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RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol - 9/17/2013 9:05:14 PM   
metamorfosis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
We're saying that relationships last better when there's a lot of compatibility and agreement.


This isn't about "a lot of compatibility and agreement". This is about one issue.

quote:

And where is it written that to be a submissive you have to be miserable most of the time?


Anyone who would be "miserable most of the time" if they couldn't drink has bigger problems.

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RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol - 9/17/2013 10:30:28 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
We're saying that relationships last better when there's a lot of compatibility and agreement.


This isn't about "a lot of compatibility and agreement". This is about one issue.

And for some, alcohol is a big enough incompatibility issue to kill a relationship.

quote:


quote:

And where is it written that to be a submissive you have to be miserable most of the time?


Anyone who would be "miserable most of the time" if they couldn't drink has bigger problems.


The full context of the above is that you said "So what you're saying is... a dominant should never ask a submissive to do anything that's actually hard." That wasn't solely about alcohol, it was about anything.

While I'm not sure how that translated into being miserable most of the time, Des wasn't responding to drinking, she was responding to your "anything" comment.

And, you know, he can ask me to do some things that are hard. And other things that are hard may simply not be reasonable to ask for. This is where compatibility comes in.


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RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol - 9/17/2013 11:05:14 PM   
metamorfosis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
And for some, alcohol is a big enough incompatibility issue to kill a relationship.


Fair enough. I'm just surprised it's a big enough incompatibility issue for many people.


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RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol - 9/17/2013 11:21:19 PM   
SerWhiteTiger


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From: Why is my name Florida? That's a state!
Status: offline 		Drinking and topping is not much safer than drinking and driving.

Same with drinking and bottoming actually, although at least you're only likely to hurt yourself, I guess.

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RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol - 9/17/2013 11:25:32 PM   
metamorfosis


Posts: 1132
Status: offline 		I don't think the OP was referring to drinking before play.

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RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol - 9/18/2013 12:35:35 AM   
HerrKeuner


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quote:

The way you seem so worried about this, to me it sounds like there's more going on with you than just what you have told us.
Do you see what I implied before? It is quite hard to have the stance I have towards alcohol, which I explained here for the benefit of context, without having some form of this question involved. Am I hiding something? After all I've explained, I'm confident to say "not to my knowledge". The reason why I am concerned about this is because it is a likely issue to appear and, judging by the array of different, thoughtful ideas presented, it doesn't seem clear-cut for others either. If I were to have an autocratic bone in me, I would simply say "a submissive of mine doesn't drink because I say so", but I loathe that kind of autocracy.

As I mentioned before, I've found a possible working compromise. However, I'm glad that this question has spawned all the answers that it has, and even a spin-off thread about another topic. I'd say it makes good reference material.

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RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol - 9/18/2013 1:52:32 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Have you considered that you are making it out to be more than it ought to be?

If you're a good Dominant, you'll attract people who come from a variety of stances on this issue. Sooner or later, somebody will come along that feels the way that you do on the social drinking issue.

Best wishes to you.


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RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol - 9/18/2013 2:35:29 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HerrKeuner

If I were to have an autocratic bone in me, I would simply say "a submissive of mine doesn't drink because I say so", but I loathe that kind of autocracy.



There's a difference, my friend, between trying to "break" a drinker and just setting this kind of thing out as one of your limits (yes, dominants have limits).

If you have decided that you don't want alcohol to be a part of your life, you have every right to be autocratic in that; you not accept anyone into your life who uses (or abuses) alcohol.

I'll assume you're heterosexual. Would you accept a male into your life for an intimate relationship?

Please, don't feed into the bullshit that somehow, a dominant person has to adjust themselves to their partner. Oh, you'll spend some time, alone at your age, looking around for a lady that doesn't drink but, are you willing to sacrifice your code for someone else's or do you want to live your life the way YOU want to live it?

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RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol - 9/18/2013 8:55:18 AM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
And for some, alcohol is a big enough incompatibility issue to kill a relationship.


Fair enough. I'm just surprised it's a big enough incompatibility issue for many people.



Not being to watch football would be a big enough incompatibility issue for many people.

