RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (Full Version)

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Kirata -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/13/2013 8:06:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

But... uh.... if I wanted to defend myself from being shot why aren't I looking more at body armor than pistols?

Quite a few reasons, actually. Interceptor Level IIa body armor, for example, weighs 16+ pounds with trauma plates. And, of course, it does not protect your face and head. More importantly, you're alone with no backup. The armor may block penetration if you're hit, but your body is still absorbing 200+ ft/lbs of force (depending on the cartridge). That's going to put you down and stun you, and then you're a sitting duck while the guy walks over and puts one in your head. Body armor in a military/police unit can save your life because you have buddies to lay down suppressive fire and get you the hell out of there. But by yourself? Not much good.

K.



DaddySatyr -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/13/2013 8:12:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

But... uh.... if I wanted to defend myself from being shot why aren't I looking more at body armor than pistols?

Quite a few reasons, actually. Interceptor Level IIa body armor, for example, weighs 16+ pounds with trauma plates. And, of course, it does not protect your face and head. More importantly, you're alone with no backup. The armor may block penetration if you're hit, but your body is still absorbing 100-200 ft/lbs or more of force (depending on the cartridge). That's going to put you down and stun you, and then you're a sitting duck while the guy walks over and puts one in your head. Body armor in a military/police unit can save your life because you have buddies to lay down suppressive fire and get you the hell out of there. But by yourself? Not much good.

K.


On top of that, you'll find that in most places where gun control laws are considered restrictive, there are similar laws on body armor. You must have what the law-makers consider a "valid reason" for owning it.



MasterCaneman -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/13/2013 8:31:07 AM)

And I'd like to add, body armor doesn't like being worn. I'm not sure if the standards have changed, but exposure to heat and moisture tends to delaminate it and reduce its effectiveness. I had a friend from high school who became a state trooper out west, and he had to pay a fortune for his first set and was pretty pissed when he had to replace it three years later just because he wore it. And of course, his department wouldn't comp him for it. And most of the body armor that's available now is only rated for fairly low-powered rounds like the pocket-pistol calibers up to .38/9mm. Anything over and above required additional plates which adds bulk and weight. And they're hot. He showed me his old vest, and you could see he was sweating rivers in it.



Nosathro -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/13/2013 12:34:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Si vis pacem, para bellum - "If you want peace, prepare for war"

To live in a country with the largest military force because the government believes the "If you want peace, prepare for war" motto, and then say disarming only the law abiding citizens will bring less murder (peace) is just fucking ridiculous and hypocritical. American's are smart enough to see through this BS, that's why they haven't ever been able to take our guns.

Is the gun argument really any more complex than Si vis pacem, para bellum?


You should look at Japan. It works there.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/13/2013 12:37:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Si vis pacem, para bellum - "If you want peace, prepare for war"

To live in a country with the largest military force because the government believes the "If you want peace, prepare for war" motto, and then say disarming only the law abiding citizens will bring less murder (peace) is just fucking ridiculous and hypocritical. American's are smart enough to see through this BS, that's why they haven't ever been able to take our guns.

Is the gun argument really any more complex than Si vis pacem, para bellum?


You should look at Japan. It works there.


Only because we're there looking over their shoulder. If we weren't, they would have a choice of militarizing or acquiescing to China.



Nosathro -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/13/2013 12:49:16 PM)

Well let me see record of bear attacks:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America

And on the average 30,000 people in the US are killed by guns. I am sure all of you have your own views, some good some not so good. I am reminded of what Kirk Douglas recently stated in a speech "The time of the cowboy is over" but then again there is Cosplay.



Politesub53 -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/13/2013 5:05:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Making shit up ?

Oh you mean like the fact bullets did go through the wall, and people in the adjacent theatre did indeed get shot.

No, I mean like the parts I pointed out in those alphabetic characters called "words" above the picture.

K.


Come come old chap. You said I was making shit up, I wasnt.

Still, its wonderful to know some of you feel people should take a firearm to the cinema, just in case.




PeonForHer -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/13/2013 5:21:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Still, its wonderful to know some of you feel people should take a firearm to the cinema, just in case.



