RE: Now tell me again.... (Full Version)

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graceadieu -> RE: Now tell me again.... (9/24/2013 11:54:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

maybe it's because english is not my native language but a drug dealer isn't someone you go to and give money in exchange of a dose of drug?

Unless they decide that they just want your money or your car and steal it.
By and large, these are not honest businesspersons.


Honest or no, they won't stay in business long if they rob all their customers. What's better for a salesman - to keep their regular customers happy and paying every single week and bringing their friends to pay, or to piss off their customers and get a bad rep? Hint: it's the former.




graceadieu -> RE: Now tell me again.... (9/24/2013 11:56:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I carry to keep my stuff


what stuff do you have that is worth killing for?

My stuff is insured, seems an easier way of doing things


Right - no wallet is worth killing or dying for. Those credit cards can be cancelled, that driver's license and $50 in cash can be replaced. Your life can't, your freedom from prison (since in most places you have a duty to retreat) can't.




graceadieu -> RE: Now tell me again.... (9/24/2013 12:03:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

I am really wondering just how many here have had any experience in the criminal justice system. Most drug dealers I have had contact with don't use drugs, especially the stuff they sale. Yes at the very low end drug users, will buy 4 bags, use three and the cut the fourth and sell it to buy more drugs.


While I doubt that many/most posters on here have ever known a drug dealer and are relying entirely on stereotypes, those of us who have probably mostly have known this person. The guy that does a drug and deals a little on the side to pay for it. But even that guy - I'd think especially that guy - who's a high school student or delivers pizza or whatever, is not gunning his customers down in a back alley.




eulero83 -> RE: Now tell me again.... (9/24/2013 1:00:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

maybe it's because english is not my native language but a drug dealer isn't someone you go to and give money in exchange of a dose of drug?

Unless they decide that they just want your money or your car and steal it.
By and large, these are not honest businesspersons.


Honest or no, they won't stay in business long if they rob all their customers. What's better for a salesman - to keep their regular customers happy and paying every single week and bringing their friends to pay, or to piss off their customers and get a bad rep? Hint: it's the former.


I think the answer was some how ironic just as my question was sarcastic, but probably hillwilliam had some bad experience buying dope as a turist, were the person pretending to be a drug dealer turned out to be a thief. It happened actually to some of my acquaintances that during a school trip in another city they had to trust a random northern african for some weed and he just took the money and ran, luckly a police patrol car was there and and they could have the money back, this is a serious problem just think how many students spend their parents money for some marjuana and it turns out to be oregon, when I was in a high school trip luckly my teacher studied in the city we were visiting so during the jurney she informed us where to find her trusted dealer and also that telling her name we would get a better price.
I'd also say that is not good for business in drug dealing having more police because the resident are complaining for violent crimes in their neighbourhood, but I'm a law abiding and not armed citizen so I don't understand both the crime and how "high noon" can educate on how to fight crime.




eulero83 -> RE: Now tell me again.... (9/24/2013 1:10:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu


quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I carry to keep my stuff


what stuff do you have that is worth killing for?

My stuff is insured, seems an easier way of doing things


Right - no wallet is worth killing or dying for. Those credit cards can be cancelled, that driver's license and $50 in cash can be replaced. Your life can't, your freedom from prison (since in most places you have a duty to retreat) can't.


I'll also add that if I'm not a law abiding gun stealer I have to be robbed at least eight times before a gun being a good investment, and if not living in a socially deprived area... ain't gonna happen.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Now tell me again.... (9/24/2013 6:21:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83



I think the answer was some how ironic just as my question was sarcastic, but probably hillwilliam had some bad experience buying dope as a turist,

Would it be a TOS violation to say you're full of shit?

Actually, I was a High school teacher and I got to get know a lot of the little scumbags. The cool thing is that one or 2 of them ended up becoming cops.

So much for your asinine little theory.




jlf1961 -> RE: Now tell me again.... (9/24/2013 6:59:31 PM)

To those who say that stuff can be insured, and all that other bs.

1) Law enforcement response time in my part of the county 25 to thirty minutes and could be as long as an hour.
2) Time it takes to grab my 1911 and jack a round in the chamber, 12 seconds.
3) Nothing is worth killing for? Okay how about you tell that to William Petit who's house was invaded, he was beaten and almost killed, his wife and daughters raped and murdered. I dare you to say that to his face and then get pissed when he beats the living shit out of you.
4) Nothing worth dieing for, now this is as about as stupid a concept as can be expressed by human with an IQ higher than your average rock. As a young man, I thought this country was worth dieing for, now it is my family. The thing is I dont plan on dieing, but anyone breaking into my home has a fucking good chance of dieing or at the very least having a few extra holes punched into center mass. By the way, since there is no law on what kind of ammo that a person can use to protect his home, my .45 is loaded with hydroshocks.

Now for the inevitable criminals have rights crap. Once a criminal chooses to break the law and indanger another individual, he lost his rights. If that individual is armed and decides to send the criminal to hell, well the criminal made his choice.

I have actually been sued for shooting an intruder. It was real interesting considering I filed a counter suit. I won, the intruder and his family lost, and the local paper blasted great big photos on the front page of these idiots.




kdsub -> RE: Now tell me again.... (9/24/2013 7:22:27 PM)

I have no sympathy for thieves but what is a life worth when weighed against things? For instance here in St. Louis an off duty police officer and his girlfriend were jogging in our city park. The officer noticed a single black male checking them out as they went by and became suspicious. Evidently he was jogging with his weapon and when he saw the same man with two other black youths step in front of them on the path he drew his weapon and held it out of view as they approached.

One of the youths had a gun and demanded their valuables. The police officer shot the man with the gun twice killing him instantly then proceeded to shoot both of the remaining youths wounding them.

To me he put the life of his girlfriend in danger unnecessarily. On top of that he traded the life of another for a few bucks and a credit card in his pocket… this is what guns do.

I am not crying over this boy… I hate thieves.. But wasn’t his life worth a little more?

I know I will get burned here for being soft and a bleeding heart but if that young man had been my son it would not hurt any less because he was a thief.


Butch




Phydeaux -> RE: Now tell me again.... (9/24/2013 7:57:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

To those who say that stuff can be insured, and all that other bs.

1) Law enforcement response time in my part of the county 25 to thirty minutes and could be as long as an hour.
2) Time it takes to grab my 1911 and jack a round in the chamber, 12 seconds.
3) Nothing is worth killing for? Okay how about you tell that to William Petit who's house was invaded, he was beaten and almost killed, his wife and daughters raped and murdered. I dare you to say that to his face and then get pissed when he beats the living shit out of you.
4) Nothing worth dieing for, now this is as about as stupid a concept as can be expressed by human with an IQ higher than your average rock. As a young man, I thought this country was worth dieing for, now it is my family. The thing is I dont plan on dieing, but anyone breaking into my home has a fucking good chance of dieing or at the very least having a few extra holes punched into center mass. By the way, since there is no law on what kind of ammo that a person can use to protect his home, my .45 is loaded with hydroshocks.

Now for the inevitable criminals have rights crap. Once a criminal chooses to break the law and indanger another individual, he lost his rights. If that individual is armed and decides to send the criminal to hell, well the criminal made his choice.

I have actually been sued for shooting an intruder. It was real interesting considering I filed a counter suit. I won, the intruder and his family lost, and the local paper blasted great big photos on the front page of these idiots.


Congratulations. If only you could go after the lawyer for damages.




Phydeaux -> RE: Now tell me again.... (9/24/2013 8:01:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I have no sympathy for thieves but what is a life worth when weighed against things? For instance here in St. Louis an off duty police officer and his girlfriend were jogging in our city park. The officer noticed a single black male checking them out as they went by and became suspicious. Evidently he was jogging with his weapon and when he saw the same man with two other black youths step in front of them on the path he drew his weapon and held it out of view as they approached.

One of the youths had a gun and demanded their valuables. The police officer shot the man with the gun twice killing him instantly then proceeded to shoot both of the remaining youths wounding them.

To me he put the life of his girlfriend in danger unnecessarily. On top of that he traded the life of another for a few bucks and a credit card in his pocket… this is what guns do.

I am not crying over this boy… I hate thieves.. But wasn’t his life worth a little more?

I know I will get burned here for being soft and a bleeding heart but if that young man had been my son it would not hurt any less because he was a thief.


Butch


If it hurt because he was dead you should have bestirred yourself to move him from that path while he was a child. I would almost say its a truism that no child becomes a mugger without the complicity of the parents.

More to the point. It isn't only a question of what is the thief's life worth. What are the lives of the people he might have hurt by his theft or assault.
What is the value of the example he shows others that thievery is acceptable.

Three muggers picking on one man? He showed admirable restraint in killing only one. He had adequate reason to fear for his life since they were willing to use the gun in the commission of a felony.




kdsub -> RE: Now tell me again.... (9/24/2013 8:09:10 PM)

The other two were unarmed and running away. Seems to me he could have given them the wallet and then if he had to shoot. But like I said I have no sympathy for them. The point I guess I am trying to make is the guns of both were the reason one was dead and two wounded... this is what having guns does. This encounter could have just as easily ended up with both the girl and off duty officer dead or an innocent bystander from the gun fight in a public park.

Butch




Phydeaux -> RE: Now tell me again.... (9/24/2013 8:44:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

The other two were unarmed and running away. Seems to me he could have given them the wallet and then if he had to shoot. But like I said I have no sympathy for them. The point I guess I am trying to make is the guns of both were the reason one was dead and two wounded... this is what having guns does. This encounter could have just as easily ended up with both the girl and off duty officer dead or an innocent bystander from the gun fight in a public park.

Butch


kd
please do not take this as a personal attack.
But it could also have ended that these thugs went on to kill other people.
These kinds of hypotheticals can never be resolved.

What we know is these three made bad choices. I hope the unarmed two will figure getting shot isn't worth it.

I will note a few things

a). I am hugely opposed that a police officer should be treated any different in this instance than a regular citizen.
b). I don't know the circumstance of the attack to which you allude. Did they threaten him - know where his girl friend lived?

