quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Beats admitting that they and the French wrote a treaty, over Wilsons objections, so harsh that it virtually assured WWII.

There's no denying that, although I think you're being kind when you say "virtually".

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

Then there was World War II, in which a lot of mass killing occurred in Central Europe. During the Cold War, there were a number of people shot trying to escape from behind the Iron Curtain, not to mention the atrocities committed by the regimes involved.

But since those were killings perpetrated by governments, I guess those are considered "good killings" in the eyes of Europeans, since governments can do no wrong.

I stopped answering because HunterCA is just writing random sentences that have only rhetorical value, but I want to make a point about this.
After WWII European culture changed a lot, for an example italian republic's costitution is dated 1946, and it's wrote so that our governament will never perpetrate such killings for example our governament can't declare war first, just defend if directly attacked or help an allied. About what happened on the other side of the iron curtain we were on the same side as you of that wall and I don't know where you heard that were good killings for europeans.

We wrote it for you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

Then there was World War II, in which a lot of mass killing occurred in Central Europe. During the Cold War, there were a number of people shot trying to escape from behind the Iron Curtain, not to mention the atrocities committed by the regimes involved.

But since those were killings perpetrated by governments, I guess those are considered "good killings" in the eyes of Europeans, since governments can do no wrong.

I stopped answering because HunterCA is just writing random sentences that have only rhetorical value, but I want to make a point about this.
After WWII European culture changed a lot, for an example italian republic's costitution is dated 1946, and it's wrote so that our governament will never perpetrate such killings for example our governament can't declare war first, just defend if directly attacked or help an allied. About what happened on the other side of the iron curtain we were on the same side as you of that wall and I don't know where you heard that were good killings for europeans.

We wrote it for you.

well.. you did a better job than with yours.

BTW an elected costitutional assembly wrote it, it was composed mainly by the national liberation comitate's patries, and italy changing side before the end of the war had different condition after the war.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

Then there was World War II, in which a lot of mass killing occurred in Central Europe. During the Cold War, there were a number of people shot trying to escape from behind the Iron Curtain, not to mention the atrocities committed by the regimes involved.

But since those were killings perpetrated by governments, I guess those are considered "good killings" in the eyes of Europeans, since governments can do no wrong.

I stopped answering because HunterCA is just writing random sentences that have only rhetorical value, but I want to make a point about this.
After WWII European culture changed a lot, for an example italian republic's costitution is dated 1946, and it's wrote so that our governament will never perpetrate such killings for example our governament can't declare war first, just defend if directly attacked or help an allied. About what happened on the other side of the iron curtain we were on the same side as you of that wall and I don't know where you heard that were good killings for europeans.

We wrote it for you.

well.. you did a better job than with yours.

BTW an elected costitutional assembly wrote it, it was composed mainly by the national liberation comitate's patries, and italy changing side before the end of the war had different condition after the war.

Not if it produced citizens who think individuality is a weakness.

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA
Help me if I'm wrong. I haven't checked this in years. But I do remember that violent crime was going down in Australia for a couple of decades until they enacted strict gun laws then they started to go up again. Largely rape and violent mugging since it was no longer expected that anyone would be able to defend themselves. I know violent crime increased for at least three years after confiscating all the guns and then I stopped checking.

I believe the same sort of thing happened in Britain.

And as I predicted, someone comes up with non-gun crimes in a gun thread. 

Actually, it's very relevant. All peer reviewed studies show that when the ability to carry guns is changed the nature of violent crime changes. More guns generates less rapes and muggings and increase property theft. Fewer guns available to people make violent crime go the other way. It makes sense if you are a criminal who suspects a victim may be armed that you're going to steal his car rather than confront him. Same for rapes.

Eulero did try to discuss violent crime, I give him that. He didnt state this aspect. You do have to look at crime as a whole to understand gun availability. Studies show that in the US when there are liberal gun rights, the incident of rape drops about 18 percent. So, we have a few gang bangers killing each other or rapes. I choose fewer rapes.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: Yachtie

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA
...unlike what you did to Germany after WWI, we let you reimburse us over sixty years. Hum, a small point being grasped for at best.

After what WE did to germany???
"U.S. policy in post-war Germany from April 1945 until July 1947 had been that no help should be given to the Germans in rebuilding their nation, save for the minimum required to mitigate starvation."

Little problem with the dates there, don't ya think?

I just quoted Wiki. If it's wrong, tell them, not me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aftermath_of_World_War_II

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ORIGINAL: crazyml

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
Marshall plan among other things, are you really that ignorant?

Totally fair point.

And one that really justifies a statement like "America made a tremendous contribution to the rebuilding of Europe post WWII", although it might be more accurate to say "Both sides of the political spectrum in the USA saw it as in the USA's long term interests to make a significant contribution to the rebuilding of Europe, notably in the face of fears about the threat of communisim".

It certainly does not justify a statement like "America then paid to rebuild Europe".

It's that whole "issue" some people have with the concept of "All" vs "Some".

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA
Oh, as an aside, the US then paid to rebuild Europe.

Citation please??

It's also a gun rights debate too.

Marshall plan among other things, are you really that ignorant?

If you think that your country paid for that, rather than getting the money back, then you're a lot more ignorant than he is. We were paying off the Marshall plan loans until 2006.

That's why I said the US didn't pay for it.
We borrowed the money. We paid it back.... with interest.
No balance owing. It means in the end the US paid jack shit and profitted from it.
I think you'll find some other countries had similar loans from the US, including the enemy.

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ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

I am now starting to understand why unmodded threads are a bad idea.

I just ploughed through the previous 3 pages and it was utter bollocks.

Will someone please look at the title of the thread.

Is hunter a sock?

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA
Oh, as an aside, the US then paid to rebuild Europe.

Citation please??

It's also a gun rights debate too.

Marshall plan among other things, are you really that ignorant?

If you think that your country paid for that, rather than getting the money back, then you're a lot more ignorant than he is. We were paying off the Marshall plan loans until 2006.

That's why I said the US didn't pay for it.
We borrowed the money. We paid it back.... with interest.
No balance owing. It means in the end the US paid jack shit and profitted from it.
I think you'll find some other countries had similar loans from the US, including the enemy.

No, we rebuilt Europe and Japan.

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ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

you know what they say about people who talk about themselves in the 3rd person don't you?

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

you know what they say about people who talk about themselves in the 3rd person don't you?

That the want to use their second amendment right to bring death to pixies?

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence.