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RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/9/2013 3:42:35 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Interesting debate on Concealed carry laws decrease crime, if anyone is interested.


I just bought a few new magazines for my primary carry weapon. Between posts I've been out on the porch running a few hundred rounds through each to make sure they function. I'll go read your debate now and get back with you.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 1201
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/9/2013 3:54:30 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		From the debate.

This exchange is the CON replying to a point made by PRO. I have edited as to understanding.

6:whereas open carry is much less scary [to the criminal, versus CC], as [the criminal] know who not to annoy

So my opponent is basically saying that seeing a person walk down the street with a gun is not scary. Well let me tell you something, i would be VERY scared. Concealed Carry laws DO threaten criminals more, but not in a necessarily good way. We aim to preserve life, do we not? Open carry laws PREVENT crimes before they happen, whereas CCL stop the crime in progress. When a criminal sees a person with a gun, he steers clear of said person, therefore causing no harm at all.


The good debater here, the CON, makes the PRO's side for him. He admits it. He'd be VERY scared. What's so hysterical is that he thinks he's refuting his opponent with his emotionalism.

The above is an example of how liberals argue. Is it any wonder he lost the debate?



_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 1202
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/9/2013 4:03:46 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: butternutsquash


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

You see, as with most liberals, your study authors believe that all bad actions of people are the result of economic injustice or prejudice.
Nothing in the university studies that I have cited here, except for those that supported early childhood education, said anything about socioeconomic standing.


Do you remember stating that the bad guy doesn't want to hurt you?
That means he isn't the sicko that you now claim he is.
Thus by your argument I get to draw and kill him before he can shoot, cause when threatened I am as sick as they come, and there is no way you will come to Alabama to kill me. 

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to butternutsquash)
Profile   Post #: 1203
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/9/2013 4:06:10 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Interesting debate on Concealed carry laws decrease crime, if anyone is interested.


I'm not. Can't we get back to how socialism is based on modern post boxes, or whatever it was? That was fun.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 1204
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/9/2013 4:15:12 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

From the debate.

This exchange is the CON replying to a point made by PRO. I have edited as to understanding.

6:whereas open carry is much less scary [to the criminal, versus CC], as [the criminal] know who not to annoy

So my opponent is basically saying that seeing a person walk down the street with a gun is not scary. Well let me tell you something, i would be VERY scared. Concealed Carry laws DO threaten criminals more, but not in a necessarily good way. We aim to preserve life, do we not? Open carry laws PREVENT crimes before they happen, whereas CCL stop the crime in progress. When a criminal sees a person with a gun, he steers clear of said person, therefore causing no harm at all.


The good debater here, the CON, makes the PRO's side for him. He admits it. He'd be VERY scared. What's so hysterical is that he thinks he's refuting his opponent with his emotionalism.

The above is an example of how liberals argue. Is it any wonder he lost the debate?




First off I have to admit I'm weird about this. When I went to a real estate salesman to buy the property I'm on now, I gave him one instruction, "Find me a place the neighbors expect to hear guns from me." I met most of my neighbors because when they heard me shooting the figured I was friendly and came over to say hello. I have the local Game Wardens phone number and call him when local poaching is going on. I know when it's poaching because I know where all my neighbors shoot and if a shot come from somewhere else, and there are no open hunting season...or most especially it's night I know it's from someone not from around here doing something that he shouldn't be doing.

So, that illustrates three points. First, if I see someone open carrying, I'll usually go over and say hello and in my experience the person has always been friendly. But, that's my mind set. A predator would certainly have another mind set I agree.

Second, in the con's arguments it was always, well if you have a person carrying a gun, then this may happen which may cause that to happen and then all hell could break loose. So the guy was not even arguing anything in the real world with which I'm familiar. I handle guns every day. I shoot a lot. I have lots of friends who shoot a lot. None of any of Con's projected arguments are anything I've ever seen or heard about they were just worst case projections to make his argument seem to have weight.

Third, the point to carrying concealed is so the bad guy can't guess who is armed and turns his attention to stealing cars and burglarizing empty houses. The point is to turn the predator into a "property crime" bad guy rather than a "human predator" guy.

Just like when I see a guy carrying open, I'm always armed and I always treat everyone else as if they are armed. It's a much more civil society that way.

But, hey, I believe dueling should be legal so that those puny little metrosexuals who think a vehement response makes them look dandy to the girls would have to back up their point.


< Message edited by HunterCA -- 11/9/2013 4:25:14 PM >

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 1205
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/9/2013 4:19:22 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Interesting debate on Concealed carry laws decrease crime, if anyone is interested.


I'm not. Can't we get back to how socialism is based on modern post boxes, or whatever it was? That was fun.


We call them post boxes here. Wasn't it you who said we don't speak English because we changed all the names of things like hoods and bonnets?

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 1206
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/9/2013 4:20:40 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Interesting debate on Concealed carry laws decrease crime, if anyone is interested.


I'm not. Can't we get back to how socialism is based on modern post boxes, or whatever it was? That was fun.


We call them post boxes here. Wasn't it you who said we don't speak English because we changed all the names of things like hoods and bonnets?


