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If the US intervenes in Syria, it's all your faults... - 9/4/2013 8:34:09 AM

DesideriScuri

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Obama didn't set a red line.

quote:

"First of all, I didn't set a red line," said Obama. "The world set a red line. The world set a red line when governments representing 98 percent of the world's population said the use of chemical weapons are [inaudble] and passed a treaty forbidding their use, even when countries are engaged in war. Congress set a red line when it ratified that treaty. Congress set a red line when it indicated that in a piece of legislation entitled the Syria Accountability Act that some of the horrendous things happening on the ground there need to be answered for. So, when I said in a press conference that my calculus about what's happening in Syria would be altered by the use of chemical weapons, which the overwhelming consensus of humanity says is wrong, that wasn't something I just kind of made up. I didn't pluck it out of thin air. There's a reason for it."

Unless you're part of that 2%, it's your fault.

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RE: If the US intervenes in Syria, it's all your faults... - 9/4/2013 8:52:34 AM

MasterCaneman

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Great. One more thing I'm gonna get blamed for now.

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RE: If the US intervenes in Syria, it's all your faults... - 9/4/2013 9:05:35 AM

mnottertail

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98% of the globe are signatories to the Geneva Conventions, and how did Obama set the red line? I mean, he pointed out that the red line was crossed. . .

Why is the attempt to make it about Obama?, it is about an action that was outlawed by the world.

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RE: If the US intervenes in Syria, it's all your faults... - 9/4/2013 9:23:32 AM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
98% of the globe are signatories to the Geneva Conventions, and how did Obama set the red line? I mean, he pointed out that the red line was crossed. . .
Why is the attempt to make it about Obama?, it is about an action that was outlawed by the world.

Did you watch the second video in the linked article?

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RE: If the US intervenes in Syria, it's all your faults... - 9/4/2013 10:01:06 AM

mnottertail

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Yeah, and so what? he said 'red line' couple of times. . . . do you need to commit suicide over it by choking on your own bile?

WTF? chemical weapons are outlawed in the world. Now, kiilling a few million of your countrymen as the party in power may or may not be reprehensible, but it is not outright illegal is it? But kill them with chemical weapons..........that is a world matter.

Yanno, sandanistas, cubans, tianemen square, angola, vietnam, korea, and so on...........

Whats the big fuckin deal? The administration said that is a no no, and would get involved, wasn't really worried if Assad is protecting the government legally.

Hey, think about grenada, panamanian strong man Manuel Noriega. Was that all good shit because the word redline wasn't used? Is it the word redline you find offensive to your sensibilities?

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RE: If the US intervenes in Syria, it's all your faults... - 9/4/2013 10:11:37 AM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Yeah, and so what? he said 'red line' couple of times. . . . do you need to commit suicide over it by choking on your own bile?
WTF? chemical weapons are outlawed in the world. Now, kiilling a few million of your countrymen as the party in power may or may not be reprehensible, but it is not outright illegal is it? But kill them with chemical weapons..........that is a world matter.
Yanno, sandanistas, cubans, tianemen square, angola, vietnam, korea, and so on...........
Whats the big fuckin deal? The administration said that is a no no, and would get involved, wasn't really worried if Assad is protecting the government legally.
Hey, think about grenada, panamanian strong man Manuel Noriega. Was that all good shit because the word redline wasn't used? Is it the word redline you find offensive to your sensibilities?

The sad thing is that Obama clearly drew a red line. Now, he's saying it wasn't him drawing it.

If it's such a clear red line, where is the UN?

Or, is it that we (the US) are going to have to be World Police because there isn't anyone out there that will do it? If there is such a clear crossing of the GC, does the UNSC really have any option but to authorize military action?

I said before I wished Obama wouldn't have drawn the red line. That, essentially, commits the US to action, if it's crossed.

If the GC is crossed, who is responsible for policing?

The World Community needs to come together on this. If the World Community isn't willing or able to come together on this, then, we (the US) don't have the authority to do it ourselves. If we do it anyway, we'll be opening ourselves up for direct backlash, which could very easily not be in our favor.

