Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators - 9/12/2013 4:28:23 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
It is ironic, that I, who believe that the President has lied repeatedly in office, who caused the death of people working for the US government through his inaction, who violated the privacy rights of the people would actually probably argue against an impeachment.

Such a proceeding, motivated by the syrian situation, is more or less just legal harassment. It is also a waste of time, as there is no way a trial in the senate results in conviction, with a Democrat majority.

To be fair, my ire on this one has nothing to do with Syria. It has to do with a whopping 90% saying one thing and Obama saying another. So I see it as a failure of representation and democracy having zip to do with Syria.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators - 9/12/2013 5:36:57 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
    quote:

    THE PRESIDENT'S CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY TO CONDUCT MILITARY OPERATIONS AGAINST TERRORISTS AND NATIONS SUPPORTING THEM
    The President has broad constitutional power to take military action in response to the terrorist attacks on the United States on September 11, 2001. Congress has acknowledged this inherent executive power in both the War Powers Resolution and the Joint Resolution passed by Congress on September 14, 2001.
    The President has constitutional power not only to retaliate against any person, organization, or State suspected of involvement in terrorist attacks on the United States, but also against foreign States suspected of harboring or supporting such organizations.
    The President may deploy military force preemptively against terrorist organizations or the States that harbor or support them, whether or not they can be linked to the specific terrorist incidents of September 11.

Nothing in that first part, since Syria had nothing to do with the attacks and al Qaeda is actually involved in fighting on the rebel's side.
Nothing in the second part, either, since, again, Syria had nothing to do with the attacks, nor have they been suspected of harboring or supporting those that did (again, al Qaeda is fighting against the Syrian government).
The third part, however, is where things get dicey. Syria is considered a terrorist sponsor, by the State Dept., right? However, we aren't actually attacking any terror organization, unless you consider the Assad regime a terror organization, which would then mean we need to effect a major change in their governance, which isn't going to happen, according to the President.
That's the gray AUMF authority.

Actually since Syria does support and harbor Hezbolla and other terrorist organizations they can be attacked under the AUMF.
quote:

On to the War Powers Act...

The War Powers Act is unconstitutional, even a trivial google seacrh will turn up many legal scholars that say so. Every time it has been ignored Congress has not gone to court because they know the courts will throw it out.


So, basing President Obama as having the authority because of the War Powers Act (which MN has done), is... ?

Got links to show that Syria supports and harbors Hezbollah? I know Syria is on the State Dept's list of terrorist states, but, as for them supporting and/or harboring Hezbollah...




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators - 9/13/2013 6:34:29 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:


So, basing President Obama as having the authority because of the War Powers Act (which MN has done), is... ?


I have made no such demonstration, as Barry Goldwater did, I hold the war powers act unconstitutional on its face. I don't believe I have mentioned the war powers act in my proofs here, although I have seen a rather dishonest clipping out of context of the AUMF. Remember the big HE DECIDES? Done; over; fat lady has trilled the last note.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators - 9/13/2013 6:54:26 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:

So, basing President Obama as having the authority because of the War Powers Act (which MN has done), is... ?

I have made no such demonstration, as Barry Goldwater did, I hold the war powers act unconstitutional on its face. I don't believe I have mentioned the war powers act in my proofs here, although I have seen a rather dishonest clipping out of context of the AUMF. Remember the big HE DECIDES? Done; over; fat lady has trilled the last note.


Boy, fucked that up again, didn't I? Damn.
My apology for that mistake, MN. <--- no joke or sarcasm. I was wrong.

Edited to add...

The final link you gave points to the powers of the CiC and included the powers under the War Powers Act. That is where I made my mistake.



< Message edited by DesideriScuri -- 9/13/2013 6:58:51 AM >


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators - 9/13/2013 6:57:28 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
Happens, let's move on to Colorado now.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators - 9/13/2013 7:02:20 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Happens, let's move on to Colorado now.


I'd much rather stay in Ohio. I know my limitations and I'm not sure I'm coordinated enough to even get skis on, let alone stay alive going downhill...


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators - 9/13/2013 8:25:46 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
Its interesting question the WPA.
One that neither congress nor the white house are sure and so neither moves to get it adjudicated.
I'd never think I'd agree with Mnottertail on, well, anything. But lo, I'm inclined to agree, although I think the reporting requirements are probably constitutional.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators - 9/13/2013 8:35:48 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
There is nothing in the constitution (not even advise and consent) which would indicate that the president reports to the congress.

They are fucking stupid, they talk into microphones.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators - 9/13/2013 8:44:59 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
Nonetheless its more probably than not to be ruled constitutional as an extension of the Congresses right to know (ie., ability to compel information).

