RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue?

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue?

Page: << < prev 4 5 [6] 7 8 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? - 9/15/2013 12:17:22 AM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

Just like all women-hating misogynists have the same belief system?

I don't want to be pedantic but wouldn't "women-hating misogynists" have a psychological disorder rather than a belief system?

_____________________________

(in reply to stef)

Profile

Post #: 101

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? - 9/15/2013 12:37:06 AM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

naughtynick81
"Patriarchy blaming" is a male issue as it enables, bias, prejudice, and sexism.

Clearly you're not terribly fond of the term 'patriarchy'.

Which term would you propose to describe the systematic manner in just about every known human society or culture, that the most powerful and/or prestigious positions have been male monopolies,and that the social and political status of males is invariably superior to that of females?

The only societies where these power dynamics have been (to a degree) successfully challenged and changed are contemporary advanced Western democracies. These challenges and subsequent social changes have been the direct result of feminist activism.

This suggests that the only successful way of eliminating 'patriarchy' (or any other term that you may propose to describe systematic male domination) is through feminist activism. In short nikki, if you want to get rid of the term 'patriarchy' the only known proven way of doing so is through feminism.

Can we look forward to you joining the winning side nikki?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/15/2013 12:38:43 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to naughtynick81)

Profile

Post #: 102

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? - 9/15/2013 12:44:31 AM

metamorfosis

Posts: 1132
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
I don't want to be pedantic but wouldn't "women-hating misogynists" have a psychological disorder rather than a belief system?

I don't want to be pedantic, but why would the one preclude the other?

< Message edited by metamorfosis -- 9/15/2013 12:45:23 AM >

_____________________________

Pam (aka gungadin09)

Forum Freak

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Profile

Post #: 103

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? - 9/15/2013 12:52:05 AM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
I don't want to be pedantic but wouldn't "women-hating misogynists" have a psychological disorder rather than a belief system?

I don't want to be pedantic, but why would the one preclude the other?

'disorder' implies the absence of system.

_____________________________

(in reply to metamorfosis)

Profile

Post #: 104

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? - 9/15/2013 1:02:05 AM

metamorfosis

Posts: 1132
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
'disorder' implies the absence of system.

I don't know that it does. Disorder merely implies the absence of health, and perhaps, the absence of a rational basis for belief.

< Message edited by metamorfosis -- 9/15/2013 1:04:37 AM >

_____________________________

Pam (aka gungadin09)

Forum Freak

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Profile

Post #: 105

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? - 9/15/2013 1:27:34 AM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
'disorder' implies the absence of system.

I don't know that it does. Disorder merely implies the absence of health, and perhaps, the absence of a rational basis for belief.

I'm happy to agree that "women-hating misogynists" display an "absence of a rational basis for belief".

ETA: A phobia such as misogyny is "an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something" http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/phobia?q=phobia

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/15/2013 1:32:14 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to metamorfosis)

Profile

Post #: 106

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? - 9/15/2013 1:39:15 AM

naughtynick81

Posts: 890
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline

lol and as if androphobia doesn't exist. Such like within the patriarchy blamers and all those who think a male is guilty until proven innocent of being a potential rapist, sleazebag, user, or paedophile simply for having a penis.

But this behaviour is a social norm of course.

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Profile

Post #: 107

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? - 9/15/2013 1:45:36 AM

crazyml

Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminChi

FR,

As a reminder, please stick to the topic, which is not other posters. If certain posters constantly lure you into temptation, please avail yourself of the Hide feature.

Excellent advice.

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to VideoAdminChi)

Profile

Post #: 108

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? - 9/15/2013 1:49:57 AM

crazyml

Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline

I've only scooted through the thread... but I didn't see Parenting Rights come up as an issue.

In many countries in the west men are severely disadvantaged when it comes to custody rights, access rights etc. Needless to say, there are plenty of countries (notably Islamic countries) where the exact opposite is true.

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Profile

Post #: 109

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? - 9/15/2013 2:05:56 AM

naughtynick81

Posts: 890
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline

I didn't thoroughly go through this thread myself, but I think domestic violence was mentioned.

But what about the face slapping double standard alone. Not by all people of course but plenty of people consider it justifiable for a woman to slap a man simply because he said something offensive. But if a man tried the same for the same reasons...well ya know.

If a man was being physically offensive, then there would be a very valid reason to slap or do worse.

< Message edited by naughtynick81 -- 9/15/2013 2:06:44 AM >

(in reply to crazyml)

Profile

Post #: 110

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? - 9/15/2013 2:54:22 AM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

Why fucking bother? Anything said that doesn't agree gets "sanitized".

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 9/15/2013 3:03:36 AM >

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to naughtynick81)

Profile

Post #: 111

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? - 9/15/2013 5:20:19 AM

chatterbox24

Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline

I have secretly always been happy to be born a woman, I guess its not secret anymore.
I have also secretly felt bad for men.
As woman, I can stay at home and have kids, work or not work, and not be judged to harshly. Women have more excuses and favor.
I don't have to concern myself about being forced into combat, I don't have to concern myself about society screaming I am a dead beat if I don't bring in most of the money. I can cry and be the weak one if I want, or I can be strong and be the strong one if I want.
Then men who do fit the typical stereotype also many times suffer from the God complex. I have made it so therefore there is nothing bigger then myself. NOT ALL MEN, just some.