I have no sympathy for the thugs.
My only opposition to stand your ground kinds of laws is when they create circumstances that are ungovernable.

Ie., frequent occurences where model citizens are killed in "fear of one's life"




BamaD -> RE: Now tell me again.... (9/24/2013 11:51:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I have no sympathy for thieves but what is a life worth when weighed against things? For instance here in St. Louis an off duty police officer and his girlfriend were jogging in our city park. The officer noticed a single black male checking them out as they went by and became suspicious. Evidently he was jogging with his weapon and when he saw the same man with two other black youths step in front of them on the path he drew his weapon and held it out of view as they approached.

One of the youths had a gun and demanded their valuables. The police officer shot the man with the gun twice killing him instantly then proceeded to shoot both of the remaining youths wounding them.

To me he put the life of his girlfriend in danger unnecessarily. On top of that he traded the life of another for a few bucks and a credit card in his pocket… this is what guns do.

I am not crying over this boy… I hate thieves.. But wasn’t his life worth a little more?

I know I will get burned here for being soft and a bleeding heart but if that young man had been my son it would not hurt any less because he was a thief.


Butch

No the thug gave up his life by threatening them with harm. He died not because the cop valued his credit card above the thugs life, but because he valued his girlfriend above the thugs life.
How can you say they would not have killed them if thy had co-operated particularly if they saw he was a cop, cause muggers just love cops.




BamaD -> RE: Now tell me again.... (9/24/2013 11:54:52 PM)

I don't know the circumstance of the attack to which you allude. Did they threaten him - know where his girl friend lived?


Once they got her purse they would have known where she lived.




tweakabelle -> RE: Now tell me again.... (9/25/2013 12:06:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


No the thug gave up his life by threatening them with harm. He died not because the cop valued his credit card above the thugs life, but because he valued his girlfriend above the thugs life.


No.

The mugger died because the cop shot him dead. Pure and simple.

Did he die as a consequence of his own poor decision-making? Definitely.

Was the mugger's choice a defensible one? Definitely not.

Should he have died because he chose to carry out a horrible but minor crime? Definitely not.

Outcomes such as this are almost inevitable when two gun toting macho males end up in a confrontation - irrespective of the actual circumstances. People have been shot over confrontations arising out of circumstances as trivial as parking disputes .

Guns and aggressive macho males are a very dangerous combination. Period.




eulero83 -> RE: Now tell me again.... (9/25/2013 1:14:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83



I think the answer was some how ironic just as my question was sarcastic, but probably hillwilliam had some bad experience buying dope as a turist,

Would it be a TOS violation to say you're full of shit?

Actually, I was a High school teacher and I got to get know a lot of the little scumbags. The cool thing is that one or 2 of them ended up becoming cops.

So much for your asinine little theory.


probably it is but I'm not for sure reporting it, I was joking just cool down.




DaddySatyr -> RE: Now tell me again.... (9/25/2013 5:11:40 AM)

In recent memory:

34 killed and/or wounded Columbine.
82 killed and/or wounded Aurora, Co.
30 killed and/or wounded Sandy Hook Elementary.
26 killed and/or wounded Washington Naval Yard.
172 total killed or wounded by 4 madmen.


285 killed at Boston Marathon ... without using a gun

2,985 killed in the 9/11/01 attacks ... without using a gun.







thishereboi -> RE: Now tell me again.... (9/25/2013 5:12:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83



I think the answer was some how ironic just as my question was sarcastic, but probably hillwilliam had some bad experience buying dope as a turist,

Would it be a TOS violation to say you're full of shit?

Actually, I was a High school teacher and I got to get know a lot of the little scumbags. The cool thing is that one or 2 of them ended up becoming cops.

So much for your asinine little theory.



I don't know if it's against TOS but it would be honest. I am not sure why it's so hard to believe that people on these forums might have met up with drug dealers. Do they think we just got here from church?




thishereboi -> RE: Now tell me again.... (9/25/2013 5:14:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu


quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I carry to keep my stuff


what stuff do you have that is worth killing for?

My stuff is insured, seems an easier way of doing things


Right - no wallet is worth killing or dying for. Those credit cards can be cancelled, that driver's license and $50 in cash can be replaced. Your life can't, your freedom from prison (since in most places you have a duty to retreat) can't.



He never said a wallet was worth killing or dying for. Perhaps you should go back and reread the whole quote before you jump on that particular bandwagon.




jlf1961 -> RE: Now tell me again.... (9/25/2013 5:17:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

In recent memory:

34 killed and/or wounded Columbine.
82 killed and/or wounded Aurora, Co.
30 killed and/or wounded Sandy Hook Elementary.
26 killed and/or wounded Washington Naval Yard.
172 total killed or wounded by 4 madmen.


285 killed at Boston Marathon ... without using a gun

2,985 killed in the 9/11/01 attacks ... without using a gun.







You forgot Timothy McVeigh didnt use a gun.

I have been trying to figure out how to target asteroids at people. Problem I am having is finding ones of just the right size so that after travelling through the atmosphere there is a softball sized projectile left.




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