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators - 9/13/2013 8:46:20 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
there is no right to know in the constitution. In fact, the SCOTUS has sort of ruled the other way.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators - 9/13/2013 9:07:47 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DianeB269


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

That's a good thing.
If elected public officials aren't going to listen to the people who put them in office they need to go.
They're there to do our bidding not to try to tell us what to do!
It should be made abundantly clear to any candidate before they take the oath that they are the "hired help" not the Management, The People are the Management.


That's what libtards do...It's all about them and not the people...



That is very easily demonstrated to be a nearly exclusively nutsucker attribute.


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DianeB269)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators - 9/13/2013 1:01:21 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Two Colorado Democrats who provided crucial support for a slate of tough new gun-control laws were voted out of office on Tuesday ~New York Times

The result should not surprise. The will of the people was clear...

According to a Quinnipiac University poll last month, voters in the state opposed the gun laws by a margin of 54%-40%. Democrats were supportive of the measures, 78%-16%, while Republicans more strongly opposed them, 89% to 7%. More importantly for electoral purposes, a majority of independent voters opposed the laws, 56%-39%. ~CNN

Nevertheless, big buckets of cash from anti-gun groups poured into Colorado in an attempt to defeat them...

The recall battle drew more than $3.5 million in campaign contributions. But the vast majority of the funds - nearly $3 million - came from opponents of the recall drive who support stricter gun control, figures from the secretary of state's office showed. ~Reuters

But no cigar this time. The voters talked, and money walked.

K.



But the laws are still there.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators - 9/13/2013 1:13:55 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
State reps are supposed to vote the will of the people.
These 2 didn't.
They're gone now.
Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

If the will of the people is to repeal the law, I have a feeling it will be done now as this was a bit of a warning shot.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators - 9/13/2013 1:36:23 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

State reps are supposed to vote the will of the people.
These 2 didn't.
They're gone now.
Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

If the will of the people is to repeal the law, I have a feeling it will be done now as this was a bit of a warning shot.


They can run again. As to the laws, wait and see. Oh and the two were in a weak position anyway, so they were easy. You may want to consider the failure of the GOP in Missouri on their failure to override the Governors veto on their attempt to make enforcing Federal Laws and allow criminal to sue.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/11/us/missouri-gun-laws-challenge/index.html

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators - 9/13/2013 2:07:28 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

State reps are supposed to vote the will of the people.
These 2 didn't.
They're gone now.
Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

If the will of the people is to repeal the law, I have a feeling it will be done now as this was a bit of a warning shot.


They can run again. As to the laws, wait and see. Oh and the two were in a weak position anyway, so they were easy. You may want to consider the failure of the GOP in Missouri on their failure to override the Governors veto on their attempt to make enforcing Federal Laws and allow criminal to sue.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/11/us/missouri-gun-laws-challenge/index.html

Actually, I'd rather consider the failure of a certain person to post on topic (this is Colorado we're talking about, not MO) or write a coherent sentence.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators - 9/13/2013 2:17:14 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

State reps are supposed to vote the will of the people.
These 2 didn't.
They're gone now.
Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

If the will of the people is to repeal the law, I have a feeling it will be done now as this was a bit of a warning shot.


They can run again. As to the laws, wait and see. Oh and the two were in a weak position anyway, so they were easy. You may want to consider the failure of the GOP in Missouri on their failure to override the Governors veto on their attempt to make enforcing Federal Laws and allow criminal to sue.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/11/us/missouri-gun-laws-challenge/index.html

Actually, I'd rather consider the failure of a certain person to post on topic (this is Colorado we're talking about, not MO) or write a coherent sentence.


Would this help? . This is a topic on a certain political issue not States.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators - 9/13/2013 6:54:29 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
What part of "RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators" can't you read?

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators - 9/13/2013 8:45:06 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
There were some others that were not specifically commenting on Senators being recalled in CO but you didn't mention much to them. Your comments are not on topic either.

From what I read the Senators were recalled because they pissed of the voters. First with the gun bill, then limiting the time for people to speak on the gun bill, and finally ignoring what a large portion of the voters wanted done. I think that it worked out well for the voters to be able to do this, if there were only something like this for all elected officials.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

What part of "RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators" can't you read?



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators - 9/13/2013 9:11:05 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

From what I read the Senators were recalled because they pissed of the voters. First with the gun bill, then limiting the time for people to speak on the gun bill, and finally ignoring what a large portion of the voters wanted done. I think that it worked out well for the voters to be able to do this, if there were only something like this for all elected officials.



That's exactly what I was referring to earlier had you bothered to look at post #33.

My post that you commented on was in reply to someone who brought Missouri legislators and a totally different situation into the argument.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators - 9/14/2013 10:47:39 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
Post 33 is just you tagging on Nosathro for something you didn't mention to any else in this topic. That is what I was pointing out, but we all know that hell will freeze over before anyone in P&R admits or stops that kind of shit. I see the comment about MO legislators having as much to do with the topic as the War Powers Act. Really do we need the mods to step in all the time or can we all be more of adults about it?

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Colorado Voters Recall Two Democrat Senators Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.125