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ORIGINAL: eulero83

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

They ignored the obvious fact that robberies by computer are going to be listed under white collar crime.

by computer are not robberies are theft as you are not threating someone with the computer but taking away without their knowledge

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ORIGINAL: eulero83

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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

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ORIGINAL: eulero83

yes exactly, but like he accepts to challenge bigger and younger thugs because armed with a gun for the same reason a person that intends to support himself with illicit activities will challenge more difficoult targets if profitable, or will use violence in order to avoid complication. In this case the aviability of a tool designed to harm more efficiently like a gun changed the danger perception of the persons, it's not hypnosis but it's presence makes bamad accept a higher stakes gamble as, I wish him this never happens, but the first time he challenges the wrong big time criminal thinking he's just a common thug this will end badly, anyhow, like he said, you don't care how it works in other countries as when you have your gun to defend yourself your live is wonderfull whatever happens around, and from other posts you wrote I feel you also don't care about how other people can be safe even if in their country there is 1/10 of the guns there are in yours. By the way for me your problem are not guns or immigrants or soft judges, but that you live in a society that desn't offer any safety net, this brings that huge amount of drug in your streets (because there whouldn't be so much dealers if there where not a huge number of buyiers) and peoples in your prisons because once you fall you stop only at the bottom.

I don't see where he has ever stated that he is challenging anyone.

He's armed for the same reason a drug dealer is ????? Absurd to an extreme.

If you're in your own driveway or going to the store in your neighborhood and confronted by thugs who would rob you or hurt you for the fun of it. A gun gives him the option to fight back and not be a victim. It's as simple as that. It has nothing to do with all the psyco babble crap you made up.

What you don't seem to grasp is the overwhelming majority of guns are in safe responsible hands of peaceable citizens. It's a tiny fraction of guns causing problems. I'm inferring that you seem to think, should the law abiding people give up their guns or follow your prescription of restrictions, we will reduce the problem. The thing is we would need the bad guys to at along with it too. I'm not gullible enough to believe that would happen.

In the other thread he said three times he used his gun as intimidation in order to force someone to fly, I was talking about that.

I could buy a gun, I'd probably do it if I happen to own a jewelry or a tobacco store (tobacco store are the closest equivalent to liquor stores in your country), nothing in the laws of my country keeps me from doing it, but I would have no problems in registring it to the police or not selling it to individuals.

In any other case I don't feel I need a gun, no one I know has ever been victim of a robbery or hurt by people just for fun, even if I use to walk in my city alone during the night I've had to change night trains in other cities and spend time alone in a train station, never been challenged by anyone, maybe I could be one time in the future asked by a man with a knife for my walet and my mobile, do I have to spend 700€ to protect 300€ worth stuff? I'll give them the money for their fucking dose and go to the police to describe what happened, but I feel as something very unlikely.

I don't grasp your idea that population is divided in two distinct groups: good people and criminals and no one will ever change side so it's just a problem of identify the defective person and lock them to solve the problem, you know they show their true nature in the moment they broke a law, than there are tis so called peaceable citizens that will never broke a law because they are not done that way. For me the world doesn't work that way it's not all black and white and there is a lot of gray, so if someone wants a tool designed for the purpose to harm has to demostrate his intention to be responsible and be willingly subject to certein controls is one of this things.

You and others go claiming that many guns in the righteous hands will discourage crime, but if "being confronted by thugs who would rob you or hurt you for the fun of it in your own driveway or going to the store in your neighborhood" is a plausible scenario in your life they are doing a crappy crappy job, so switch to tanks, bazookas and flamethrower because you have the bravest criminals in the whole western world.

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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

original: eulero83

In the other thread he said three times he used his gun as intimidation in order to force someone to fly, I was talking about that.

I remember twice but I won't quibble about it. I don't remember if it was in his driveway or wherever but I do remember the part you left out which is he was first accosted by thugs in his crappy neighborhood where at the moment he has no options for moving away.

Lucky for me I have always lived in great neighborhoods where I likely will never need my weapon. When I travel for work though I always have it with me because sometimes I end up in some shady places. Lucky for me that I have the option to pack heat if I ever might need it.

Why are you so concerned anyway if you don't live on this side of the pond ?

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

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ORIGINAL: Nosathro

The agreement by the pro gun groups that gun control laws will not work because criminals will not obey the law is at best a weak. Laws were created not change people behavior but to set a social boundary. Murder, rape, robbery, assault are behaviors that happen yet are against the law. Laws provide that if and when a person does violate a law our system has sanctions for it. So my question to pro gun groups is that do they want to ban all laws, then there would be no crime.

The statement that "guns kill people" is correct, after all how does a bullet enter a body? Metamorphosis?

