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Inexorable - 7/1/2006 8:21:42 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		Inexorable-grim: not to be placated or appeased or moved by entreaty; adamant: impervious to pleas, persuasion, requests, reason;

I've know a few consensual slaves who had this form of expression at the heart of thier submission. They didn't desire scc,or safewords etc..........they wanted a Top with confidence and competence. They tended to fly under the radar-since they were tired of being dismissed as doormats,or enablers of abuse.

I admit that I enjoyed the freedom they offered to one they had come to trust-and it made me smile to hear one say- "It's not bondage until I ask to be released, and you say no."

How many of you enjoy a more inexorable dynamic with your partners?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 8:27:47 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr
How many of you enjoy a more inexorable dynamic with your partners?


As a slave, I want the owners authority to always be ultimate and final.

Buthat still leaves a lot of leeway- delegation, management, discussion, cooperation and more.

Having the final say isn't the same as eliminating all other options.  I say have both.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 8:35:31 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		But I was not reffering to eliminating all options.

Only electives.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 8:38:48 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

I admit that I enjoyed the freedom they offered to one they had come to trust-and it made me smile to hear one say- "It's not bondage until I ask to be released, and you say no"


I love that quote and agree whole heartedly.
I do not want a safe word with a Master because the Master i eventually submit to will know and understand me so well they will instinctively know when i have had as much as i can take.
I don't want to make choices - my only choice is to submit or not. After that i defer to the wishes of my Master. 

< Message edited by missturbation -- 7/1/2006 8:42:05 AM >

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 8:42:22 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

I admit that I enjoyed the freedom they offered to one they had come to trust-and it made me smile to hear one say- "It's not bondage until I ask to be released, and you say no"


I love that quote and agree whole heartedly.
I do not want a safe word with a Master because the Master i eventually submit to will know and understand me so well they will instinctively know when i have had as much as i can take.
So in answer i would say Yes !!


I've explored this sort of dynamic in depth-and I found a wonderful intimacy in the trust I was given.....at the same time,it made me acutely aware of my responsibility-it wasn't just a sex game any more.

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 8:47:07 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
I do not want a safe word with a Master because the Master i eventually submit to will know and understand me so well they will instinctively know when i have had as much as i can take.
I don't want to make choices - my only choice is to submit or not. After that i defer to the wishes of my Master. 

Safe words aren't symbols of trust however, they aren't symbols of commitment or intimacy or anything.  They are communication tools.  I could say "Stop!" in a scene because I've suddenly gotten a horrible cramp in my leg, or a migraine or a big emotional upheaval. 

My partner, no matter how wonderful he or she may be, or how trusting I am, cannot be expected to anticipate each of those incidents or know how I'm doing within them.  It's up to me to communicate my state of being to them.

Whether you communicate with a safe word or just plain old words is up to you.  But responsible scening has nothing to do with some metaphysical level of psychic trust and precognition.  It has to do with communicating and working together.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 8:53:16 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
I do not want a safe word with a Master because the Master i eventually submit to will know and understand me so well they will instinctively know when i have had as much as i can take.
I don't want to make choices - my only choice is to submit or not. After that i defer to the wishes of my Master. 

Safe words aren't symbols of trust however, they aren't symbols of commitment or intimacy or anything.  They are communication tools.  I could say "Stop!" in a scene because I've suddenly gotten a horrible cramp in my leg, or a migraine or a big emotional upheaval. 

My partner, no matter how wonderful he or she may be, or how trusting I am, cannot be expected to anticipate each of those incidents or know how I'm doing within them.  It's up to me to communicate my state of being to them.

Whether you communicate with a safe word or just plain old words is up to you.  But responsible scening has nothing to do with some metaphysical level of psychic trust and precognition.  It has to do with communicating and working together.


I regret having even mentioned ssc and safewords now-this topic is about more than a romp in the sack.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 8:56:13 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		While there's a small portion of me that admires those who are capable of viewing things this way - there's a much larger portion that simply experiences nausea upon contemplating such.
 
There was a point in my life (a long time ago, relatively speaking) that I had it in me to view things in such a manner.  It was, at it's core, a point where I felt that as long as he was making all the choices then life was good.  Due to various cirucmstances, my own poor choices, and the fact that humanity isn't "good" at it's core - such notions were long since beatten and abused out of me.  My perspective - and along with it my desires and needs - changed.
 
