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RE: ObamaCare and Making it Work for You - 9/22/2013 7:40:24 PM

BenevolentM

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If you paid into insurance, that doesn't really count either. It how much cash do you have in hand? Cash is your membership card and as such only the wealthy are entitled.

If you are not among the wealthy, they figure there is no loss to society.

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RE: ObamaCare and Making it Work for You - 9/22/2013 7:46:08 PM

BenevolentM

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The Republicans are intolerant because they figure that industry is what makes the world go round and they figure that the wealthy are creators of wealth and therefore are industrious. It is obvious that many assumptions are being made. If you minimize the number of assumptions, you must acknowledge that everyone is important enough to receive medical care and are important enough not to be regarded as an externality.

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RE: ObamaCare and Making it Work for You - 9/22/2013 8:14:10 PM

Phydeaux

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

The Republicans are intolerant because they figure that industry is what makes the world go round and they figure that the wealthy are creators of wealth and therefore are industrious. It is obvious that many assumptions are being made. If you minimize the number of assumptions, you must acknowledge that everyone is important enough to receive medical care and are important enough not to be regarded as an externality.

If you minimize the number of assumptions, you eliminate the assumption that anyone is entitled to medical care in the first place.

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RE: ObamaCare and Making it Work for You - 9/22/2013 8:32:31 PM

BenevolentM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

The proponents for ObamaCare are not proponents of life though they claim to be. When life becomes inconvenient, they prefer death.

If what I said is untrue, then why were they willing to compromise on this point? Why was this the fault line?

Though pragmatism may be the overt excuse, it was a fault line for the Democrats because it showed that life was not a core value. As such even if they intend to repair the damage that was brought about by the Republicans they may never achieve the alleged initial goal because this is a fault line. Here they are weak.

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RE: ObamaCare and Making it Work for You - 9/22/2013 8:45:40 PM

BenevolentM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

The Republicans are intolerant because they figure that industry is what makes the world go round and they figure that the wealthy are creators of wealth and therefore are industrious. It is obvious that many assumptions are being made. If you minimize the number of assumptions, you must acknowledge that everyone is important enough to receive medical care and are important enough not to be regarded as an externality.

If you minimize the number of assumptions, you eliminate the assumption that anyone is entitled to medical care in the first place.

I would say you are referring to a degenerate case. Why assume some are entitled? One must assume that some are entitled because non-intervention results in a tragic and needless loss. If mankind felt that the way was not to intervene, we would never have evolved to the point were we can contemplate ways of saving ourselves if a planet killer comet or asteroid was heading our way. What makes us unique is our willingness to ignore the non-interference directive. We muddle and thereby play God.

From a Christian point of view playing God is not the problem. Thinking we are God is. We were after all made in the image of God; hence, it is natural to play God. It is by His edict and design. We must oppose death when it is feasible to do so.

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RE: ObamaCare and Making it Work for You - 9/22/2013 8:54:11 PM

BenevolentM

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As we become better at playing God we will become closer to God.

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RE: ObamaCare and Making it Work for You - 9/22/2013 8:56:05 PM

Phydeaux

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

The Republicans are intolerant because they figure that industry is what makes the world go round and they figure that the wealthy are creators of wealth and therefore are industrious. It is obvious that many assumptions are being made. If you minimize the number of assumptions, you must acknowledge that everyone is important enough to receive medical care and are important enough not to be regarded as an externality.

If you minimize the number of assumptions, you eliminate the assumption that anyone is entitled to medical care in the first place.

I would say you are referring to a degenerate case. Why assume some are entitled? One must assume that some are entitled because non-intervention results in a tragic and needless loss. If mankind felt that the way was not to intervene, we would never have evolved to the point were we can contemplate ways of saving ourselves if a planet killer comet or asteroid was heading our way. What makes us unique is our willingness to ignore the non-interference directive. We muddle and thereby play God.

From a Christian point of view playing God is not the problem. Thinking we are God is. We were after all made in the image of God; hence, it is natural to play God. It is by His edict and design. We must oppose death when it is feasible to do so.

There are so many fallacies here I don't really know where to begin.

I don't assume any are entitled. I don't believe any are entitled. You get what you earn in this life - sometimes.

I do believe in christian charity to help others - but you cannot enforce a christian responsibility as a perview of gvt. As christ said - render to ceasar what is ceasar's. He also said the poor will be always with you.

God is the author of life - both beginning and end.

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RE: ObamaCare and Making it Work for You - 9/22/2013 9:03:25 PM

BenevolentM

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Since we are not God, but are obliged to play God, we are also beggars, begging God for His Grace. Help us Lord to become more like You. One can win favor through merit, having tried.

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RE: ObamaCare and Making it Work for You - 9/23/2013 8:05:19 PM

BenevolentM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I do believe in christian charity to help others - but you cannot enforce a christian responsibility as a perview of gvt. As christ said - render to ceasar what is ceasar's. He also said the poor will be always with you.

No one can ignore the truth, not even the government. There are side effects to ignoring the truth. To that extent to which Christianity is the truth, it cannot be ignored. The logic of government sadly speaking is often not even in agreement with the laws of physics. It too is subject to flights of euphoric or hellish fantasy.

Christ was slippery as such I would not take these words too literally. When Jesus said that the poor will always be with us what was he responding to? What was the context of this remark? He was responding to an someone who had taken His words too literally. God is the sole Law Giver. God can bend space and time and what comes forth is not falsehood, but a Revelation.

