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RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 3:45:48 PM

Vancouver_cinful

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr
How many of you enjoy a more inexorable dynamic with your partners?

I have a love/hate relationship with this type of submission. In the scenes where it was explored I was angered and frustrated beyond what I thought was fine - at the time.

Later, when the scene ended, I was a mush puddle of subbie-jello, and truly changed in some part of my psyche. These have been the most profound moments of submission for me. Often the scene would replay itself in my head for days almost obsessively, and it took a lot of mental energy to process it, understand what it meant, and I always grew from it.

But, yes, they scare me too. I wouldn't eagerly volunteer for them, as much as they entice me.

In an ongoing relationship I can see a place for this...in small degrees.

Interesting thread, caretakr. Love the new pic, too.

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Post #: 41

RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 3:49:23 PM

Caretakr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

How many of you enjoy a more inexorable dynamic with your partners?

To a degree. He is not impervious to my pleas. He will listen to them (if appropriate) and decide from there. He may tell me, however, to be quiet and stop pleading, at which point I will.

SSC and safewords are not part of our dynamic. He knows me. He knows how far to push. He knows when to pull back or adjust. Our opinions often differ on that, but he is in charge and his word is final and obeyed. Had he listened to me all this time, we would not have what we do now, and I would not be who I am now.

Others have often made a point about ssc and safewords being more for intial phases,or casual play. To my knowledge, it was set up as a way to deal with a huge influx of new people coming in-who had never worked up through the ranks under decent mentors.

I don't hold these allagedly universal safety proceedures as sacrosanct- my own experiences over the years have shown me how fallible they can be. I think what is important, is that the guiding hand be realistic enough to work in the best interests of both partners-even if the junior may not always think so.

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Post #: 42

RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 3:57:09 PM

Caretakr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr
How many of you enjoy a more inexorable dynamic with your partners?

I have a love/hate relationship with this type of submission. In the scenes where it was explored I was angered and frustrated beyond what I thought was fine - at the time.

Later, when the scene ended, I was a mush puddle of subbie-jello, and truly changed in some part of my psyche. These have been the most profound moments of submission for me. Often the scene would replay itself in my head for days almost obsessively, and it took a lot of mental energy to process it, understand what it meant, and I always grew from it.

But, yes, they scare me too. I wouldn't eagerly volunteer for them, as much as they entice me.

In an ongoing relationship I can see a place for this...in small degrees.

Interesting thread, caretakr. Love the new pic, too.

Thank you cin,I figured I''d scare off the fabio chasers with my menacing mug.

It's often the case that not having an immedate out leaves deep imprinting it it's wake. I first started exploring things like this when past girls came away from scenes, feeling that they were somehow incomplete. These were back in the more casual learning days,around 8 years ago. Gradually, the D/s component began to click with me, and we would push things a bit farther-to see how it would go.

Eventually, I got to the point where I "grokked' the whole TPE thing, and I was hooked. It's a bit difficult to lose the vanilla conditoning to go there, but the aptitude was not lacking.

Live and learn

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Post #: 43

RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 4:04:42 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr
Others have often made a point about ssc and safewords being more for intial phases,or casual play. To my knowledge, it was set up as a way to deal with a huge influx of new people coming in-who had never worked up through the ranks under decent mentors.

I don't hold these allagedly universal safety proceedures as sacrosanct- my own experiences over the years have shown me how fallible they can be. I think what is important, is that the guiding hand be realistic enough to work in the best interests of both partners-even if the junior may not always think so.

We never used SSC, safewords, etc. Even in the beginning - I either trusted him or I didn't. He would not allow me to visit and serve him until we were both convinced that I did.

I understand there are many out there who are misguided, mislead, or have malintentions. It is my belief that such procedures are in existence for those situations. I may have been a fool two years ago when I begged to serve him, without such procedures in place, but based on the kinds of conversations we were having, I had no reason to doubt him.

I empathize with BeingChewsie, however, after hearing time after time that what we live is a fantasy and does not exist, one just shrugs and stops posting about it. I contend that what is fantasy to someone is only a fantasy because they can not comprehend it at any other level.

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Post #: 44

RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 4:18:27 PM

Caretakr

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Smiles,once you have lived it-it's no fantasy.