I'm an enophile. I like wine. I collect wine. I enjoy trying to make my own wine. It's one of my hobbies.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr




Please, don't feed into the bullshit that somehow, a dominant person has to adjust themselves to their partner. Oh, you'll spend some time, alone at your age, looking around for a lady that doesn't drink but, are you willing to sacrifice your code for someone else's or do you want to live your life the way YOU want to live it?

I agree with this, which I why I advocated finding someone that shares his values. But, I'm going to say that when it comes to trying to find a partner a submissive/slave shouldn't have to adjust their expectations, either. When I was single I wanted nonsmoking and non-drug using, so I didn't meet people that did either of those things. I didn't have to give up those expectations simply because I'm on this side of the kneel.


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RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol - 9/18/2013 9:22:26 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

But, I'm going to say that when it comes to trying to find a partner a submissive/slave shouldn't have to adjust their expectations, either. When I was single I wanted nonsmoking and non-drug using, so I didn't meet people that did either of those things. I didn't have to give up those expectations simply because I'm on this side of the kneel.



And I didn't mean to suggest that someone who identifies as submissive should give up their wants for a relationship, either but, I think there's a glaring disparity.

We often hear about submissives having limits. Fair dues but, I think because we hear so much about it that some new dominants start getting the idea that what the submissive wants is immovable ("hard limit", anyone?) while dominants are seen as demanding as opposed to having their own wants and desires.

Clearly (for example), you and I wouldn't be a good match. That's fine. That's the way it should be (although I secretly curse fate, at times) but, as an example; why should I "tolerate" someone who has a "limit" where they won't do without alcohol.

Neither is right and neither is wrong.

Now, a submissive (as far as our lifestyle tells us) is want to make "sacrifices" in certain areas.

My lady doesn't like caffeine. I am a Diet Wild Cherry Pepsi© addict. If she weren't willing to "give up some high ground", we wouldn't be together.

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 9/18/2013 9:23:11 AM >

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RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol - 9/18/2013 9:51:10 AM   
OsideGirl


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Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		I agree. I think both sides need to find what is important to them. People forget that just like a vanilla relationship, it's a relationship. Core values count.





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RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol - 9/18/2013 9:55:33 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

And for some, alcohol is a big enough incompatibility issue to kill a relationship.


Ya, I drank too much through my teens and 20s, married another drinker, and when I stopped drinking in the 90s it killed our relationship, as our sex and social life revolved around drinking and hanging with other drinkers.

I can drink in moderation now, but did avoid it for years.

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RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol - 9/18/2013 12:10:54 PM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HerrKeuner

It is quite hard to have the stance I have towards alcohol, which I explained here for the benefit of context, without having some form of this question involved. Am I hiding something? After all I've explained, I'm confident to say "not to my knowledge".


I think you're having trouble maintaining this stance because... it might not be entirely rational.


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RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol - 9/18/2013 2:47:05 PM   
noellesdestiny


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Joined: 9/3/2012
Status: offline 		There is a difference between 2 people going out to eat, and have a few drinks, that a D/s couple playing and drinking.

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RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol - 9/18/2013 2:48:55 PM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: noellesdestiny

There is a difference between 2 people going out to eat, and have a few drinks, that a D/s couple playing and drinking.


He wasn't talking about not drinking during BDSM activities, he was talking about not drinking...ever.


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RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol - 9/18/2013 3:47:15 PM   
Dyfrynt


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quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dyfrynt
If you expect a sub of yours to not drink, you need to make that declaration up front. Then it is in the sub's hands to decide if they are willing to grant you that authority over them.


Are you saying a sub must pre-approve every conceivable order the dominant might give, before their relationship even starts?


Yes. Of course. Precisely that. <Rolls Eyes>

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RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol - 9/18/2013 4:40:39 PM   
HerrKeuner


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: HerrKeuner

It is quite hard to have the stance I have towards alcohol, which I explained here for the benefit of context, without having some form of this question involved. Am I hiding something? After all I've explained, I'm confident to say "not to my knowledge".


I think you're having trouble maintaining this stance because... it might not be entirely rational.

What you mean is that I'm holding to an irrational belief. However, that belief comes from what I'd call perfectly rational questions about its usefulness.

Does alcohol somehow enhance physical performance like, e.g. erythropoietin? Does it bring nutritional advantages that we wouldn't have in its absence? Does it calm thirst or hunger? Do its effects have a positive influence in human beings?

