I like this Pope more and more (Full Version)

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DomKen -> I like this Pope more and more (9/19/2013 9:56:50 AM)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/20/world/europe/pope-bluntly-faults-churchs-focus-on-gays-and-abortion.html?hp&_r=1&

I'm guessing Ratzinger did not anticipate Pope Francis would be his successor.



fucktoyprincess -> RE: I like this Pope more and more (9/19/2013 12:02:03 PM)

Losing followers has a way of causing institutions to redefine their mission statement. [:D]



thishereboi -> RE: I like this Pope more and more (9/19/2013 1:59:16 PM)

That's right, god forbid we suggest there might be the slightest bit of good in this guy.



kdsub -> RE: I like this Pope more and more (9/19/2013 1:59:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Losing followers has a way of causing institutions to redefine their mission statement. [:D]


I think you are wrong here... This man is not changing his views just to stop declining membership. He believes with all his heart and soul that the duty of his church is to all sinners. And that the church should not alienate or exclude anyone for their sins.

Not exactly an acceptance of homosexuality as another creation of God…but… At least he is showing a willingness to accept the idea that since true Godliness is impossible for us to achieve it is time to stop persecuting people for one particular sin when we are all sinners.

Butch



cloudboy -> RE: I like this Pope more and more (9/19/2013 5:55:15 PM)

“Some of the things in it really surprised me,” Father Martin said. “He seems even more of a free-thinker than I thought — creative, experimental, willing to live on the margins, push boundaries back a little bit.”

“A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality,” he told Father Spadaro. “I replied with another question: ‘Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’ We must always consider the person.”

------------

Fantastic. Thanks for posting this article. The Jesuits are the best.




Phydeaux -> RE: I like this Pope more and more (9/19/2013 5:55:33 PM)

Amen.

I like him. I hope he does away with all the gilded sinecures.



kalikshama -> RE: I like this Pope more and more (9/19/2013 6:05:01 PM)

‘Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’

Amen. I was raised Catholic, am now a Unitarian, and am very happy to hear this from this pope.



dcnovice -> RE: I like this Pope more and more (9/19/2013 6:12:19 PM)

FR

This papa is indeed proving a gaudium magnum. Ad multos annos!



GotSteel -> RE: I like this Pope more and more (9/19/2013 9:37:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
That's right, god forbid we suggest there might be the slightest bit of good in this guy.


So far I like the guy. Seems like he's a good human being.



dcnovice -> RE: I like this Pope more and more (9/20/2013 6:06:44 AM)

FR

More detail on the interview from the Jesuit magazine America:

http://www.americamagazine.org/pope-interview



fucktoyprincess -> RE: I like this Pope more and more (9/20/2013 8:14:06 AM)

I have nothing against this man personally - but if you read the reports Pope Francis clearly states, "the teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time....we need to find a new balance otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards." I stand by my original post. [sm=2cents.gif]



sloguy02246 -> RE: I like this Pope more and more (9/20/2013 8:44:43 AM)

As both a (non-practicing) Catholic and an ex-seminarian, I'll agree that his recent statements make for good sound bites. I will also agree that his comments correlate nicely with the decline in the numbers of his "flock."

I hope he will be more than just a bunch of talk, but I will not be truly impressed with anything he says until he actually takes some aggressive action with regard to child molestation by his priests.



GotSteel -> RE: I like this Pope more and more (9/20/2013 9:16:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Losing followers has a way of causing institutions to redefine their mission statement. [:D]


I think you are wrong here... This man is not changing his views just to stop declining membership. He believes with all his heart and soul that the duty of his church is to all sinners. And that the church should not alienate or exclude anyone for their sins.


She said THEIR not his, please don't strawman. Do you doubt that the horrible unpopularity of Pope Sidious caused the moderates to lean left in the last election?



kdsub -> RE: I like this Pope more and more (9/20/2013 9:28:41 AM)

I know you are addressing DomKen but please let me address your last post. I do understand your view and also do think there is some truth in your statements. But if you look back at his ministries before he became Pope I believe you would see a consistent stance on these issues. He may feel the pressure on the church to change or face the loss of membership but I do believe he is saying what is in his heart.

I do hope you can see the difference between forced change for survival of a way of life and a change in leader with a different message of tolerance and servitude to a merciful God.

Butch



kdsub -> RE: I like this Pope more and more (9/20/2013 9:32:52 AM)

No straw man with me... I am only talking of one man and one man only. It is my take on this one man's views as I see them. And as with us all just opinion that only time will validate.

Butch



Phydeaux -> RE: I like this Pope more and more (9/20/2013 11:13:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

As both a (non-practicing) Catholic and an ex-seminarian, I'll agree that his recent statements make for good sound bites. I will also agree that his comments correlate nicely with the decline in the numbers of his "flock."

I hope he will be more than just a bunch of talk, but I will not be truly impressed with anything he says until he actually takes some aggressive action with regard to child molestation by his priests.


Yeah, right. The catholic church is known for changing its position when its unpopular. The consistency of its message is phenomenal.

And everyone keeps quoting "declining membership" but membership is increasing, not decreasing. 1.5% 2011/2010.



this guy washed the feet of aids patients in buenos aires and took the bus to work.



dcnovice -> RE: I like this Pope more and more (9/20/2013 4:44:17 PM)

FR

Some interesting reactions:

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/20/conservatives-disturbed-by-popes-new-course/?hpt=hp_t1



GotSteel -> RE: I like this Pope more and more (9/20/2013 4:47:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
No straw man with me... I am only talking of one man and one man only. It is my take on this one man's views as I see them. And as with us all just opinion that only time will validate.

Butch

I know you're talking about "one man only", that's why it's a straw man. Here, let me refresh your memory:


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Losing followers has a way of causing institutions to redefine their mission statement. [:D]


I think you are wrong here... This man is not changing his views just to stop declining membership. He believes with all his heart and soul that the duty of his church is to all sinners. And that the church should not alienate or exclude anyone for their sins.

Not exactly an acceptance of homosexuality as another creation of God…but… At least he is showing a willingness to accept the idea that since true Godliness is impossible for us to achieve it is time to stop persecuting people for one particular sin when we are all sinners.

Butch


See the bait and switch? She's talking about the institution, your response acts like she's talking about the man. As such I repeat myself; she said THEIR not his, please don't strawman.



dcnovice -> RE: I like this Pope more and more (9/20/2013 4:52:31 PM)

quote:

See the bait and switch? She's talking about the institution, your response acts like she's talking about the man. As such I repeat myself; she said THEIR not his, please don't strawman.

In fairness to Butch, the man and the institution tend to blur in the case of the pope.

Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia and all that. [:)]



kdsub -> RE: I like this Pope more and more (9/20/2013 5:29:06 PM)

Thanks dcnovice but there is no blur when it comes to the Pope. My belief is that fucktoyprincess was talking about the words of this man as the representative of the Church and so was I...If he likes to call it a strawman then so let it be written and so let it be done!....[:D]

Anyway he has no right to decide what fucktoyprincess was thinking or saying... That is for her to say.

Butch



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