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RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/28/2013 10:55:30 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Glad you are having fun.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to NoBimbosAllowed)
Profile   Post #: 561
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/28/2013 11:13:26 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: NoBimbosAllowed

also, my delightful Manboob Ratnose, you must understand that in the USA, once the guns are imported legally OR illegally, they are there. on the street, sometimes sold at schoolyard parking lots.

even if uncared for, those guns are lethal for ten years or so. In anyone's hands. wasting time on the gun laws which CANNOT REMOVE THE GUNS CURRENTLY OUT THERE will not save lives.

Changing the culture that affects the insticts of people who might own the guns, WILL.

of course, I already said the sheer numbers of guns out there is a problem for gun control... but if the govt offers cash for guns (& then they are destroyed), that would reduce the numbers & save some lives.. and making people that didn't turn their gun in pay for the true cost of any damage that was caused by their gun.. (injury, death, cost of crime using the gun, hospital costs, loss of income, etc).. in some places now if people ski out of bounds & need to be rescued, they can be sent a bill for the cost of their rescue.. perhaps gun owners need to pay in that same way also, should their gun cause harm..

They can be sued now if they misuse their gun.
Or do you mean fining someone because their gun is stolen and used improperly.

yup, including if someone steals it and hurts someone or commits a crime with it, etc.. or if someone in their family is accidentally hurt or killed (like recently a guy wakes up & shoots what he thinks is an intruder.. who turns out to be his wife coming home),.. all cases, regardless.. that's what I mean..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/28/2013 11:38:04 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		So you think it is right and fair that after a person is victimized by being robbed they should be victimized again because the thief isn't a good person. Is that correct?
Lets fine everyone for being victimized, or don't you think gun owners are due the basic human rights given to all other crime victims?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 563
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/28/2013 11:40:51 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Make the victim the criminal, that would put us on the level with Dubai where they arrested a woman for being raped.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/28/2013 11:42:47 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 564
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/29/2013 9:30:07 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Make the victim the criminal, that would put us on the level with Dubai where they arrested a woman for being raped.



Isn't the criminal the victim when confronted with a gun?

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 565
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/29/2013 9:50:14 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Isn't the criminal the victim when confronted with a gun?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To read some of these posts you would think so.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 566
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/29/2013 12:35:43 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

So you think it is right and fair that after a person is victimized by being robbed they should be victimized again because the thief isn't a good person. Is that correct?
Lets fine everyone for being victimized, or don't you think gun owners are due the basic human rights given to all other crime victims?

to me a handgun is like a bomb waiting to go off.. if you want to keep one around where someone can steal it, or your kid can play cops n robbers with it, then yes.. your crime would be not having it hidden away where it could not be found and locked up securely (with a fingerprint lock on it).. that is only my personal opinion of what would be needed to get thru to all those MEATBALLS out there.. of course I don't ever expect that laws would be instituted to be anywhere near that strict, especially given the political gridlock.. I expect there wont be any major changes in gun laws for 20 or 30 years, if at all.. so I don't expect any end to mass shootings, accidental shootings, or shooting your wife/hubby and saying "ooppps, thought he/she was an intruder.. my bad".. kids taking daddy's gun(s) to school, shooting their brother/sister in the foot or elsewhere, etc, etc.. again, jmo..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 567
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/29/2013 12:42:07 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

to me a handgun is like a bomb waiting to go off..


Mine haven't. Stupid bombs, 40 years and not one can even go off. Who makes these worthless things?

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 568
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/29/2013 12:42:07 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		And there is the minor problem of it being unconstitutional.
As if someone stole your neighbors car and used it in a bank robbery and you make the original owner an accomplice .
You cannot hold person A responsible for the actions of person B outside of some tyrannical political system. 

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 569
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/29/2013 12:48:09 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		 if you want to keep one around where someone can steal it, or your kid can play cops n robbers with it, then yes.. your crime would be not having it hidden away where it could not be found and locked up securely (with a fingerprint lock on it)..

A  I have taught a bunch of kids gun safety and not one of them would have ever "played cops and robbers" with them that happens with kids around people like you that see to it kids no nothing about guns except they are some kind of adult mystery that needs to be investigated.

B  A person can have a gun as long as they make damn sure they can't get it if they need it.