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RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 4:56:26 PM

Vancouver_cinful

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr
Thank you cin,I figured I''d scare off the fabio chasers with my menacing mug.

But did you take into account all of us who have shaved head fetishes?

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Post #: 46

RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 5:02:01 PM

Vancouver_cinful

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr
It's often the case that not having an immedate out leaves deep imprinting it it's wake. I first started exploring things like this when past girls came away from scenes, feeling that they were somehow incomplete.

For me, the dissonance came from trying to reconcile everything I'd read about SSC, and that undeniable melt I would get when someone pushed me past my struggling, and half-hearted no's.

The more experience I have, the better I am able to trust my own instincts about the difference between abuse and D/s. It's rather individual, after all...and very subjective.

I can't say I've shed the conditioning yet, and I'm not sure I want to, 100%. But, I do know that unless a dom can push me occasionally past resistance I'll never feel that my submission has been truly given.

Not an easy thing to be reconciled to.

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RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 5:02:09 PM

sublizzie

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You mean it's not just me??

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RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 5:05:03 PM

Vancouver_cinful

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Are you kidding? Get in line!

(Shaved Head groupies...Unite! Arm yourselves with those razors...)

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RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 5:18:54 PM

Caretakr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr
It's often the case that not having an immedate out leaves deep imprinting it it's wake. I first started exploring things like this when past girls came away from scenes, feeling that they were somehow incomplete.

For me, the dissonance came from trying to reconcile everything I'd read about SSC, and that undeniable melt I would get when someone pushed me past my struggling, and half-hearted no's.

The more experience I have, the better I am able to trust my own instincts about the difference between abuse and D/s. It's rather individual, after all...and very subjective.

I can't say I've shed the conditioning yet, and I'm not sure I want to, 100%. But, I do know that unless a dom can push me occasionally past resistance I'll never feel that my submission has been truly given.

Not an easy thing to be reconciled to.

Slaves aren't made in days, weeks, or even years..And exactly what we find as a submissive, or anything else conveniently labeled, can be confusing at best.

The common thread in arriving, is that one finds a Top patient and knowlegable enough to take one past the reactance phases.. And they are many, and none are ever easy to overcome. The "melt" you described has basically been best related to me as an inner barrier breaking. These tend to be mental and emotional defenses, built up subconsciously.

And as long as one is *allowed* safewords and outs, these will always trigger that defensive response. Failing that,the top has the perogative of pushing up to-and past that resistance. In time, it is realized that these defenses were never really needed- they were simply prisoning overlays on a basic core.

< Message edited by Caretakr -- 7/1/2006 5:20:24 PM >

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RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 5:35:25 PM

Vancouver_cinful

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

The "melt" you described has basically been best related to me as an inner barrier breaking. These tend to be mental and emotional defenses, built up subconsciously.

I know this was definitely the case with me. I wasn't the most sexually trusting of souls when I began this. Mental defenses built up over time are hard to overcome. There is a great deal of emotional strength needed to cope with the sensations it causes when they come down.

I'm forever grateful, however, that this was accomplished.

quote:

In time, it is realized that these defenses were never really needed- they were simply prisoning overlays on a basic core.

Absolutely. In hindsight the barriers seem silly to me now. I suppose they served a purpose once...but I'm hard-pressed to understand how, now.

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RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 5:50:35 PM

catize

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quote:

And as long as one is *allowed* safewords and outs, these will always trigger that defensive response.

That assumes that the submissive does not try to push her own limits. I am allowed a safe word but there are many times I do not use it even though I could. When in those situations, I ask myself if real harm is being done; the answer is usually 'no' and so I am silent. Master has asked me why I did not use the safe word and I told him that I knew I could get past that particular barrier. I don't feel pushed so much as I feel we have leapt over it together.

< Message edited by catize -- 7/1/2006 5:51:35 PM >

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RE: Inexorable - 7/1/2006 5:54:59 PM

Caretakr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

And as long as one is *allowed* safewords and outs, these will always trigger that defensive response.

That assumes that the submissive does not try to push her own limits. I am allowed a safe word but there are many times I do not use it even though I could. When in those situations, I ask myself if real harm is being done; the answer is usually 'no' and so I am silent. Master has asked me why I did not use the safe word and I told him that I knew I could get past that particular barrier. I don't feel pushed so much as I feel we have leapt over it together.

excellent point.

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