But, for Obama to draw a red line and then backtrack about it is ridiculous. I agree that he didn't just pull it out of thin air, though. IMO, he simply pulled it out of his ass.

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RE: If the US intervenes in Syria, it's all your faults... - 9/4/2013 10:14:38 AM

mnottertail

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The sad thing is that Obama clearly drew a red line. Now, he's saying it wasn't him drawing it. (no, not at all the full faith and leadership of the united states of america said it, it coulda been magic underpants, were he our elected president, this aint about the man).

If it's such a clear red line, where is the UN? (foiled by russia, never gonna get out of the security council for a vote) you should probably turn off that Faux Nuze shit and read and watch around the channels for (as close as we come these days) to real news a little, get up to speed here.

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RE: If the US intervenes in Syria, it's all your faults... - 9/4/2013 10:28:02 AM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
The sad thing is that Obama clearly drew a red line. Now, he's saying it wasn't him drawing it. (no, not at all the full faith and leadership of the united states of america said it, it coulda been magic underpants, were he our elected president, this aint about the man).

No. He said it. Full faith and leadership of the US will be if he wins authorization through Congress.

quote:

If it's such a clear red line, where is the UN? (foiled by russia, never gonna get out of the security council for a vote) you should probably turn off that Faux Nuze shit and read and watch around the channels for (as close as we come these days) to real news a little, get up to speed here.

<chuckle> As usual, you bark up the Fox News tree improperly. What's really sad, though, is that I get my news from the internet. I watch my FB feed and P&R. I see what people are talking about and follow links. I do searches and look when there is a point I feel needs to be made, I try to use a source that won't allow the story to be ignored simply because of the source.

But, do go on about my Fox News viewership... lmao

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RE: If the US intervenes in Syria, it's all your faults... - 9/4/2013 10:34:29 AM

mnottertail

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Yeah, fb has faux all over it in the folks you hang out with. Yanno, McCain said he was a war criminal, magic underpants said he cared, the nutsuckers said they were the party of fiscal responsibility, they said they passed a budget, they said they repealed Obamacare, the nutsuckers have brought us jobs.......

"Americans are again left asking the question 'where are the jobs?'
"Republicans have pledged to listen. We've pledged to act, and we have," the speaker says.

John Boehner- June 14, 2012

But Obama hasn't ever quite said what you have said he said, it is mostly spin.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 9/4/2013 10:36:20 AM >

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RE: If the US intervenes in Syria, it's all your faults... - 9/4/2013 10:42:14 AM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, and so what? he said 'red line' couple of times. . . .

I thought he was Kenyan not Afghani?

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RE: If the US intervenes in Syria, it's all your faults... - 9/4/2013 10:49:31 AM

OrionTheWolf

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~FR~

1) McCain says the same thing about red line so it is not just Obama saying it.

2) The US has no obligation to be the ones to enforce the Gen convention or other treaties.

3) I read that military action will dissuade other countries from using them in the future. How well has that worked in the past?

4) Chem weapons or not, women and children have been dying in Syria because of the government since 2011 and not a peep about all those deaths. Just because chem weapons are now used many seem to emphasize the number of women and children killed, and that is just to pluck heart strings. No emotional outcry before the chem weapons.

5) The inaction by all of those other countries shows me what their opinion is now, so maybe that treaty should be revisited to see who actually stands behind it or not.

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RE: If the US intervenes in Syria, it's all your faults... - 9/4/2013 10:56:05 AM

mnottertail

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We certainly have been a heavy lifter in all these williwaws, it would be nice for someone to get up here and shoot in amongst us, cuz one of us needs some relief.

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RE: If the US intervenes in Syria, it's all your faults... - 9/4/2013 11:04:08 AM

SubudSC

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This is the US were talking about? The same indispensable nation that showered North Vitenam with Napalm and agent Orange, the same nation that propped up brutal dictatorships in Latin America and around the world, the same nation that provided with and helped Saddam use chemical weapons against Iran, the same nation that dropped white phosphorous and depleted uranium all over Fallujah in 2004. Were talking about that "Humanitarian" nation?

