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difficulty with sub - 9/3/2013 1:44:09 AM   
bigchaza


Posts: 4
Joined: 9/2/2013
Status: offline 		this may be a stupid question keep in mind ive never had any contact with the bdsm community so forgive me if my terminology is wrong

I have a long term relationship that has been steadily building into a dominant/submissive relationship. I wouldn't call here a slave yet but we have both shown interest in going that far. When i met her she was a virgin and we have come along way but im encountering alot of issues where she is consciously rejecting control even though she wants it. Ive never had this before in previous relationships there wasn't really any long term resistance and im not used to it.

for example she has told me she enjoys wearing a collar one day and then refuses to acknowledge that she wore a collar and calls it a necklace the next day.

or has baited/encouraged me to enforce power in area's we had previously agreed she wasn't ready to be involved in but i feel apprehensive as previously we have stated these area's are of limits

she had alot of difficulty calling me sir and refused to say it (beyond a level i felt comfortable exerting myself into) but then calls me sir intermediately of her own free will

although I love control, I love consent and willingness more. Im both enjoying the challenge and feeling like im making no headway any advice?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: difficulty with sub - 9/3/2013 1:55:34 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I'm going to guess that she craves more control but doesn't feel comfortable just asking for it.
I wouldn't give it to her though for that behavior. What I would do is sit down with her, and have a serious talk about what you want, what she wants, and how to "get there from here."
Let her know what pleases you, and how frustrated her behavior makes you.
It's possible she just wants a play bdsm type thing, and you want something more. Make sure you're both on the same page, or you'll both end up frustrated and confused.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to bigchaza)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: difficulty with sub - 9/3/2013 6:44:04 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		She may have an idea that she wants to be "forced", for you to assert yourself. I myself have a hard time dealing with that.

Ask her why she's doing that, and what she expects from you when she does. If it's something you're prepared to do, fine. If it's not, then you either put up with it or break her of it.

Should you want to break her of it, every time she does something you don;t like, tell her that she knows what she's doing and that you don't like it. And then break off all communication with her for a specified period. I'd recommend a few hours at first. Be prepared for her to test you immediately after the period is over, at least once.



_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to xxblushesxx)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: difficulty with sub - 9/3/2013 4:49:45 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		If she's up and down in other areas of her life other than kink, it's just her personality, and if she has dramatic swings, could be a mental health issue.

(in reply to bigchaza)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: difficulty with sub - 9/3/2013 5:15:36 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

She may have an idea that she wants to be "forced", for you to assert yourself.

Or maybe not. I know when I first started I was dealing with my own feelings about the values/morals that I had been raised with and it caused me to swing from "I really want this" to "I can't do this it's wrong/anti-feminism/slutty/weak".

Thankfully, I was with someone who could understand that those swings and showed the utmost level of patience.

quote:

Ask her why she's doing that, and what she expects from you when she does.


Ultimately, this is the best course of action. We can only guess at what is causing the swings. She is the best authority on the cause and what she feels she needs to get past them.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: difficulty with sub - 9/3/2013 7:11:39 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Sounds like a young, moody girl..kinda typical for girls who are around 18 to mid twenties. I have no idea how old this girl is. I'm just guessing. I didn't read your profile.

I'm going to guess that she gets in one mood, she's horny, etc...and likes the idea of the collar, obeying, etc...next time, not so much but still wanting something, just not as much. It's all sexual for her. It depends on her level of libido and mood.

It's the hormones dude....unless she's not young and in that case, I'm just gonna guess she's not as into you as you think.

But here's the advice I give to everyone for just about everything.

Talk, talk and talk some more.

Have you told her any of this that you just told us. Why not? If not, get busy.


_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to bigchaza)
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RE: difficulty with sub - 9/3/2013 8:18:32 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bigchaza
although I love control, I love consent and willingness more. Im both enjoying the challenge and feeling like im making no headway any advice?

No. I do have an observation though. It would appear that she is the dominant one in this relationship. Is that what you both want?

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to bigchaza)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: difficulty with sub - 9/4/2013 12:40:54 AM   
bigchaza


Posts: 4
Joined: 9/2/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


Or maybe not. I know when I first started I was dealing with my own feelings about the values/morals that I had been raised with and it caused me to swing from "I really want this" to "I can't do this it's wrong/anti-feminism/slutty/weak".