Guys you do have it pretty tough.

Its good to be a woman these days.

< Message edited by chatterbox24 -- 9/15/2013 5:21:01 AM >

_____________________________

I am like a box of chocolates, you never know what variety you are going to get on any given day.

My crazy smells like jasmine, cloves and cat nip.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Profile

Post #: 112

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? - 9/15/2013 6:20:37 AM

MsMJAY

Posts: 515
Joined: 3/17/2013
Status: offline

I have always secretly resented being born a woman. Specifically a black woman.
I have always secretly felt bad for women.

As a black woman I don’t have an option to stay home and have kids and not work.
Work is expected of me. (I mean - unless you want to get labeled a negative stereotype.) I don’t get to have excuses and typically at every job I have had (except uniformed service) I have always been the highest educated, usually the most experienced; but always the lowest paid. C’est la vie.

I am not allowed to cry or show weakness because the weight of an entire culture has been placed upon my shoulders and the image of the “strong black woman” is always set in front of me and I am expected to live up to that fictitious bitch.

I have to concern myself with sexual assault. I have survived 3 in my lifetime. 2 while at work and by my superiors.

People take one look at me and assume they know my story and although I am a college educated military veteran everyone assumes I am an uneducated welfare mother. Because If I don’t bring home the money I am instantly judged to be a welfare queen by many in society who seem to have no problem judging me and informing me of the "latest statistics" regarding black women.

I have to watch while unfair comparative images of Oprah are thrown in my face as if one black woman who made it big is representative of the story and experiences of all black women. (when actually no one of any race or gender has ever done what she did).

People feel at liberty to make comments to me regarding my hair (straight or nappy) Who I date (why are you with that white man?) and even where I live (oh- you live on that side of town?).

While white women deal with sexism and black men deal with racism I get slapped around by both and somehow still have to navigate my life to a place of success.

Yes- it’s good to be a woman these days.

But if I am honest………its not all that good.

(in reply to chatterbox24)

Profile

Post #: 113

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? - 9/15/2013 6:34:27 AM

chatterbox24

Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

I have always secretly resented being born a woman. Specifically a black woman.
I have always secretly felt bad for women.

As a black woman I don’t have an option to stay home and have kids and not work.
Work is expected of me. (I mean - unless you want to get labeled a negative stereotype.) I don’t get to have excuses and typically at every job I have had (except uniformed service) I have always been the highest educated, usually the most experienced; but always the lowest paid. C’est la vie.

I am not allowed to cry or show weakness because the weight of an entire culture has been placed upon my shoulders and the image of the “strong black woman” is always set in front of me and I am expected to live up to that fictitious bitch.

I have to concern myself with sexual assault. I have survived 3 in my lifetime. 2 while at work and by my superiors.

People take one look at me and assume they know my story and although I am a college educated military veteran everyone assumes I am an uneducated welfare mother. Because If I don’t bring home the money I am instantly judged to be a welfare queen by many in society who seem to have no problem judging me and informing me of the "latest statistics" regarding black women.

I have to watch while unfair comparative images of Oprah are thrown in my face as if one black woman who made it big is representative of the story and experiences of all black women. (when actually no one of any race or gender has ever done what she did).

People feel at liberty to make comments to me regarding my hair (straight or nappy) Who I date (why are you with that white man?) and even where I live (oh- you live on that side of town?).

While white women deal with sexism and black men deal with racism I get slapped around by both and somehow still have to navigate my life to a place of success.

Yes- it’s good to be a woman these days.

But if I am honest………its not all that good.

I am really sorry MsMJAY. I love the post and the honesty. The reality not at all. Rest assured if it helps at all, not everyone feels like that, in fact I HATE it for you and anyone else who has had to deal with their own brutal truths. We all have battles and struggles in life, some worse then others. HUGS TO YOU SISTER! ( and I don't mean that in a black stereotypical way) A real eye opening post for me, how different but the same we all are.

_____________________________

I am like a box of chocolates, you never know what variety you are going to get on any given day.

My crazy smells like jasmine, cloves and cat nip.

(in reply to MsMJAY)

Profile

Post #: 114

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? - 9/15/2013 8:28:29 AM

Zonie63

Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Clearly you're not terribly fond of the term 'patriarchy'.

Which term would you propose to describe the systematic manner in just about every known human society or culture, that the most powerful and/or prestigious positions have been male monopolies,and that the social and political status of males is invariably superior to that of females?

The main issue that I would see with terms like "patriarchy" and the implication that it was applied in a "systematic manner" is that it makes it seem as if "patriarchy" was planned out in advance some 100,000 years ago (or perhaps even longer) when humans first started walking the planet. In my limited studies of history, I have never gotten the impression that "patriarchy" was some sort of insidious plot on the part of men to keep women down.