There are still a few areas of my life where I find this appealing on various levels.  Those areas are simply much less all encompassing now - there are rather distinct boundries in place that I no longer allow to be crossed, for the sake of self preservation.  I simply hope that those who Do enjoy that sort of ...... eh.... all encompassing unquestioning (and yes, to my personal perception UnThinking) sort of dynamic - never run across someone who is less than honest, honorable, and trustworthy.  Sometimes you find out - even when they know instinctively that you've had all you can take, they may not particularly Care that such a point has been reached.

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 8:59:18 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

I admit that I enjoyed the freedom they offered to one they had come to trust-and it made me smile to hear one say- "It's not bondage until I ask to be released, and you say no"


I love that quote and agree whole heartedly.
I do not want a safe word with a Master because the Master i eventually submit to will know and understand me so well they will instinctively know when i have had as much as i can take.
So in answer i would say Yes !!


I've explored this sort of dynamic in depth-and I found a wonderful intimacy in the trust I was given.....at the same time,it made me acutely aware of my responsibility-it wasn't just a sex game any more.


It is never about just being a sex game to me anyway.
For me it is about giving myself mind, body and soul completely.
To trust someone with my life.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 9:01:45 AM   
zenofeller


Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
Status: offline 		i think not, albatross. if safe words were a communication tool, the master would be at liberty to ignore them. since they are used with an expectation they are in fact a control tool.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 9:03:02 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

I admit that I enjoyed the freedom they offered to one they had come to trust-and it made me smile to hear one say- "It's not bondage until I ask to be released, and you say no"


I love that quote and agree whole heartedly.
I do not want a safe word with a Master because the Master i eventually submit to will know and understand me so well they will instinctively know when i have had as much as i can take.
So in answer i would say Yes !!


I've explored this sort of dynamic in depth-and I found a wonderful intimacy in the trust I was given.....at the same time,it made me acutely aware of my responsibility-it wasn't just a sex game any more.


It is never about just being a sex game to me anyway.
For me it is about giving myself mind, body and soul completely.
To trust someone with my life.


One has to make a clear choice in this.
One can give themselves to a happy symbiosis,or a devourer.

Choose carefully.

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 9:03:22 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
I do not want a safe word with a Master because the Master i eventually submit to will know and understand me so well they will instinctively know when i have had as much as i can take.
I don't want to make choices - my only choice is to submit or not. After that i defer to the wishes of my Master. 

Safe words aren't symbols of trust however, they aren't symbols of commitment or intimacy or anything.  They are communication tools.  I could say "Stop!" in a scene because I've suddenly gotten a horrible cramp in my leg, or a migraine or a big emotional upheaval. 

My partner, no matter how wonderful he or she may be, or how trusting I am, cannot be expected to anticipate each of those incidents or know how I'm doing within them.  It's up to me to communicate my state of being to them.

Whether you communicate with a safe word or just plain old words is up to you.  But responsible scening has nothing to do with some metaphysical level of psychic trust and precognition.  It has to do with communicating and working together.


Of course if i had cramp i would shout ouch i have cramp.
I always respect your opinions on these forums and often look to yours in particular as i always find them in general unbias and to make sense.
However what use or lack of use of a safe word means to you doesnt necessarily fit my meaning.
Communication and working together of course are important but i would hope that i could communicate with a Master well enough in the beginning for him to be able to judge my state of mind almost intuitively.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 9:05:59 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
i think not, albatross. if safe words were a communication tool, the master would be at liberty to ignore them. since they are used with an expectation they are in fact a control tool.

They don't HAVE to be used with that expectation.

I don't use safe words, but I do use communication.  I've had scenes with partners where they needed to pause, shift positions, slow down, get water.

There's no need to totally break down a scene in most cases- just communicate and move forward. 

I once stupidly didn't eat very much one day before a party and played with a couple.  I started to feel a bit woozy and asked for water.  They said no, and kept playing with me.  I buckled a few moments later and the scene pretty much had to stop.  If they had listened and gotten me water, I could have kept going and we all could have kept enjoying the scene together.  I wasn't attempting to control- I was attempting to communicate.

Communication is not the same as control.  A master making the right choice so that everyone is ok isn't the same as a master who is being controlled by the slave.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to zenofeller)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 9:06:16 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
I do not want a safe word with a Master because the Master i eventually submit to will know and understand me so well they will instinctively know when i have had as much as i can take.
I don't want to make choices - my only choice is to submit or not. After that i defer to the wishes of my Master. 

Safe words aren't symbols of trust however, they aren't symbols of commitment or intimacy or anything.  They are communication tools.  I could say "Stop!" in a scene because I've suddenly gotten a horrible cramp in my leg, or a migraine or a big emotional upheaval. 

My partner, no matter how wonderful he or she may be, or how trusting I am, cannot be expected to anticipate each of those incidents or know how I'm doing within them.  It's up to me to communicate my state of being to them.

Whether you communicate with a safe word or just plain old words is up to you.  But responsible scening has nothing to do with some metaphysical level of psychic trust and precognition.  It has to do with communicating and working together.


Of course if i had cramp i would shout ouch i have cramp.
I always respect your opinions on these forums and often look to yours in particular as i always find them in general unbias and to make sense.
However what use or lack of use of a safe word means to you doesnt necessarily fit my meaning.
Communication and working together of course are important but i would hope that i could communicate with a Master well enough in the beginning for him to be able to judge my state of mind almost intuitively.


Please never come to the conclusion that a Top is a mind reader-empathy can only go so far.

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 9:08:26 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

I admit that I enjoyed the freedom they offered to one they had come to trust-and it made me smile to hear one say- "It's not bondage until I ask to be released, and you say no"


I love that quote and agree whole heartedly.
I do not want a safe word with a Master because the Master i eventually submit to will know and understand me so well they will instinctively know when i have had as much as i can take.
So in answer i would say Yes !!


I've explored this sort of dynamic in depth-and I found a wonderful intimacy in the trust I was given.....at the same time,it made me acutely aware of my responsibility-it wasn't just a sex game any more.


It is never about just being a sex game to me anyway.
For me it is about giving myself mind, body and soul completely.
To trust someone with my life.


One has to make a clear choice in this.
One can give themselves to a happy symbiosis,or a devourer.

Choose carefully.


Im a little unsure of your choice of word here.
Symbiosis-A close, prolonged association between two or more different organisms of different species that may, but does not necessarily, benefit each member.

I presume by devourer you mean someone who would take all.
Apologies but i cant answer something i dont really understand. 

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 9:08:36 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
Communication and working together of course are important but i would hope that i could communicate with a Master well enough in the beginning for him to be able to judge my state of mind almost intuitively.

Almost is not completely.  And life simply throws curves at you.  It's not about trust, it's just about understanding what happens in scenes- things will happen that simply can't be foreseen and are usually easily dealt with by a bit of communication.

It's not a sign that you don't trust your master because you know you can and will tell him if something's wrong in a scene.  IMO it's actually a sign that you DO trust them that you feel secure enough to communicate what's going on.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 9:10:41 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		A symbiosis is a beneficial sharing that benfits both partners.

A devourer is one who uses until a resource is exhausted.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 9:10:59 AM   
LokisBrat


Posts: 431
Joined: 12/5/2005
From: Mayberry, Illinois
Status: offline 		My opinion in this is that safe words relinquish control to the Sub/Slave.  I understand having them with partners that are new and a relationship is not fully developed.  The whole idea behind not having safe words is the Sub/Slave submits their trust to the Master/Owner/partner.  In my particular situation "safe words" are really not needed, but I have been with brat for 9 years.  I can distinguish between mild discomfort and reaching hard limits.

Example:  About a month ago I had the brat in a seriously uncomfortable position and realized I needed to turned her loose.  After discussing this with her, she said "but I never gave you the safe word".  As her Husband/Master I did not need to hear the "safe word" to realize the scene was not beneficial to either of us and needed to be stopped. 

We have the advantage of truly knowing and understanding each other versus a newly found relationship.  We also understand what each other can emotionally/physically tolerate before becomong detrimental to our relationship.

LOKI


_____________________________

"My pleasure, your pain. Doesn't matter, its all the same"

-Loki

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 9:15:24 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		I do not think a Master is a mind reader and i of course know that at times it will go wrong. But ......that is my choice of control to give.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 9:18:15 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LokisBrat

My opinion in this is that safe words relinquish control to the Sub/Slave.  I understand having them with partners that are new and a relationship is not fully developed.  The whole idea behind not having safe words is the Sub/Slave submits their trust to the Master/Owner/partner.  In my particular situation "safe words" are really not needed, but I have been with brat for 9 years.  I can distinguish between mild discomfort and reaching hard limits.

Example:  About a month ago I had the brat in a seriously uncomfortable position and realized I needed to turned her loose.  After discussing this with her, she said "but I never gave you the safe word".  As her Husband/Master I did not need to hear the "safe word" to realize the scene was not beneficial to either of us and needed to be stopped. 

We have the advantage of truly knowing and understanding each other versus a newly found relationship.  We also understand what each other can emotionally/physically tolerate before becomong detrimental to our relationship.

LOKI



Yes,this is about excercising good stewardship of property and connection. Strrictly common sense-but the Top maintains the preogative of controlling elective choices otherwise ceeded to submissives.

(in reply to LokisBrat)
Profile   Post #: 20
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