It is sad that people still believe what comes out of these people's mouths. Now that we can safely discard humanitarian grounds as the reason for US intervention we can look at why they really want to get involved.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MID-04-230713.html

Why would Assad invite inspectors into his country and then launch a chemical weapons attack miles from where they are staying? Especially considering that the his side was winning and the rebels were in disarray? It doesn't follow the ruthless and logical pattern he has used throughout the civil war.

Bandar "Bush" was rumored to have been assassinated by Syrian intelligence in 2012. He went from being presumed dead to paying a surprise visit to Moscow where he met with Putin personally in late July. The Saudi King then gave Bandar free reign in Syria and made him chief of all the Saudi intelligence services. Transcripts of his meeting with Putin were released, and they had a few interesting quotes:

quote:

Bandar told Putin, “There are many common values and goals that bring us together, most notably the fight against terrorism and extremism all over the world. Russia, the US, the EU and the Saudis agree on promoting and consolidating international peace and security. The terrorist threat is growing in light of the phenomena spawned by the Arab Spring. We have lost some regimes. And what we got in return were terrorist experiences, as evidenced by the experience of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and the extremist groups in Libya. ...

As an example, I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics in the city of Sochi on the Black Sea next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are controlled by us, and they will not move in the Syrian territory’s direction without coordinating with us. [Talk about a threat]These groups do not scare us. We use them in the face of the Syrian regime but they will have no role or influence in Syria’s political future.”

Putin thanked King Abdullah for his greetings and Bandar for his exposition, but then he said to Bandar, “We know that you have supported the Chechen terrorist groups for a decade. And that support, which you have frankly talked about just now, is completely incompatible with the common objectives of fighting global terrorism that you mentioned. We are interested in developing friendly relations according to clear and strong principles.”

Bandar (later on) when Putin refused to change stance on Syria:
“there is no escape from the military option, because it is the only currently available choice given that the political settlement ended in stalemate. We believe that the Geneva II Conference will be very difficult in light of this raging situation.”

One has to wonder what "raging situation" Bandar was referring to. The Geneva conference had been delayed several times already before being cancelled after the chemical incident. Was it the chemical weapons attack that would take place a month later?
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/politics/2013/08/saudi-russia-putin-bandar-meeting-syria-egypt.html#ixzz2dvxS6MBd

Locals on the ground implicated Bandar:
http://www.mintpressnews.com/witnesses-of-gas-attack-say-saudis-supplied-rebels-with-chemical-weapons/1681

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RE: If the US intervenes in Syria, it's all your faults... - 9/4/2013 11:09:53 AM

mnottertail

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Napalm is not defined as a chemical weapon, they have been napalming the shit out of them over there for some time, if you hunt hard, you will see that is so, but wont make the papers much. Agent orange was a defoliant, we sprayed it on our folks too, didnt know the harm, much like DDT.

Uh, the US could give a fuck about their pipeline, insofar as gas goes, I believe that we have the largest reserves of that shit on the planet, under our ground.

So, a little doo whackie in my estimation.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 9/4/2013 11:10:47 AM >

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RE: If the US intervenes in Syria, it's all your faults... - 9/4/2013 12:06:56 PM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Yeah, fb has faux all over it in the folks you hang out with. Yanno, McCain said he was a war criminal, magic underpants said he cared, the nutsuckers said they were the party of fiscal responsibility, they said they passed a budget, they said they repealed Obamacare, the nutsuckers have brought us jobs.......

Which is why I get my news from more than just the links appearing in my FB feed and here.

quote:

But Obama hasn't ever quite said what you have said he said, it is mostly spin.

Huh?

Did you listen to what he said?

quote:

President Obama: "We have been very clear to the Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized. That would change my calculus. That would change my equation. ... In a situation this this volatile, I wouldn't say I'm absolutely confident, what I'm saying is that we're monitoring that situation very carefully. We have put together a range of contingency plans. We have communicated in no uncertain terms, with every player in the region, that that's a red line for us. And, that there would be enormous consequences if we start to see movement on the chemical weapons front, or the use of chemical weapons. That would change my calculations, significantly."

You are saying that the video in the OP link (the second video; direct Youtube link here) doesn't clearly show Obama stating that use of chemical weapons is a red line for the US?

When did a direct quote become spin?

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RE: If the US intervenes in Syria, it's all your faults... - 9/4/2013 12:41:21 PM

mnottertail

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ou are saying that the video in the OP link (the second video; direct Youtube link here) doesn't clearly show Obama stating that use of chemical weapons is a red line for the US?

No, are you that devoid of comprehension and understanding, the President is the world spokesman for the United States, and the United States and the United States (I would suppose) thru its leadership, its laws and its treaties said this was the way we were going to go, draw the red line here, and Obama didnt say it, the leader of the largest free nation in the world said it, and (whether they will back it up or not (besides France)) they said it. Who was it in France without looking it up? Cuz I know you dont know the President of Frances name off the top of your head from Facebook or P&R.

Now you should see the point. France said it. The USA said it.

Lotta stuff I dont like in the world, but I didnt get to make it all. But he didnt say HE said it, and he didnt say HE didnt say it. He uttered the words with the full faith and credit of the USA behind it. (such as any might have faith or credit with us).

That is asswipe pure and simple, a mincing nutsucking cant with no fucking sensibility, and futile and pointless and nothingness.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 9/4/2013 12:44:30 PM >

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RE: If the US intervenes in Syria, it's all your faults... - 9/4/2013 12:47:41 PM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
ou are saying that the video in the OP link (the second video; direct Youtube link here) doesn't clearly show Obama stating that use of chemical weapons is a red line for the US?
No, are you that devoid of comprehension and understanding, the President is the world spokesman for the United States, and the United States and the United States (I would suppose) thru its leadership, its laws and its treaties said this was the way we were going to go, draw the red line here, and Obama didnt say it, the leader of the largest free nation in the world said it, and (whether they will back it up or not (besides France)) they said it. Who was it in France without looking it up? Cuz I know you dont know the President of Frances name off the top of your head from Facebook or P&R.
Now you should see the point. France said it. The USA said it.
Lotta stuff I dont like in the world, but I didnt get to make it all. But he didnt say HE said it, and he didnt say HE didnt say it. He uttered the words with the full faith and credit of the USA behind it. (such as any might have faith or credit with us).

That is asswipe pure and simple, a mincing nutsucking cant with no fucking sensibility, and futile and pointless and nothingness.

I couldn't agree with that last statement more.

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RE: If the US intervenes in Syria, it's all your faults... - 9/4/2013 12:57:39 PM

mnottertail

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Then why make the fucking thing over and over and over as you are doing?

You dont get revenge porn being criminal either, you dont get so very much in life.

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RE: If the US intervenes in Syria, it's all your faults... - 9/4/2013 1:02:11 PM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Then why make the fucking thing over and over and over as you are doing?
You dont get revenge porn being criminal either, you dont get so very much in life.

I think you have mistaken the object of the statement I agreed with.

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RE: If the US intervenes in Syria, it's all your faults... - 9/4/2013 1:07:50 PM

SubudSC

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The pipeline would be a symbolic realization of the Shia land bridge, an alliance stretching from Iran to Iraq to Syria to Hezbollah in Lebannon. Israel would consider that kind of alliance a threat to its security. If the pipeline were completed it would deliver gas to Europe from Iran, undermining US sanctions on Iran which are meant to isolate and destroy its economy. The pipeline would also compete with Qatar for exports, and challenge Turkey's status as an energy corridor. Both countries want the pipeline to remain a dream and nothing more. Saudi Arabia of course views Iran as its nemesis and is threatened and does not want the pipeline to succeed either.
There you go, a 30 second wrap up of pipeline politics in the region. I'm not sure you can wrap your head around it but I had to try. You will note that all those people opposing the pipeline are "Friends of Syria" and US allies.

P.S: Using white Phosphorous on civilian areas is a war crime.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/bbc-and-fallujah-war-crimes-and-media-lies/1228

Also, while agent orange and other defoliants weren't intended to kill civilians it doesn't change the fact that an estimated 400,000 Vietnamese died as a result of their use.

< Message edited by SubudSC -- 9/4/2013 1:10:21 PM >

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