BDSM and Ego (Full Version)

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casidi75 -> BDSM and Ego (9/27/2013 1:14:43 PM)

Another newbie question. When I am sessioning there is no stress, no world, no effort to reason or resist. Is this a escape from ego. Is subspace what this is or is that something else. For those who may take offense to this or be agravated by my cluelessness. You have my appologies it is not my intention.



OsideGirl -> RE: BDSM and Ego (9/27/2013 1:18:45 PM)

People have different definitions of what subspace is for them. For me it is a trance like state brought on by an endorphin high. That state is made possible because I trust him enough to completely let go and because there's connection of energy between the two of us that is just magical.



Aibo -> RE: BDSM and Ego (9/27/2013 1:51:51 PM)

Oh don't be worried about feeling clueless casidi. I had quite some experience with BDSM and were completely unaware of the mental state of subspace also. My first gf never got there. And it were only with my second partner I encountered it and also had to ask about it online.

But OsideGirl is correct, it is a trance like mental state.



MistressDarkArt -> RE: BDSM and Ego (9/27/2013 2:01:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: casidi75

Another newbie question. When I am sessioning there is no stress, no world, no effort to reason or resist. Is this a escape from ego.


I think of it more as a form of meditation shared by the folks participating. Putting ego aside during this time is what makes it so wonderful. Egos take a lot of work. It's nice to give them a rest every now and again.

As Oside said, subspace is an altered state caused by endorphin flood. It's a really awesome place to be if you and your partner(s) can achieve it. What creates it is different for each person. Experimenting is fun whether you get there or not. Sounds like you're on your way!



HarryVanWinkle -> RE: BDSM and Ego (9/27/2013 2:03:02 PM)

The more clues I get, the more clueless I become.

But OsideGirl gave you a great clue.



theshytype -> RE: BDSM and Ego (9/27/2013 2:59:28 PM)

I've always thought of it as a "happy place" without any additional explanation as to why (more of a "if it feels good, why question it" attitude).
I can see the letting go of my ego, letting go of the conscious and other realities, as a part of the experience. But, for me, I don't believe that ego is lifted until after I've reached that space.
Maybe the endorphins are the cause, the subsided ego the effect.

Also, being clueless or wrong isn't necessarily a problem. An unwillingness to admit it and learn can be.




cloudboy -> RE: BDSM and Ego (9/27/2013 3:05:18 PM)

The sports term is "being in the 'zone.'" To get there, by art more than conscious action, one has to suspend the super-ego and be completely in the moment. Endorphin highs can still be undercut by anxieties, worries, and other forms of self consciousness, so the art of letting go, acceptance, and being in the present remain vitally important.

Experiencing this is quite cathartic. I think it really helps one's mental health and it also gives you a strong sense of connectedness and self.

The tools of BDSM really help sever you from distractions.



AaNiMaLl -> RE: BDSM and Ego (9/27/2013 3:12:05 PM)

I think that this must be nice, being submissive and being able to let go of a need for power. However, dominance is ingrained in me so much and my ego so strong that I could never do it. Maybe in another life :). ...I suppose another question could be, if submission is the destruction of ego, then is dominance the bolstering of ego. This is the single most prominent debate of psychoanalysts. It also has strong roots in Nietzsche's philosophy. Are we here to create or destroy? For peace or chaos? It is impossible to say that we should be here for one or the other. Perhaps it has something to do with ritms and cycles. One thing that I do believe is that it is a contention of the two. And ideally we need to be able to be both. To be like water. Flowing or crashing.

The interesting thing on top of all this is that I know that my need for dominance is driven by feelings of powerlessness.



cloudboy -> RE: BDSM and Ego (9/27/2013 3:17:16 PM)

I think a dominant really has to get into sync with her partner. Presentness and immediacy are important for you too. Instead of "letting go," you have to practice mindful attentiveness and the thrill of someone responding to you. A good part of this is both intuitive and primal as opposed to rational, thinking, and self conscious.

It is like the flow of water described in your profile.



TigressLily -> RE: BDSM and Ego (9/27/2013 4:02:27 PM)


Not powerlessness so much as the deep-seated need for control. I have no issue with someone else wanting to be in charge or ostensibly taking a leadership role in one capacity or another (have no authority-figure issues). I don't consider myself a control freak, though; I find that to be a sign of insecurity. The control freaks I've known or worked for/with have been either perpetually driven to prove their dominance, can't stand to not be the center of attention, and tend to flaunt their (often imagined) power over others. The nonD-type control freaks I've noticed act out by displaying bratty, insubordinate behavior.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AaNiMaLl

However, dominance is ingrained in me so much and my ego so strong that I could never do it.... One thing that I do believe is that it is a contention of the two. And ideally we need to be able to be both. To be like water. Flowing or crashing.

The interesting thing on top of all this is that I know that my need for dominance is driven by feelings of powerlessness.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I think a dominant really has to get into sync with her partner. Presentness and immediacy are important for you too. Instead of "letting go," you have to practice mindful attentiveness and the thrill of someone responding to you. A good part of this is both intuitive and primal as opposed to rational, thinking, and self conscious.

It is like the flow of water described in your profile.



This is why I can't session with just anybody, regardless of whether there is actual sex involved. He's naked in most instances, there's physical contact and/or an intimate connection intertwined with personal trust & vulnerability, mutual gratification in one form or another. Without that close emotional bond in place, we are serving as one another's surrogates, which does not give me erotic fulfillment. This is how I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that it isn't about power. Perhaps the control issue is related to power, but not the expression of who I am as a Dominant.

_____________________________

* * * Not A Fetish/Kink Delivery System * * *



AaNiMaLl -> RE: BDSM and Ego (9/27/2013 7:26:21 PM)

quote:

This is why I can't session with just anybody, regardless of whether there is actual sex involved. He's naked in most instances, there's physical contact and/or an intimate connection intertwined with personal trust & vulnerability, mutual gratification in one form or another. Without that close emotional bond in place, we are serving as one another's surrogates, which does not give me erotic fulfillment. This is how I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that it isn't about power. Perhaps the control issue is related to power, but not the expression of who I am as a Dominant.


I think that I grasp some of what you are saying. However, to me bdsm has nothing to do with erotic fulfillment. I get erotic fulfilment but I have noticed that that isn't really the point. I tell her to show me her breasts all the time not because I want to see her naked but simply because it means that she is vulnerable to me and as a sign of submission. I used to think that I did it because it was erotic but it isn't.

It is like this. There are a whole lot of exercises for me to exert my dominance or control. When I do this then my ego gets huge. With a huge ego and this swelling of self, then I get turned on sexually. But the power comes first and leads to but is independent of the sex. The power is an end in itself NOT a means to an end.

I like this notion of surrogates. But surrogate has so many different meanings. Can you elaborate on what you are talking about here?

Cloudboy: I see what you are saying. But it has to all work together I think. Rational cannot be totally independent of emotional. But I think that is what you are saying. That there needs to be balance between the two. And that is flow when everything is in total balance so that is totally natural. And this has to be tied to notions of freedom as well. But that is another topic. ...it is like that though. First came emotional power and ego. Then came rational freedom and choice. And when the two align then that is everythingness and nothingness, love and hate, stiff and loose, all at once. Where we are free to move about in a cycle of ying and yang. Counter balancing energies. Not as surrogates but complementaries. Sharing our innate natural selves.

I was just thinking about it on another level. Ego is one part of who we are. There is also the id and superego. And the id is always the driving force behind everything that we do. And it is the hardest thing to change and develop. And the most important to develop. Ego is just surface. To really develop and change who we are emotionally is good. Like listening to a song. I cannot enjoy it if I think about it with my mind / ego. I can only enjoy it if I shake my head like and animal and feel it in the deepest parts of me. ...I cannot get sexually aroused if I think of all the atoms and things that make up the human body. Only if I see it without seeing. The sensation going directly from the world to my cock. Without any interference of issues. No grid. No filtering. And this is like the opposite to control because I am being driven not driving myself. So as a dominant, I am as vulnerable as a submissive. I need her to be as submissive as I am dominant. She becomes an emotional extension.

You think that I talk a lot here :) See me in real life. I am going for job interviews at the moment. I drown them in information.
_____________________________

* * * Not A Fetish/Kink Delivery System * * *



TigressLily -> RE: BDSM and Ego (9/27/2013 8:03:23 PM)

See, for me the BDSM aspect has everything to do with erotic fulfillment. My psychological needs get met within the D/s-M/s construct. I would have no use for the mechanical go-by-the-motions of Topping if it I didn't find it arousing. In other words, I could do without the BDSM* but not without an intimate D/s relationship, because the act of Topping in itself does nothing for my ego.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AaNiMaLl

However, to me bdsm has nothing to do with erotic fulfillment.


* I think. Theoretically speaking. Don't hold me to it. (I will deny I ever said such thing and demand irrefutable proof.)

quote:

But surrogate has so many different meanings. Can you elaborate on what you are talking about here?


I'm referring to substitution. Settling for less than first choice, going with whatever option is available at the moment. Remember when you couldn't get the person you really wanted, but somebody else threw herself/himself at you, so that's who you ended up with? You may have been that person's first choice, but s/he wasn't yours. Within this context, I'm referring to having a play partner for the sake of having a play partner, simply to fill a void. Your heart isn't really into it, and I don't believe that's fair to either party. I don't go for NSA/FWB casual sex, and that's how I meant it.

_____________________________

* * * Not A Fetish/Kink Delivery System * * *



LadyPact -> RE: BDSM and Ego (9/27/2013 8:33:16 PM)

How can one pose a "newbie" question when they have been doing WIITWD for 25 years? Something is rotten in Denmark and it stinks like shit.

For those who participate in TTTWD, I feel it is a serious advantage to understand brain chemistry. It's fascinating stuff. If one has even a basic understanding of how the brain works, they can unlock so much in understanding about endorphins and how they affect us.

If you are confusing space with ego, OP, I would suggest you do some reading.



casidi75 -> RE: BDSM and Ego (9/27/2013 10:20:48 PM)

In 2 relationships the exposher to reality is limited



casidi75 -> RE: BDSM and Ego (9/27/2013 10:23:16 PM)

Thanks evryone for clearing the the relationship between the 2



angelikaJ -> RE: BDSM and Ego (9/27/2013 11:10:43 PM)

For me it is my very-busy left brain turning off.
http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html
"Floating" is something different for me.



casidi75 -> RE: BDSM and Ego (9/28/2013 8:27:26 AM)

This I certainly relate to. The rush of adrenaline before and durring and the morfine like adrenalin after. It sure clear my stress and puts me in a good place



casidi75 -> RE: BDSM and Ego (9/28/2013 8:28:41 AM)

I have never floated but always wanted to fly. Thanks for the imput



casidi75 -> RE: BDSM and Ego (9/28/2013 8:31:13 AM)

Thank you for the direction. There is a lot out there for books many writen for the how to mechanics. Have you read a book that explains the head space dynamics? If so can point me that way.



casidi75 -> RE: BDSM and Ego (9/28/2013 8:32:20 AM)

What does TTTWD mean?



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