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RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/5/2013 5:20:15 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Oh, like that's going to achieve anything.

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(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 861
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/5/2013 5:59:30 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence.


Hunter, if you could possibly move past the point of disparaging the 90% or so of the world's population who are more left wing than you are as 'extremists', it might, just might, move this discussion along. I hope that helps.


Yes, I see how you don't want to be treated as you (the metaphorical leftist you) treat others. But, then here it is again. I said let's get back on topic and three of you popped up to disparage me. Pot calling kettles things.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 862
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/5/2013 6:01:10 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		I would hope that everyone would disparage criminal violence, but as you can see from this thread, there is a lot of jingoism, revisionism, and othering going on from all corners of the globe.

The fundamental problem in comparing the US to other countries, is that there is no country with the needed factors to serve as a control.



quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence.



< Message edited by EdBowie -- 11/5/2013 6:06:54 PM >

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 863
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/5/2013 6:02:55 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence.


It is nearly 250 years old, times change, at least for the rest of the civilised world they do


Good, then you can discuss why the philosophy of the Enlightenment and Renaissance that culminated in the US constitution changed and the rights of man changed as well. Looking forward to your thesis.

(in reply to deathtothepixies)
Profile   Post #: 864
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/5/2013 6:10:37 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

I would hope that everyone would disparage criminal violence, but as you can see from this thread, there is a lot of jingoism, revisionism, and othering going on from all corners of the globe.

The fundamental problem in comparing the US to other countries, is that there is no country with the needed factors to serve as a control.



quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence.




But, after disparaging criminal violence, what right do individuals hold to protect themselves from said violence? I say a god given right that is not mitigated by a government.

< Message edited by HunterCA -- 11/5/2013 6:12:06 PM >

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 865
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/5/2013 6:10:47 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		When you can get your head around thr fact that 18 positives and 9 neutrals doesn't equate to 100% positives, and when you are capable of understanding that Lending is not the same as giving you might have a more rewarding experience

Oh... and here's another little clue-treat for ya..... l don't deny the evidence that in the USA c/c could have a positive impact on some crimes but claiming that 100% of the research says that is apt to make a person look pretty fucking stupid

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(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 866
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/5/2013 6:13:41 PM   
HunterCA


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Joined: 6/21/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

When you can get your head around thr fact that 18 positives and 9 neutrals doesn't equate to 100% positives, and when you are capable of understanding that Lending is not the same as giving you might have a more rewarding experience

Oh... and here's another little clue-treat for ya..... l don't deny the evidence that in the USA c/c could have a positive impact on some crimes but claiming that 100% of the research says that is apt to make a person look pretty fucking stupid


By mutual acclaim we are all past the rancor...aren't we folks.

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 867
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/5/2013 6:14:02 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Oh l do hope that you don't feel disparaged by me! l wasn't disparaging you ,just the utter shit you were talking!

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Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 868
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/5/2013 6:15:27 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Oh l do hope that you don't feel disparaged by me! l wasn't disparaging you ,just the utter shit you were talking!


Lol, look at edbowie. He's got something interesting to say. Don't you as well?

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 869
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/5/2013 6:18:13 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		I am simply trying to help you. I'm quite fond of you... you remind me of someone.

Someone who talks nonsense and doesn't know what 100% means!

It's very cute

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Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 870
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/5/2013 6:18:46 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		Others have said as much... the poet Dryden's 'eldest law' comes to mind. Apparently not everyone agrees that self defense is a good thing, but I'm in favor of it... myself.

The usual debate rhetoric seems to revolve around the logical fallacy that a right can be carried to the absurd.


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

I would hope that everyone would disparage criminal violence, but as you can see from this thread, there is a lot of jingoism, revisionism, and othering going on from all corners of the globe.

The fundamental problem in comparing the US to other countries, is that there is no country with the needed factors to serve as a control.



quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence.




But, after disparaging criminal violence, what right do individuals hold to protect themselves to protect themselves from said violence? I say whatever complete right.



< Message edited by EdBowie -- 11/5/2013 6:19:46 PM >

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 871
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/5/2013 6:20:21 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

I am simply trying to help you. I'm quite fond of you... you remind me of someone.

Someone who talks nonsense and doesn't know what 100% means!

It's very cute


We're waiting for a philosophical thesis from pixie. But, you can add something too if you wish.

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 872
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/5/2013 6:23:04 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Actually I'm waiting to see whether you understand what 100% means!

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Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 873
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/5/2013 6:25:52 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Others have said as much... the poet Dryden's 'eldest law' comes to mind. Apparently not everyone agrees that self defense is a good thing, but I'm in favor of it... myself.

The usual debate rhetoric seems to revolve around the logical fallacy that a right can be carried to the absurd.


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

I would hope that everyone would disparage criminal violence, but as you can see from this thread, there is a lot of jingoism, revisionism, and othering going on from all corners of the globe.

The fundamental problem in comparing the US to other countries, is that there is no country with the needed factors to serve as a control.



quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence.




But, after disparaging criminal violence, what right do individuals hold to protect themselves to protect themselves from said violence? I say whatever complete right.




That is an interesting point. It's also a point that a post modern philosopher would agree with from the standpoint of who judges 'right'. In my case I then have to go back to the question does might make right? In a majority of the world it does. For instance if I'm in a bad part of town and accosted by bad people, if I have the might do I have the right to protect myself to an extreme. I believe I do. That extreme may not be right in an alternate situation. But, what right does the government have to pre-ordain my right prior to examination of the situation?

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 874
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/5/2013 6:26:13 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

It is nearly 250 years old, times change, at least for the rest of the civilised world they do

The age of the document is not a basis for arguing against it.

K.


(in reply to deathtothepixies)
Profile   Post #: 875
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/5/2013 6:29:23 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline 		My point then becomes that the government may judge me after the fact for the extremity of my application of self defense but may not hinder me until that time. And then I have to man up and accept that judgement.

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 876
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/5/2013 6:31:55 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

My point then becomes that the government may judge me after the fact for the extremity of my application of self defense but may not hinder me until that time. And then I have to man up and accept that judgement.


Which was a considerable debate for me before I decided to obtain a concealed weapons permit. It's a debate I think everyone should have with themselves rather than just assume a government will protect them and keep them from evil.

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 877
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/5/2013 6:59:52 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

My feeling is that this thread has been hijacked by people who want to disparage "American Violence." I'd like to discuss the right of the individual as discussed in the constitution and Declaration of Independence.


Hunter, if you could possibly move past the point of disparaging the 90% or so of the world's population who are more left wing than you are as 'extremists', it might, just might, move this discussion along. I hope that helps.


peon, let's consider that Cuba, China, Vietnam, the fallen Soviet Union have all moved to market economies after finding socialism doesnt work. European socialism is failing. And Galileo teaches us that adherence to orthodoxy is not proof of being correct. I'm sure you'll give me a link for that 90%.

< Message edited by HunterCA -- 11/5/2013 7:02:22 PM >

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 878
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/5/2013 7:21:05 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Out of morbid curiosity.. which European countries would you say were socialist?

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 879
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/5/2013 8:10:48 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Out of morbid curiosity.. which European countries would you say were socialist?


You know, this is silly, and everyone is going to think its silly...but here goes. Some time in the past a guy goaded me, just like you're doing now. I succumbed to the goading. What I ended up doing was unofficially fighting the Mexican nation martial arts champion. After I kicked his ass I became pretty good friends with him. He told me that he knew for a fact that the guy who goaded me into the fight had a real tiny dick. No shit. If the fight had been official I could have made a lot of money.

But, that was over thirty years ago when I was a child. Since then I've accomplished a lot of cool things. It's actually nice to look on a life of accomplishments. Even to laugh at things like being goaded like that. Do you know what I mean?

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 880
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