C get real 

D guns are no more time bombs than cars matches or fertilizer.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/29/2013 12:49:01 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 570
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/29/2013 12:51:33 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		In my personal experience doctors are far more  dangerous than guns.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 571
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/29/2013 12:52:32 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

And there is the minor problem of it being unconstitutional.
As if someone stole your neighbors car and used it in a bank robbery and you make the original owner an accomplice .
You cannot hold person A responsible for the actions of person B outside of some tyrannical political system. 

as I said, that was my personal opinion (the Patriot Act is also unconstitutional yet people drink the Kool-Aid and defend it).. I seriously doubt this country will change & I don't want to live in a country with this kind of gun culture and at some point be touched by it..

eta- lots of gun owners teach kids about guns but kids can still get accidentally hurt..

< Message edited by tj444 -- 10/29/2013 12:55:21 PM >

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 572
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/29/2013 12:59:32 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

to me a handgun is like a bomb waiting to go off.


Ignorance creates fear (and, evidently, stupid similes).

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 573
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/29/2013 1:10:48 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		 I don't want to live in a country with this kind of gun culture

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A  One Constitutional infringement not only does not justify another, it make the next fight more important.

B  Then don't

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 574
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/29/2013 1:25:01 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		 lots of gun owners teach kids about guns but kids can still get accidentally hurt..

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But the chances are much better of them getting hurt if you keep them ignorant.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 575
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/29/2013 2:11:44 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Never mind.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/29/2013 2:26:51 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 576
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/29/2013 2:12:59 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world,
part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLN6_s66wTg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world, part 2


I thought this was worth reposting as it was toward the end of the other thread, and it's on every post in the signature line from tj444. While they are worth a watch they only prove the need for training and practice.

A few observations:


1) I seriously doubt the anti gun ABC would have shown any positive outcomes for the armed citizen assuming there was one.

2) One of the guys simulating the pandemonium in the classroom jumps over the counter into the middle of the room in front of the active shooter. I don't think that was a realistic.

3) Holstering your handgun straight up and down on the side of your dominate arm for concealed carry is a bad idea. It should have been holstered on the opposite side and canted forward for a cross draw. It's quicker and less likely to get caught up in the shirt. Even for a police officer sitting in a vehicle with his sidearm unconcealed, the cross draw is going to be quicker. Getting your concealed weapon caught up in clothing has been a consideration among gun toters since as far back as I can remember. Some handguns are even designed with that in mind such as smoothing sharp edges, especially the front and rear sights and cutting the hammer tail down or manufacturing with internal hammers on revolvers. The participants in the demonstration should have practiced drawing the weapon and they might have dramatically increased their speed.

4) What's up with the participants wearing gloves. I hate wearing a shooting glove and it certainly won't enhance the speed of your draw.

5) The guy playing the part of the active shooter was a professional, an instructor, ie expert. How advantageous for the expert vs the average or inexperienced shooter participant was that ?

< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 10/29/2013 2:32:49 PM >

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 577
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/29/2013 2:26:31 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Reminds me of one that  "proved"   that allowing permit holders to carry on college campus was futile.

They had several different groups go through each with an "armed" person the "bad guy won every time but once.

The "armed" student had to wear a yellow t-shirt and always had to set in the same chair.
The one exception was when one of the "students"  insisted on trading shirts and seats with another student. The "bad guy"  never knew what hit him.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 578
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/29/2013 5:14:21 PM   
NoBimbosAllowed


Posts: 1450
Joined: 9/19/2013
Status: offline 		again, all this is dependent on the willingness of a citizen to adhere to the law, and that means self-control, and impulse control, especially in heated situations.

Meatheads HAVE no impulse control, this is one of the main aspects of BEING a meathead.

There are many stringent and detailed laws concerning physical and verbal assault. Meatheads ignore those too.

If you look at how many people get pulled over by a cop for bad driving, in any country, then assault the cop, how many of them know even 2 names from the Literary or Cultural Luminaries of their own culture, no matter what that culture is? How many know who you mean when you invoke the name "Samuel Clemens" or explain what the wonder of John Henry beating the steam-machine meant? How many could answer you if you asked them "How many nights did Scheherezade have to spent trying to keep her head?", if you tried to stop them getting meat-head violent at a public event at a primarily Islamic side of town? If in an Irish area, how many would know the name of the fallen hero in the window of the first Non British National Post, in Ireland? And on, and on, and on.

_____________________________

It's all about the curvature of the female azzzzzzzzzzz, meaning Niki Minaj and Serena Williams and Kate Cerebrano, NEVER Kylie Minogue! Wooden Spoons and Ottoman scenes from Story of O, baby dolls!

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 579
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 10/29/2013 5:23:28 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

the Literary or Cultural Luminaries


How many would know when to capitalize?

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to NoBimbosAllowed)
Profile   Post #: 580
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