Oh no, sorry we mostly call them mail boxes. But a postal box is a thing here.

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 1207
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/9/2013 6:57:35 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		On the run when confronted with reality... how unsurprising, not to mention unoriginal


quote:

ORIGINAL: butternutsquash

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014481889800012X

http://www.nasponline.org/resources/crisis_safety/Youth_Gun_Violence_Fact_Sheet.pdf

I have argued with you all I'm going to, having gotten behind on my work. It has been an enjoyable discussion, though, and thank you for your input. Goodbye.

(in reply to butternutsquash)
Profile   Post #: 1208
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/9/2013 11:38:25 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

If by 'sociopath', you are referring to the fact that police and military have to overcome the natural reluctance to pull the trigger in a life or death situation, that's true.

Having both military and law enforcement, I never did lose your so called reluctance to shoot. butternutsquash has spoken the truth, it is just that as the saying goes "None so blind as those who will not see." And there are so many here that fit that.

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 1209
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/10/2013 1:48:40 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: butternutsquash

This fully offsets years of frustration. This is the best thing that has happened for my mental health in years and years.

So you are a sock, eh?

Well I hope your mental health improves. There's plenty of room for it.

And just in case it doesn't, here a gallon of your favorite color.



No need to thank me. You're quite welcome.

K.


(in reply to butternutsquash)
Profile   Post #: 1210
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/10/2013 6:27:36 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: butternutsquash

There has to be reasonable suspicion on the part of the person hearing the threat that it might actually be carried out. I have no way of knowing the place of residence of anyone here, and the person that I was addressing has already stated clearly his belief that I am unlikely to carry it out. You have to read the full law. Legally, my remarks here easily fall under the category of protected speech. If the person I was talking to hadn't scoffed, it might have been a different story but still probably not.

And "mama's basement"? Dude, you're really desperate.

Again, all you have done here is admit that you talk out your ass.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to butternutsquash)
Profile   Post #: 1211
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/10/2013 6:32:14 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: butternutsquash


I have argued with you all I'm going to, having gotten behind on my work. It has been an enjoyable discussion, though, and thank you for your input. Goodbye.

.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to butternutsquash)
Profile   Post #: 1212
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/10/2013 7:09:26 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I don't have any illusion that I would be able to whip out a gun in time to shoot a mugger: in real life, a mugging is something that happens very very fast, and you are normally too confused and scared to actually react intelligently.


You should continue to speak in the first person after the semi-colon; that is to say that whereas you might well be " too confused and scared to actually react intelligently", others may not be. (See: George Zimmerman).

Here is a link to hundreds if not thousand of armed people who were able to defend themselves, their families, and complete strangers from the violence of others in situations ranging from street muggings to home invasions to attacks by pit bulls.

It's a dangerous world. My family and I go armed.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to butternutsquash)
Profile   Post #: 1213
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/10/2013 7:15:29 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

In fact, whether you believe it or not, I actually have a pretty spartan idea


I would think that's obvious to anyone who has read even two of your posts.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to butternutsquash)
Profile   Post #: 1214
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/10/2013 7:19:45 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Citing John Lott, who is a proven hack and utterly discredited, doesn't count as "scientific evidence,"


The research and methodology of Dr. Lott has been exhaustively peer-reviewed and never, to my knowledge, been found lacking by an educated and qualified person.

Please. Try to prove me wrong. Cite the article and publication, the treatise, the book....

Keep looking.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to butternutsquash)
Profile   Post #: 1215
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/10/2013 7:22:58 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I don't doubt for a second that your 'I'm above the law' attitude plus being coddled here wouldn't encourage to you act out some harmful fantasies in real life, given a chance.


Here we disagree.
There's no way he has the courage even for a fight, much less a gunfight.
This is his only arena.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to EdBowie)
Profile   Post #: 1216
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/10/2013 7:54:24 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		First, the article cited says nothing of Dr Lott; I thought his research was something you were trying to refute.

Second, the CDC "research" was ludicrous. In their flagshjp "study" they concluded firearms were oh so dangerous to keep in the home by counting dead home invaders exactly the same way as children accidentally shot after finding and "playing" with their parent's guns: as victims.

It was a "study" with a pre-determined objective and was a complete waste of time, tax-payer money, and intelligence.

< Message edited by truckinslave -- 11/10/2013 8:04:00 AM >

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to butternutsquash)
Profile   Post #: 1217
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/10/2013 9:06:06 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		Just to let you guys know, Gabrielle Giffords has complied a list of Veterans who want reasonable gun control laws, I sent her a request to be added to the list.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 1218
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/10/2013 9:08:52 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Just to let you guys know, Gabrielle Giffords has complied a list of Veterans who want reasonable gun control laws, I sent her a request to be added to the list.

Now that's just mean. Why would you want to undermine her credibility?

K.




< Message edited by Kirata -- 11/10/2013 9:10:19 AM >

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 1219
RE: ***Unmoderated Gun rights debate - Self Defense to ... - 11/10/2013 9:10:03 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Lots of people do lots of things, including making silly lists.

There is one, and only one, legal and honest way to further restrict access to firearms: repeal the 2nd Amendment.
Good luck with that.


_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 1220
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