From what I've been able to find out, the answers to all of those questions are "no". Where's the irrational component in rejecting it?

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RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol - 9/18/2013 4:51:52 PM   
Kana


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Joined: 10/24/2006
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quote:

Do you see what I implied before? It is quite hard to have the stance I have towards alcohol, which I explained here for the benefit of context, without having some form of this question involved. Am I hiding something? After all I've explained, I'm confident to say "not to my knowledge". The reason why I am concerned about this is because it is a likely issue to appear and, judging by the array of different, thoughtful ideas presented, it doesn't seem clear-cut for others either. If I were to have an autocratic bone in me, I would simply say "a submissive of mine doesn't drink because I say so", but I loathe that kind of autocracy.

As I mentioned before, I've found a possible working compromise. However, I'm glad that this question has spawned all the answers that it has, and even a spin-off thread about another topic. I'd say it makes good reference material.


Let's start by saying I don't drink. Did it when I was a kid. Damn near died. Don't do it any more.
So I can somewhat get where you come from here and I, as usual, won't give advice.
What I will say is that I don't care if she drinks on occasion, as long as it's not to excess.

(Hell, there's been days I've been like, "Let's get you a drink. If I had your day, I'd be having one.")

That said, I also suspect that this will be far less of a deal than you think. In fact, in many ways not drinking could, and should, well be a huge positive.
Consider how many women have been in bad relationships with men who drink. Think about all the families (Pretty much every one in America) that have a loved one suffering from addiction in one of it's many forms.
Those people aren't going to be upset you don't drink.They are gonna welcome that with open arms.And in a guy who's dating someone's daughter/sister/kin, sobriety is a good thing. That is unless it's because you turn into Freddy Krueger after imbibing. Not to mention (I have no clue where you stand on this issue nor am I trying to open up a can of worms here, just stating a fact) that there's a slew of religious people that see booze as a sin and are anti.That opens up that pool to you too.

But if it's a real big deal for you then just make it clear from the get that this is a dealbreaker.
Don't go surf AA chicks ( I have a sober friend who calls that "shopping in the dented can aisle"). Find a normal healthy chick who shares your morals and values and then work from there.
Do that and 1/2 the rules and situations you are torquing yourself over will dissipate, because they'll be non-discussions and things will go so easily it will leave you amazed.

Play your cards straight,lead with who and what you are,worry about building a relationship, and you'll be OK

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RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol - 9/18/2013 4:59:21 PM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HerrKeuner
What you mean is that I'm holding to an irrational belief. However, that belief comes from what I'd call perfectly rational questions about its usefulness.

Does alcohol somehow enhance physical performance like, e.g. erythropoietin? Does it bring nutritional advantages that we wouldn't have in its absence? Does it calm thirst or hunger? Do its effects have a positive influence in human beings?

From what I've been able to find out, the answers to all of those questions are "no". Where's the irrational component in rejecting it?

Unless I'm mistaken, there have been studies that moderate drinking of red wine has some pretty good benefits. Two of which are antioxidants for the heart and increasing "good" HDL cholesterol.

Is it the only way to encourage those benefits? No. However, it is an option.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol - 9/18/2013 5:35:12 PM   
littlewonder


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quote:

Does it calm thirst or hunger? Do its effects have a positive influence in human beings?


dunno about anyone else but my answer is yes to both of these.

Sometimes I'm just in the mood for a good drink just like sometimes I'm in the mood for a tall glass of good iced tea. It's just a beverage.

Sometimes for me alcohol DOES have a positive influence on me. For one, it makes me a whole helluva lot more friskier. I happen to like sex a whole lot more when I've had a couple of drinks. I'd say Master finds that pretty positive.

I also find that because I have anxiety issues, sometimes a drink just helps to calm me down when I'm having an attack. It relaxes me. What's not positive about that?

The way you are talking about alcohol is like the person who says "if you eat that donut you will die! There is nothing good at all about donuts!". Yeah ok...a donut here or there is not going to kill you and it's not bad for you. It's when you take it in excess that it becomes bad and negative. The same goes for alcohol.

Anything in excess is not good....that includes alcohol and donuts.


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