As to the statement that guns influencing people" yes the can, depending on the person, they can be seen as phallic symbols, ego defense, etc.

the statement that guns kill people is fatuous. There have been millions of guns, hundreds of millions of guns - and there is not a SINGLE instance of a gun getting up and shooting someone. Ever.

Do guns make it easier for people to kill people - absolutely.

I can't talk for all in the pro-gun lobby, but my opposition to gun control stems from the following reasons.

1. A well armed citizen prevents tyranny of the state.

If you look at the 20th century - stalin killed 40 million. Mao 20 million, khmer rouge 8 million, Nazi Germany 6 milliion. You had genocide in armenia, ruanda, darfur.

In all those areas - there was a power inbalance. If you take the average of deaths per year - it is over a million people killed per year. So yes, we are horrified that 12,000 people die in the US due to gun violence. But we view it as a necessary evil to stop tyranny by the state from killing a million people a year.

2. We have a constitutional right to own weapons. And the constitution has a process to change those rights. Its called amendment. And I am frankly insulted when you try to cheat by chipping away at gun rights by laws instead of taking the honest approach - amendment.

3. Target shooting is fun, and hunting (although I abhor it) can be useful in providing food and as a test of skill. When you seek to ban gun ownership you are saying that its ok to deprive us of things that we enjoy - and for damn near no cause.

4. There are many other reasons - tradition, for example. Historical reenactment. Understanding military history. Collections. But fundamentally, the attack on gun rights is an attack on my right to defend my home, my land, my life the way I want. It is as offensive to us and regulating what happens in a bedroom is to you.

5. Finally and probably least is the idea that it is another huge government overreach (soemthing we hate in the first place). Just another ineffective government excuse to regulate and subjugate the people. It will not stop crime.

Yes, Britain has strict gun laws that reduce deaths due to guns. But have you looked at their deaths due to bludgeoning? Deaths due to kniving?

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
I do not challenge anyone but do to firearms possession I do not have to hide or run from them. There is a huge difference between challenging someone and refusing to be victimized by them.
If they are threatening me all the grey or even good areas of their lives are of no importance. At that moment they are willing to hurt me to get what they want.
If we would just become socialist all are problems would go away?
Maybe we should apply to regain our status as a British colony.

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ORIGINAL: BitYakin

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ORIGINAL: Nosathro

The agreement by the pro gun groups that gun control laws will not work because criminals will not obey the law is at best a weak. Laws were created not change people behavior but to set a social boundary. Murder, rape, robbery, assault are behaviors that happen yet are against the law. Laws provide that if and when a person does violate a law our system has sanctions for it. So my question to pro gun groups is that do they want to ban all laws, then there would be no crime.

The statement that "guns kill people" is correct, after all how does a bullet enter a body? Metamorphosis?

As to the statement that guns influencing people" yes the can, depending on the person, they can be seen as phallic symbols, ego defense, etc.

and yet you ignore the FACT that the use of a gun in the commission of a crime is ALREADY illegal

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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Yes, Britain has strict gun laws that reduce deaths due to guns. But have you looked at their deaths due to bludgeoning? Deaths due to kniving?

Have you ? ....... the UK murder rate is way lower than that of the US.

And always has been

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1. No evidence of well armed citizen prevent tyranny or anything for that matter. Stalin was elected, Hitler was elected, and he only banned guns for Jews, everyone else could have them. We gave Mao the guns and fought the khmer rouge remember?

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

There are plenty of countries who are not socialist, who have the probelms you do.
There are plenty of countries that were not British colonies that have the problems you do.

Sarcasm detector still broken huh.
You seem to imply that becoming socialistic British would solve all are problems.

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

There are plenty of countries who are not socialist, who have the probelms you do.
There are plenty of countries that were not British colonies that have the problems you do.

Sarcasm detector still broken huh.
You seem to imply that becoming socialistic British would solve all are problems.

Fucking laughable, and thats contempt not sarcasm.

You may not have noticed but we have a right wing government and are about as socialist as you are.

What not laughable is the continuous cycle of mass killings in the US, something hardly encountered by any other civilised nation. Some of you take every opportunity to blame anything but the actual source of the problem.

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

There are plenty of countries who are not socialist, who have the probelms you do.
There are plenty of countries that were not British colonies that have the problems you do.

Sarcasm detector still broken huh.
You seem to imply that becoming socialistic British would solve all are problems.

Fucking laughable, and thats contempt not sarcasm.

You may not have noticed but we have a right wing government and are about as socialist as you are.

What not laughable is the continuous cycle of mass killings in the US, something hardly encountered by any other civilised nation. Some of you take every opportunity to blame anything but the actual source of the problem.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

What is laughable is that you think we should hop to and do as you say.

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

What is laughable is that you think we should hop to and do as you say.

Plenty of Americans seem to be saying the same thing..... Go figure.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

We have many cowards.
Go figure.