RE: What makes it a war crime? (Full Version)

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BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/9/2013 3:24:57 PM)

This I believe is the weakest point in your argument.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

6-
quote:

Threatening to harm his daughter?
And what in the world makes you think wingnuts here aren't blogging the same thing about them. Let's see, we had Mossadeq killed, we targeted Quddafi and killed his kid, had Saddam executed on TV.We've slaughtered innocents with drone, done carpet bombing.
They threaten one person. We threaten 50,000. ... But this is asymmetrical warfare and that's how it's played.


It's business. You are saying the relationship is symmetrical "you think wingnuts here aren't" whereas you are claiming it is asymmetrical. Which is it? Saddam was an innocent?




BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/9/2013 3:56:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Euro geopolitical analysts can't think of one reason Assad would rationally use chem weapons and suspect maye a rogue commander, maybe one siding with the rebels trying to lure us in.


I can think of one. It is a terror weapon that can be used with plausible deniability.




Kana -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/9/2013 4:33:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Euro geopolitical analysts can't think of one reason Assad would rationally use chem weapons and suspect maybe a rogue commander, maybe one siding with the rebels trying to lure us in.


I can think of one. It is a terror weapon that can be used with plausible deniability.

Yeah,but in light of the possible risks, using it makes no sense at all. This is a minor engagement in a much larger war, one that Assad by all accounts is winning.
You don't risk everything on a roll of the dice for that.
You use those babies when the enemy is at the gates and there are no other options. Then it's "Fuck the world, I'm just trying to survive," time.
You take that risk when there's a real worthwhile reward, you don't lose a war you've taken control of in exchange for inconsequential gains.
That's just loopy.
And don't make the mistake of thinking these guys aren't smart. You don't survive as long as Assad has in a place as volatile as the Middle East w/o having some freaking brains. These dudes know what they are doing, they be crazy like a fox.

And again, despite the administrations claims to the contrary, they've produced no hard evidence. Hell, they won't even show any evidence to the public.The same people behind all the Snowden lies are now saying "Trust us."
Cuz you know, the US government has been so trustworthy about WMD's and the Middle East before.
Fuck dude, the Administration doesn't even know. The White House says one thing, Kerry says another.I mean shit, they can't even keep the story straight. First they have incontrovertible evidence. Then it's, well, not quite what it's cracked up to be. Now they won't even release whatever the hell they have but they assure us, assure us I say, that it's solid. Fuck.They don't have a clue.
And we want this clownshoes show to lead us into war?
Holy piss.That's frightening

Finally, one more time, why is this falling to us and not the UN?
This is a UN issue, not a US issue. The worst possible move we can make now we've already done, make it an American issue.
Now, either way we play our hand, we lose.
And that sucks.As they say in Wargames, what fun is to play a game rigged so you cannot win?

As for the first reply above,I'm saying the hate is symmetrical.
The forces, and thus the strategies and corresponding tactics, aren't.
They can't beat us in any sort of conventional war.They know it. We know it.Everyone does (WTF else do you think Iran wants nukes? They know that's the only way they'll truly be safe from US incursion.Those cats look at North Korea and go,"Uh-huh. That the way to be, Jack.")
So you use guerrilla tactics, attack when they retreat, retreat when the enemy attacks, be where they aren't and do be where they are.
Is it fair? Fuck no. But then again, what in war is? Carpet bombing sure ain't. Burying troops alive in the trenches with armored bulldozers sure ain't, which we did in Iraq. Sending kill squads in on stealth choppers and invading a sovereign nations airspace to do so ain't. But we do it. As do they.
There ain't no good guys here. Not even effing close





BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/9/2013 4:53:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

That's just loopy.


My impression is they are loopy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

But what if we took all this $ we're spending on stupid wars ... and did a Manhattan Project type deal trying to reduce our dependence on oil, don't you think that would be ... much better ...


Sounds good to me, but is it realistic?




BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/9/2013 5:07:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Burying troops alive in the trenches with armored bulldozers sure ain't, which we did in Iraq.


I'm impressed. Just fill the trenches in.




BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/9/2013 5:28:10 PM)

What makes it a war crime?
1283 hits / 164 posts = 7.8 hits per post

What does contemporary feminism do for men?
1277 hits / 122 posts = 10.5 hits per post

100 - 7.8 / 10.5 * 100 = 25.7




Kana -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/9/2013 7:23:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

But what if we took all this $ we're spending on stupid wars ... and did a Manhattan Project type deal trying to reduce our dependence on oil, don't you think that would be ... much better ...


Sounds good to me, but is it realistic?

Sounds to me to be a whole lot more realistic than "We'll kill you until you like us."


quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Burying troops alive in the trenches with armored bulldozers sure ain't, which we did in Iraq.


