting "Chemical Weapon Munitions Factories." So my guess was right. This is a symbolic gesture only. Nothing will come from this that will change the course of the conflict (Unless of course, hard as it may be to fathom, we've been lied to again and are using Black Ops budgets to put feet on the ground...which you can bet already are there.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/5/2013 9:21:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder ETA-This is Kana here Notes that The Big O is only targeting "Chemical Weapon Munitions Factories." So my guess was right. This is a symbolic gesture only. ... Isn't that what everyone wants? quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder ... Nothing will come from this that will change the course of the conflict (Unless of course, hard as it may be to fathom, we've been lied to again and are using Black Ops budgets to put feet on the ground...which you can bet already are there. I suppose this could be Iraq 2.0 where we get to do it all over again, but this time do it even better.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/5/2013 9:59:15 PM)
I thought this was rich. quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM I suppose this could be Iraq 2.0 where we get to do it all over again, but this time do it even better. Any minute now Post 7 http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4535168 quote: 13. A Syrian Army officer: "We have more than 8,000 suicide martyrs within the Syrian army, ready to carry out martyrdom operations at any moment to stop the Americans and the British. I myself am ready to blow myself up against US aircraft carriers to stop them attacking Syria and its people." 14. Khalaf Muftah, a senior Ba'ath Party official: "We have strategic weapons and we're capable of responding." Really? Does anyone recall what happened in Iraq? After what happened in Iraq such threats are not all that Dom. I suppose if all of the weapons of mass destruction were moved from Iraq to Syria, the job wasn't actually finished, now was it?

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/6/2013 4:43:01 PM)
Joint Statement on Syria http://www.collarchat.com/m_4539880/tm.htm quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/09/06/joint-statement-syria ... The international norm against the use of chemical weapons is longstanding and universal. The use of chemical weapons anywhere diminishes the security of people everywhere. Left unchallenged, it increases the risk of further use and proliferation of these weapons. We condemn in the strongest terms the horrific chemical weapons attack ... . The evidence clearly points to the Syrian government being responsible for the attack, which is part of a pattern of chemical weapons use by the regime. ... Recognizing that Syria's conflict has no military solution, we reaffirm our commitment to seek a peaceful political settlement ... Notice the strong police stance, It's the Law. The it's the law argument may not hold if challenged. It is inherently weak; it cannot stand on its own. It has to be propped up. The key is keeping the position from being challenged which the international community may or may not succeed in doing. This is why there is an emphasis on "is longstanding and universal". It has to be emphasized because there is really nothing else holding it together. Does the use of chemical weapons anywhere diminishes the security of people everywhere? It diminishes the U.N. and what the U.N. stands for. Does that diminish the security of people everywhere? Yes and no. This stance is an ideological one. This is where Obama may learn why Bush did what he did. Everyone is running around saying It's the law, but the law has no teeth. It can be easily accused of being a charade or a joke. Who would shed a tear if the Ba'ath party should see its final demise? How important is the sovereignty of a nation? Do people deserve the government they have? Can the international community fulfill the role of nation builder? There is a chance that Syria will conclude that the international community is a paper tiger. At least with the precedent established by Bush they must at least take the United States seriously. Will they take Obama seriously is another matter.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/6/2013 5:00:09 PM)
President Obama Urges Congress to Vote Conscience on Syria, Even If Public Opposed http://www.collarchat.com/m_4540032/tm.htm quote: ORIGINAL: CTLoveslave By DEVIN DWYER and JONATHAN KARL \| ABC News – 2 hours 19 minutes ago ......ABC News - President Obama Urges Congress to Vote Conscience on Syria, Even If Public Opposed (ABC News) President Obama today conceded that he could fail to convince the American public to back proposed U.S. military strikes against Syria, but said that members of Congress should vote to approve the action anyway. "It's conceivable that, at the end of the day, I don't persuade a majority of the American people that it's the right thing to do," Obama said in response to a question from ABC News during a solo press conference at the conclusion of the G20 summit in St. Petersburg, Russia. But, Obama said, members of Congress need to consider the lessons of World War II and their own consciences and vote 'yes' to authorize the use of force, even if it means going against the opinion of the majority of their constituents. " It might help for Obama to jump ship and say that Bush had it right and it took becoming President and walking in His shoes. If you are willing to go down in flames doing the right thing, make an apology to the Bush administration. If the Republicans are so immature that the two of you cannot kiss and make up, it's their karma and not yours. It is a gamble and it could come up snake eyes, but at least you will know you did your very best and took the gamble; you had the courage to throw the dice. That is what Bush did and you may have to do the same much as He did and take it on the chin as He did as well. If we go to war may we go to war as one people.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/6/2013 5:12:04 PM)
How would I sell this ideology to the global audience? Yes it is the United States backing this and we are capitalists, but the United Nations is a communal model, a community of nation states. Stability is good for business, but is also good for great deal more. It is about our future as a species and what we could or could not achieve.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/6/2013 5:34:11 PM)
What we would be giving up in not backing the ideal behind the founding of the United States is hope. We do this in the hope that future of human civilization is bright whereas diplomacy is about patience, yet one must also have courage.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/7/2013 2:23:41 AM)
ObamaCare and Making it Work for You http://www.collarchat.com/m_4540420/tm.htm quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM ... The state also did a screw job on its citizens with Medicare. I wish I had the means to teach them a lesson. ... I am wondering is there anything I can do. I feel there is medical malpractice, but the attorneys are concerned that their investment will be lost if she should die. In my opinion there is another problem as well. Due to the way the legal system works, no systemic problem can be addressed. If the problem is systemic, no one wants to touch it. It reminds me of what happened when our economy crashed in 2008. Because the problem was systemic, the professionals didn't want to touch it. Sad isn't it? Can states be held accountable for anything? It might be a beginning in Syria, but legal processes tend to have constipation and as such it may be no beginning at all. Perhaps it will be a heroic shot in the dark. After all we must at least try. So I suppose what the United States is arguing is, this is one systemic problem the world would be better off not having. There are enough of them as it is. War is an old story, but this one need not become one.

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/7/2013 2:25:53 AM)
Am I not able to bend concepts to my Will as if they were my whore or what?

BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/7/2013 2:36:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM Am I not able to bend concepts to my Will as if they were my whore or what? Try not to be offended by what I wrote. I am trying to play grand wizard. The world needs to become a better place. It is my forelorn attempt to make it so.

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