Fuck that politically-correct pansy-assed liberal shit. I'd go dressed top to toe in Kevlar and take a decent-sized machine gun with a quick-erect tripod mounting, plus a few grenades.



Politesub53 -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/13/2013 5:23:43 PM)

Yes, but then again you live in Bristol. [8D]



thishereboi -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/13/2013 5:30:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

What facts were those? I proposed a fictitious scenario where the gunman knowing that the theater is full of people with weapons doesn't show up. You claimed I was trying to spin something about bullets going through walls because it was mentioned in the thread. You were wrong. Now you are trying to claim you proved something? [8|]


Ive proved my intial claim about bullets going through walls was correct.




Tha'ts nice dear but I never said they didn't.



PeonForHer -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/13/2013 5:32:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Yes, but then again you live in Bristol. [8D]


I bet you wouldn't even know how to mount a machine gun on a tripod in a cinema, would you? *Superior chortle*.



Politesub53 -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/13/2013 5:37:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

What facts were those? I proposed a fictitious scenario where the gunman knowing that the theater is full of people with weapons doesn't show up. You claimed I was trying to spin something about bullets going through walls because it was mentioned in the thread. You were wrong. Now you are trying to claim you proved something? [8|]


Ive proved my intial claim about bullets going through walls was correct.




Tha'ts nice dear but I never said they didn't.


Well duh, I proved what I said took place, actually took place dear.



Politesub53 -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/13/2013 5:40:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Yes, but then again you live in Bristol. [8D]


I bet you wouldn't even know how to mount a machine gun on a tripod in a cinema, would you? *Superior chortle*.


Indeed, but my cinematic experiences were more to do with learning to undo bra straps in the dark.



stef -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/13/2013 5:47:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Indeed, but my cinematic experiences were more to do with learning to undo bra straps in the dark.

Your mother must have loved going to the cinema with you.



PeonForHer -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/13/2013 5:49:46 PM)

My early cinema experiences were much more gentle and romantic, PS. 'Gone With the Wind' at a drive-in. . . just me, my lovely lady, and an 88mm mounted on our Jeep.



PeonForHer -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/13/2013 6:00:57 PM)

quote:

Your mother must have loved going to the cinema with you.


Whoa. Bit low, Stef.



stef -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/13/2013 6:29:23 PM)

Hush, you.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/13/2013 6:56:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

My early cinema experiences were much more gentle and romantic, PS. 'Gone With the Wind' at a drive-in. . . just me, my lovely lady, and an 88mm mounted on our Jeep.

Kraut sympathizer



BamaD -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/13/2013 7:00:28 PM)

The biggest problem with accuracy in the theater was the low light or dark atmosphere. Even with an accurate handgun its difficult to line up the sights in the dark from a significant distance. In the theater the situation would boil down to tactics. If you're not within 5 or maybe 8 rows from the shooter you will have to work your way in closer without getting shot. Keep in mind the shooter has the same accuracy problem in the dark. He's just shooting indiscriminately every witch way with a crap load of ammo and guns as fast as he can. The fact that he has a rifle probably doesn't mean much if anything because the armed citizen, unknown to the shooter has a tactical advantage in that regard. I believe the shooter also had a shotgun witch would be the more problematic gun.


Three comments on this.

One the shooter was standing in front of the screen and the movie was running giving a well illuminated target,
Two due to the crappy large capacity magazines he was using the AR jammed almost instantly "forcing" him to use the more deadly shotgun
Three he was a coward, he surrendered at the first sign of armed opposition.



MasterCaneman -> RE: Lets have another gun - antigun thread... (9/13/2013 8:49:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

My early cinema experiences were much more gentle and romantic, PS. 'Gone With the Wind' at a drive-in. . . just me, my lovely lady, and an 88mm mounted on our Jeep.


As a point of reference, the biggest piece of artillery you could mount on a Jeep (WWII to the '80s) was a 106mm recoilless rifle, completely different that a locked-breech, hydraulically-compensated, fixed-base system that the German 88mm Flak 18/36/37/41 Flugzeugabwehrkanone, of which the base plate and trunnion mechanism is roughly double the dry weight of a WWII M1 Jeep.

Also note that Flugzeugabwehrkanone would also make a great safeword.[;)]



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