Thankfully, I was with someone who could understand that those swings and showed the utmost level of patience.




Yeah I think you pretty much nailed it there

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: difficulty with sub - 9/4/2013 12:44:47 AM   
bigchaza


Posts: 4
Joined: 9/2/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigchaza
although I love control, I love consent and willingness more. Im both enjoying the challenge and feeling like im making no headway any advice?

No. I do have an observation though. It would appear that she is the dominant one in this relationship. Is that what you both want?


it would appear to I don't conform to your set structure of a relationship

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: difficulty with sub - 9/4/2013 2:05:53 AM   
ante


Posts: 21
Joined: 7/23/2007
Status: offline 		It kind of reminds me a little of myself right at the beginning. Fighting the whole submissiveness thing. Thinking submissives were weak doormants who couldn't stand up for themselves and allowed others to abuse them. It's a rather conflicting feeling when you crave control and still feel that you're at fault for doing so. At those times I'd do and say things when my level of arousal was high, but which I'd later blush at if it was brought up in discussion and find really uncomfortable to admit to. In my relationship it was part of the dynamic though and enjoyed watching me struggling with myself, and at the same time had the utmost patience and never pushed too far. That was a relationship where I felt safe and trusted him completely though and it started out pretty vanilly and gradually evolved from there as we realised that the power struggle dynamic was actually something else. (And several dom friends had tried to tell me that I was a sub and I'd adamantly refuse!)

With other men later though, the whole uttering of Sir, is something I find really hard to do. Again, I have had men shouting abuse at me for not offering this up for no other reason than them claiming to be dominant, and those who have patiently ignored the fact that I don't use the term and who later have recognised that they much preferred this, as it meant that once I did say it, it actually meant a lot more to them than if it was something I said to every man I ever met. But that's just me. I don't think there is anything wrong in using it politely as long as you are comfortable doing so. To me it just doesn't feel right.

About consciously rejecting control I'd like to say that perhaps it's more subconscious. I was guitly of that and I mainly did it when I felt insecure and needed reassuring.

Baiting or encouraging is perhaps not the best way to move on with testing boundaries. For this I would suggest that she's permitted to ask for something she thinks she needs or may feel ready for. I have previously downright said no to something if it's talked about face to face, but during play and with the right level of arousal have admitted that I feel ready for it and would like to try.

I am certainly guilty of playing out the brat card a lot, and it just became very obvious with me that the level of brattiness was equaling that of my level of insecurity.


(in reply to bigchaza)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: difficulty with sub - 9/4/2013 5:43:24 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		I don't think it has anything to do with age. For some of us, we have a very difficult time completely submitting to someone elses will, even when we want too. Its really kinda scarey, especially when you have been fighting for control your whole life or used to getting your own way. Many things inside the mind can come into play, and sometimes she might not even understand herself why she is acting like a bi polar maniac With patience, time and consistency I think she will come around for you. Being submissive is a tough journey for some of us, but also very worth it. Don't give up on her.

_____________________________

I am like a box of chocolates, you never know what variety you are going to get on any given day.

My crazy smells like jasmine, cloves and cat nip.

(in reply to ante)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: difficulty with sub - 9/4/2013 8:14:21 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		It sounds more like she views this as a sex game. She's fine with it when she's in the mood but not when she isn't. And that's okay for her but it doesn't have to be okay for you. You may just not be compatible.

You folks need to sit down over coffee, fully dressed, and talk. Tell her that you're frustrated, irritated and ready to give up on the relationship. Find out how she views it or if she thinks you're overstepping your bounds.

But if she wants funishment, she may not know that she's allowed to ask for it. And that if she's in the mood to be 'forced' she needs to somehow clue you in so you know if she's sincere or not. She could wear a special color shirt at those times or anything else that works.

But she needs to understand that you are not now and never will be a mind reader and that it's unfair for her to expect you to do that.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to sissymaid8989)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: difficulty with sub - 9/4/2013 8:42:21 AM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bigchaza


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigchaza
although I love control, I love consent and willingness more. Im both enjoying the challenge and feeling like im making no headway any advice?