I'm impressed. Just fill the trenches in.

That's what we did Day One of Desert Storm.The Iraqi's were all dug in their trenches. We just sent these massive uber heavily armored earthmovers in, the armor was so heavy nothing the Iraqi's had on the ground could penetrate it. They just plinked away with their AK's and RPG's, bullets and shells bouncing harmlessly off, until the earthmovers hit the first line of trenches, started burying whole companies alive. All of a sudden, lines 2,3,4... of the trenches started surrendering en masse.
That's one of the reasons for the low US casualty/high prisoner ratio.

That's some harsh shit there. Talk about a brutal way to die




BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/9/2013 7:38:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Talk about a brutal way to die


But look at the objective numbers. What percentage of soldiers were buried alive? A gas attack has the potential to hit a lot harder.

Could it be regarded as an equalizer in an asymmetric conflict? Consider being put in a ring with a prize fighter. If you take with you a pair of brass knuckles so too can the prize fighter. It won't be pretty.




BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/9/2013 9:46:55 PM)

As a flower prepares to bloom, U.S. Botanic Garden prepares ...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/as-a-flower-prepares-to-bloom-us-botanic-garden-prepares-to-smell-like-death/2013/07/14/0eca3658-eb0a-11e2-a301-ea5a8116d211_story.html




BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/11/2013 8:48:08 AM)

Is the world safe when there are countries that believe that the murder of innocents is free speech? Those that do wrap themselves in a rationalization: Apples and oranges are fruits. Though they are fruits, neither come from the same tree.




BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/11/2013 10:17:26 AM)

10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address
http://www.collarchat.com/m_4543322/tm.htm

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I pretty much concur with your analysis DS and I think the emotional plea was pathetic. As if the US cared about children dying anywhere in the world including the US.

He's got a great speech writer and he's got that big dopey grin that everyone loves but it was all smoke & mirrors.


Though his argument is incomplete and therefore technically speaking fallacious as a practical matter this is not a problem since the argument can be unpacked. It appears to be your conviction that reason and feeling are incompatible. This is not so. That an argument is emotive does not exclude the possibility that it is rational.

Sarin gas is a weapon different from most weapons. Much of the time we are spectators in a horror show because we are faced with problems we can do nothing about. Most of the time we are powerless, but there are fires we can stomp out.




BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/11/2013 10:26:50 AM)

Would this fire burn itself out on its own?




BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/11/2013 10:35:13 AM)

Do I believe that Syria, et al want U.S. involvement? Yes. Post 1 of the thread

10 Sep 2013 Presidential Address
http://www.collarchat.com/m_4543322/tm.htm

spells it out. We were summoned. They are conjuring.




BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/11/2013 10:51:09 AM)

What do they want? They want a Holocaust. They want a Holocaust because they cannot conceive of the possibility that they are evil. They feel that they will be judged righteous; hence, they cannot lose. Unfortunately, they are coming from a place that is fundamentally irrational. As such you cannot reason with them.

If this is the case, perhaps the best strategy is to do nothing, but unfortunately we are dealing with a determined adversary. Our adversary will grow stronger with time instead of weaker. They are at the cusp of achieving their objectives, but have not yet achieved them and so the time is right for us to intervene. Adolph Hitler was German. They are not. Hence, they lack the same sort of self-control. Their intentions are being telegraphed to us.




BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/11/2013 11:09:42 AM)

The problem has been brewing for a long time and it is rooted in jealousy. They feel they are the true Masters of this world. Some are dismissive and say nothing has been brewing; their rhetoric is just rhetoric and has to do with a quirk in their psychology that we do not understand. Unfortunately, this is not the case. They mean what they say.




BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/11/2013 11:21:09 AM)

They want you to believe they are victims because they feel you are dumb enough to believe it.




BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/11/2013 11:59:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

They want you to believe they are victims because they feel you are dumb enough to believe it.


Why am I saying this? Because it is my impression that they love each other much like the Nazis loved each other. You don't matter. Whatever they can do to manipulate you.




BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/11/2013 6:31:40 PM)

How do you occupy a country whose people are largely uneducated? We haven't solved that problem yet. How do you occupy a country without being cruel? We haven't solved that problem yet either.




BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/11/2013 7:01:43 PM)

It seems likely that things will become extraordinarily hypocritical if we proceed with this and make war. War and war crimes to some extent go hand in hand. So you go in to uphold the law to later be accused of being a criminal.




BenevolentM -> RE: What makes it a war crime? (9/11/2013 7:04:41 PM)

It would be simpler just to say we are evil and our intentions are evil and let the spectators debate not whether or not we are evil, but whether or not we are good.




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