It happened in just about every known human society or culture mainly out of biological necessity. Women are/were far more indispensable to the continuation of the tribe/clan/culture, which required that they be placed in roles which kept them relatively protected and sheltered. It wasn't due to any great conspiracy, nor was it even necessarily viewed as something "oppressive." The reason we often hear "women and children first" is because they're the ones most indispensable to the survival of the community.

Over the course of millennia, humans have had plenty of time to think about their situation, philosophize over it, make up whole religions and social/political systems - and "patriarchy" seems to have been the result of our tendency to standardize and codify everything into some sort of "tradition" with (in many cultures) edicts carrying legal force.

Of course, in today's world, feminists are correct to question whether any of these older ideas and traditions are even necessary in this day and age. The past few centuries have seen enormous changes in challenging the old order, much of it quite revolutionary in its scope. Feminism and other reactions against "Patriarchy" would certainly be a natural result, just as other reactions against abuses of power were going on in general.

As a term, I think "Patriarchy" seems a bit limited and implies a slightly skewed and oversimplified version of history.

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Profile

Post #: 115

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? - 9/15/2013 10:41:12 AM

naughtynick81

Posts: 890
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

As woman, I can stay at home and have kids, work or not work, and not be judged to harshly. Women have more excuses and favor.

Yep, precisely.

For anyone, how often have they heard a woman being called a loser? Sure, it happens, but rarely. When it does, it's always in a light hearted manner. On the other hand, it gets used against men all the time.

Female losers seem to be a rare species regarding how much it's used that way.

A woman isn't anywhere near as harshly judged as men in many aspects, such like when she doesn't have her own house, doesn't have a car, doesn't have a job, lives with her parents etc etc.

A man is expected to have a lot more substance than what's expected out of women if he wants an acceptable status in the social world, not in the business world.

(in reply to Zonie63)

Profile

Post #: 116

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? - 9/15/2013 11:47:41 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

I am not allowed to cry or show weakness because the weight of an entire culture has been placed upon my shoulders and the image of the “strong black woman” is always set in front of me and I am expected to live up to that fictitious bitch.

You know, come to think of it, I don't recall ever seeing a black woman cry in any film. That's very sad. As was the whole of your post - though powerful too.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to MsMJAY)

Profile

Post #: 117

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? - 9/15/2013 1:01:51 PM

AurumArgent

Posts: 9
Joined: 7/26/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Something I don't see on your list, Tazzy is that men do not get a say in whether or not a female should get an abortion. Yet if she elects to keep the child, he is responsible for child support. There is an inequity here, though I admit I don't know how to word it succinctly.

'My body, my choice... his responsibility' sums that up.

To add to the original list though,

The invalidation of natural male biological advantages.

Examples:

Men tend to have significantly greater upper body strength, its only natural that this will have an effect in a physically demanding job.

Men tend to be designed to specialize more readily, being exceptional in one area while being deficient in one or many others.
The highest and the lowest IQ ranges are dominated by men.

Testosterone increases aggression, and a certain level of aggression is necessary for effective negotiation. Especially about things like compensation for work product.

Yet any time these advantages produce a statistical disparity it is assumed to be a result of evil discrimination that must be legally punished rather then the results of millennia of survival of the fittest and aspects of men that should be celebrated.

Isn't valuing people for their differences what diversity and tolerance is supposed to be all about?

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Profile

Post #: 118

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? - 9/15/2013 1:05:05 PM

MsMJAY

Posts: 515
Joined: 3/17/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

quote:

As woman, I can stay at home and have kids, work or not work, and not be judged to harshly. Women have more excuses and favor.

Yep, precisely.

For anyone, how often have they heard a woman being called a loser? Sure, it happens, but rarely. When it does, it's always in a light hearted manner. On the other hand, it gets used against men all the time.

Female losers seem to be a rare species regarding how much it's used that way.

A woman isn't anywhere near as harshly judged as men in many aspects, such like when she doesn't have her own house, doesn't have a car, doesn't have a job, lives with her parents etc etc.

A man is expected to have a lot more substance than what's expected out of women if he wants an acceptable status in the social world, not in the business world.

All of that might be true in your little world. But none if it is true in mine. We don't get called "losers." We get called "Welfare Queens, Moochers, lazy ho's, hood rats and dregs on society." I even heard a certain radio shock jock refer to us as "fleas on the back of a dog." So please excuse me if I think you are not being judged more harshly than I am.

(in reply to naughtynick81)

Profile

Post #: 119

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? - 9/15/2013 1:25:52 PM

GotSteel

Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
I don't want to be pedantic but wouldn't "women-hating misogynists" have a psychological disorder rather than a belief system?

I wouldn't say so. To use an example we're both familiar with Fred Phelps Sr. , seems like the man was mentally ill. The entire church his father had built left when he started preaching his disease. The only ones left where his family who were pretty well stuck. Now his children are stuck believing the same trash not because of a chemical imbalance in their brains but because of the belief system they were raised into.

Same thing with misogyny, it doesn't require a chemical imbalance just a good deal of childhood indoctrination.

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Profile

Post #: 120