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RE: ObamaCare and Making it Work for You - 9/23/2013 8:21:50 PM

BenevolentM

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When Jesus gave the man who was blind from birth sight the Pharisees who were a witness debated among themselves if Jesus had committed a crime because the Miracle was performed on the Sabbath. The Pharisees were telling God what the law was and what God can or cannot do. The same was true of the Apostle who scalded the woman.

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RE: ObamaCare and Making it Work for You - 9/23/2013 9:04:13 PM

BenevolentM

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Why do we want to go to Mars? Because we can. Why do some want universal healthcare? For the same reason. The hypocrisy of the Republicans is amazing. They crash the economy, then turn around to claim that they are its guardian.

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RE: ObamaCare and Making it Work for You - 9/23/2013 9:29:02 PM

BenevolentM

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Is it scary? Yes it is. We are venturing into the unknown which is why the Republicans need to come to the table and bring what wisdom they have to offer to keep the ceiling of the world from falling. But that is not what they are doing now is it? They want the sky to fall. I fail to see how that is patriotic. It is nice to be able to buy your way through problems, but isn't the underlying paradigm a wee bit too simplistic?

You can get your ass to Mars, but you won't; things are for you good enough as they are. It is called progress. Some of it isn't good, but we try because we are human. The Republicans settled for their version of a pollyannaish fantasy and were more than happy to follow through with it to the bitter end. Is universal healthcare less of a pollyannaish fantasy than control of the middle east? At least with universal healthcare we are getting something for all of our trouble, security, real security, not the phony sort.

< Message edited by BenevolentM -- 9/23/2013 9:32:11 PM >

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RE: ObamaCare and Making it Work for You - 9/23/2013 10:09:08 PM

BenevolentM

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Abortion and contraception are controversies surrounding ObamaCare. I see it as important to realize that the teachings of the Church on this matter may be right. Though we are expected to play God, we are not God. What the Church is presenting us with are taboos, but they are taboos with a rational basis. I feel that the lack of deference to the Church has been shameful.

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RE: ObamaCare and Making it Work for You - 9/23/2013 10:15:38 PM

BenevolentM

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In its teaching the Church is showing deference to God.

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RE: ObamaCare and Making it Work for You - 9/23/2013 10:33:12 PM

BenevolentM

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Because we are not God our minds are fuzzy and we have the capacity to Sin. It is the price you pay for being almost God. A lesser being would have no such capacity as it would lack the capacity to aspire to be God. The capacity to Sin is not beyond our grasp.

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RE: ObamaCare and Making it Work for You - 9/23/2013 10:36:28 PM

BenevolentM

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The nature of God on the other hand is the mystery of mysteries.

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RE: ObamaCare and Making it Work for You - 9/24/2013 7:05:20 PM

BenevolentM

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The climate change debate aside, an unwillingness to refrain from casting off externalities appears to be what Republicans are all about. They seem to want to put the monkey on someone else's back to the greatest extent possible. Suppose you had a city on Mars. Would its citizens be taxed on the air they breath? Yes, they would be. It is less of a problem on Earth, but smog is a by product of human activity. Even if the climate were not changing as a result of human industry, we would still have smog and smog is something we could do without.

The Republicans use the compound interest formula to argue their case, but the same is true for taxes and even having to pay your employees a salary, and taken a step further to pay for anything; just hoard it.

Would a colony on Mars tax its citizens for the number of children they have? They might. They may even go even further than that.

The only thing that can be debated is whether or not we have to. Can we get away with it? The Democrats are inclined to say no. The Republicans are inclined to say yes. So does this debate have anything to do with the truth?

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RE: ObamaCare and Making it Work for You - 9/27/2013 5:04:42 PM

BenevolentM

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As an observer I cannot help but give medicine as it is currently practiced a bad grade. Our healthcare system sucks. The Democrats made a proposal whereas the Republicans have no counter proposal. Who am I to side with someone who says there is no problem or the person who says there is and there is a solution?

Healthcare has become friendly with death and it is so in your face. I just got a scalding about me wondering why she has yet to receive the blood test that her doctor ordered. Apparently, I fail to understand their philosophy and it was surmised that perhaps I didn't get the lecture yet. I am being so expertly manipulated. Oh, blood tests aren't important. Since when? She has to put up with this shit. The alternative is to get even less care.

If you call 911 for example you have to get off their program. They don't do 911. Oh yes there are some services they provide you with where you may not need to call 911 in theory, but the last time I called them in the middle of the night, their 24/7 number, I got an answering service. After 5 pm what you get is their answering service.

This is what our money pays for, shit.

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RE: ObamaCare and Making it Work for You - 9/27/2013 5:25:54 PM

BenevolentM

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There is a threat that if you ask for too much, you are going to get dropped altogether like being over qualified and therefore qualified for nothing. Don't wonder about the supplies that were promised not showing up. Get with the program and accept our shit with grace.

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RE: ObamaCare and Making it Work for You - 9/27/2013 6:45:49 PM

defiantbadgirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I do believe in christian charity to help others - but you cannot enforce a christian responsibility as a perview of gvt. As christ said - render to ceasar what is ceasar's. He also said the poor will be always with you.

Jesus fed the poor and healed the sick. I don't know which part of the bible this is in, but I remember reading something about Jesus telling a rich man he needed to give to the poor and when he refused, Jesus saying rich greedy people will have a difficult time making it into heaven. How would Jesus feel about people deliberately fighting to prevent the poor from being healed?

< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 9/27/2013 6:46:25 PM >

_____________________________

Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.

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