No. I do have an observation though. It would appear that she is the dominant one in this relationship. Is that what you both want?


it would appear to I don't conform to your set structure of a relationship


What he means is that she seems to be dictating the direction and pace of the power exchange dynamic. Which is totally fine and reasonable, especially if it's a sex game for you guys, some fun role-playing in the bedroom. Which I think is what D/s is for most people. But it will probably make it difficult-to-impossible for you to "go that far" and have full control on an ongoing basis.

I think it's likely that she just hasn't fully come to terms with what she wants and that it's okay to have it, and so either doesn't really know what she wants, is embarrassed/ashamed about it and/or is having a hard time communicating it with you. Hence all the back-and-forth stuff. You need to sit down and have a serious conversation with her about it. Be patient and nonjudgemental, but don't let her get out of it.

(in reply to bigchaza)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: difficulty with sub - 9/4/2013 8:52:44 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bigchaza
it would appear to I don't conform to your set structure of a relationship

Well that's certainly obvious but it doesn't answer my question... is that what you want? My way contains no intrinsic "rightness". I'm merely pointing out that, at least as you told the story, she's holding all the cards.

To give you an example, if Carol wore her collar one day then denied it the next I'd simply take away the collar more or less permanently. Problem solved.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to bigchaza)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: difficulty with sub - 9/4/2013 12:23:03 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		I'm sensing some internal conflict, that perhaps she's not comfortable with what it is she actually wants. So it feels right one day and then she has trouble processing it the next. I'm thinking she needs time getting used to being in her own skin, and, more importantly, accepting this part of her and that it's OK.

As for controlling the pace, well a good friend of mine (a dominant man) once told me the healthiest relationships progress at the speed of the slowest party. Keep talking talking talking, have patience for each other, and be sure you have a handle on those reigns, even if the pace is slower than you prefer.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to bigchaza)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: difficulty with sub - 9/11/2013 5:35:30 PM   
di25


Posts: 12
Joined: 8/4/2008
Status: offline 		Maybe she has Borderline Personality Disorder. Seems like what it could be and I know this personally from experience

(in reply to bigchaza)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: difficulty with sub - 9/14/2013 7:05:02 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I think you are going to find it like sinking into a very hot bathtub, deeper (and set, acclimate), ouch ouch ouch ouch, deeper (and set, and acclimate), ouch ouch ouch ouch, deeper (and set, and acclimate).

Really a pleasing and serene experience for the right type of woman, I should think.

Let her have chocolate once in a while.

And a glass of wine.

And soft music and candles.

And ignore her responses when she imitates the birds who babble at the brook.


< Message edited by mnottertail -- 9/14/2013 7:10:14 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to di25)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: difficulty with sub - 9/14/2013 8:57:30 AM   
orgasmdenial12


Posts: 613
Joined: 9/18/2012
Status: offline 		At the moment she can pick and choose when she is submissive, because she knows it's always on tap from you. I would start turning that round a little - don't be dominant just because she wants you to be, hold off until she starts to wonder if she is going to get it from you, till she's very eager, and then make it clear that you're only going to do it if she's a very good girl. Make it a little bit challenging for her so that she feels she is stretching herself / growing as a submissive. So for example, if she wants to wear her collar, tell her that she can do, but she has to agree to wear it for two days, not just one. If she wants you to do something that she likes, i.e. spanking, tell her that she can do, but she has to call you Sir as well, etc. In this way, gradually increase the amount of time she is following at least one of your commands, as well as the range of things she is willing to do. If she has agreed to do something, and then says no, the next time she wants to do it, she has to do something you like first in order to get it.

(in reply to bigchaza)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: difficulty with sub - 9/14/2013 9:16:40 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Le Sigh.

Kana's three base rules for being a dominant anything....
1-Be firm but fair
2-Be consistent
3-Never fail to reward good behavior.

OP my man, you need to seriously investigate numbers uno and dos

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to orgasmdenial12)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: difficulty with sub - 9/14/2013 9:36:52 AM   
sloguy02246


Posts: 534
Joined: 11/5/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Le Sigh.

Kana's three base rules for being a dominant anything....
1-Be firm but fair
2-Be consistent
3-Never fail to reward good behavior.

OP my man, you need to seriously investigate numbers uno and dos

These are good rules for any type of relationship.

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 20
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