how much will exchanges save? (Full Version)

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DomKen -> how much will exchanges save? (9/30/2013 8:30:32 PM)

Using
http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/

A family of 4 (man 40, woman 38, boy 10 and girl 8 all nonsmokers and no college students) making $50k per year in zipcode 60640 (my home)
The cheapest plan is $273.39 per month with a $20,000 deductible and a 20% copay (clearly a so called catastrophic care plan).

I'll wait till the exchange website is open and I'll post a follow up to see how much that family could save.

Any guesses?




TreasureKY -> RE: how much will exchanges save? (9/30/2013 9:46:05 PM)

The ACA would not allow this family to carry catastrophic coverage. Only individuals under the age of 30 can do so.

I do not disagree that the cost and availability of healthcare is an issue, but I seriously believe people are going to be extremely disappointed.




DomKen -> RE: how much will exchanges save? (9/30/2013 9:48:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

The ACA would not allow this family to carry catastrophic coverage. Only individuals under the age of 30 can do so.

I do not disagree that the cost and availability of healthcare is an issue, but I seriously believe people are going to be extremely disappointed.

Who in their right mind would want to carry only catastrophic coverage? Do you have $20 grand in the bank to spend if you break a leg?

BTW the exchanges website is so overwhelmed I couldn't get to the comparison page. I'll keep trying.




Phydeaux -> RE: how much will exchanges save? (9/30/2013 10:29:41 PM)

I would hardly call this plan a catastrophic plan. It covers things that aren't catastrophes and which I have no interest in having covered. Catastrophic plans don't cover routine healthcare; nor routine prophylaxis or medical devices (glasses, contacts etc).

If you're under like 40, and not female they're the only kind of insurance that makes sense - and about the only thing that really functions as *insurance*.




TreasureKY -> RE: how much will exchanges save? (9/30/2013 10:50:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Who in their right mind would want to carry only catastrophic coverage? Do you have $20 grand in the bank to spend if you break a leg?


While searching for a plan last year, I found a perfect one for us... a catastrophic plan. Fairly small monthly premium of around $420, covered nothing* until we'd paid out of pocket $10,000, then covered everything at 100% for the remainder of the year. The $10,000 deductible was total for all family members, with 100% paid for any family member(s) afterwards.

We don't need anyone else to pay for our yearly physicals. We don't need anyone else to cover our lab fees or xrays or the doctor visit for a sinus infection. We don't need anyone else to pay for any prescriptions. We're fairly healthy and those expenses don't hit all at once and we're more than able to absorb the costs.

What would impact us financially is a major medical event requiring surgery or hospitalization or other significant healthcare. At which point the catastrophic policy would kick in and relieve us of any costs beyond the $10,000 point. At least until the following year.

We spend perhaps $2500 a year on annual physicals, doctor visits and prescriptions. Including the monthly premiums with the above catastrophic policy, that's about $7500 per year. If something catastrophic were to happen, our total out of pocket for that year would be $15,000 (the $2500 spent on physicals, etc. is credited toward the $10,000 deductible).

The Kentucky Exchange is open now and I've done some initial checking. The cheapest plan for us appears to be a bronze plan that is offered through the Kentucky Health Cooperative and it runs just over $800 a month.

Should we not be eligible for any subsidy (which is doubtful because we make a decent living), we're already worse off financially. Obviously, at $800 a month, the monthly premium is $380 a month more expensive. Even taking into consideration that it covers annual physicals at 100% with no co-pay, we don't spend $4560 on average each year for medical expenses... which is how much those higher premiums are going to cost us.

Essentially, after the annual physicals the bronze plans only start paying after the $4750 per person or $12,700 per family deductible is met. Then, it will only pay 50%, up until we've reached our in-network out-of-pocket maximum of $6350 per person/$12,700 per family.

If something catastrophic happened (assuming just one individual), our total costs (including the monthly premiums, deductible and max out-of-pocket) just for that one person for the year would be $20,700. And we still wouldn't have reached the $12,700 family deductible/out-of-pocket maximums (premiums do not count toward deductibles) and could have additional medical expenses for other family members.

So... you ask who in their right mind would want to carry only catastrophic coverage?

We would. But unlucky for us, we're over 50 and the government says we can't.

If you like your plan, you can keep your plan. [:'(]

* I cannot recall at this time, but I do believe annual physicals were covered at 100%. I remember thinking that it appeared as if they'd tried to tailor the plan to abide by the requirements of the ACA.




DomKen -> RE: how much will exchanges save? (9/30/2013 11:21:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I would hardly call this plan a catastrophic plan. It covers things that aren't catastrophes and which I have no interest in having covered. Catastrophic plans don't cover routine healthcare; nor routine prophylaxis or medical devices (glasses, contacts etc).

If you're under like 40, and not female they're the only kind of insurance that makes sense - and about the only thing that really functions as *insurance*.


You don't call a plan that covers nothing not required by law until you are out 20k is not a catastrophic plan? What the fuck do you consider such a plan.




DomKen -> RE: how much will exchanges save? (9/30/2013 11:29:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Who in their right mind would want to carry only catastrophic coverage? Do you have $20 grand in the bank to spend if you break a leg?


While searching for a plan last year, I found a perfect one for us... a catastrophic plan. Fairly small monthly premium of around $420, covered nothing* until we'd paid out of pocket $10,000, then covered everything at 100% for the remainder of the year. The $10,000 deductible was total for all family members, with 100% paid for any family member(s) afterwards.

We don't need anyone else to pay for our yearly physicals. We don't need anyone else to cover our lab fees or xrays or the doctor visit for a sinus infection. We don't need anyone else to pay for any prescriptions. We're fairly healthy and those expenses don't hit all at once and we're more than able to absorb the costs.

What would impact us financially is a major medical event requiring surgery or hospitalization or other significant healthcare. At which point the catastrophic policy would kick in and relieve us of any costs beyond the $10,000 point. At least until the following year.

We spend perhaps $2500 a year on annual physicals, doctor visits and prescriptions. Including the monthly premiums with the above catastrophic policy, that's about $7500 per year. If something catastrophic were to happen, our total out of pocket for that year would be $15,000 (the $2500 spent on physicals, etc. is credited toward the $10,000 deductible).

The Kentucky Exchange is open now and I've done some initial checking. The cheapest plan for us appears to be a bronze plan that is offered through the Kentucky Health Cooperative and it runs just over $800 a month.

Should we not be eligible for any subsidy (which is doubtful because we make a decent living), we're already worse off financially. Obviously, at $800 a month, the monthly premium is $380 a month more expensive. Even taking into consideration that it covers annual physicals at 100% with no co-pay, we don't spend $4560 on average each year for medical expenses... which is how much those higher premiums are going to cost us.

Essentially, after the annual physicals the bronze plans only start paying after the $4750 per person or $12,700 per family deductible is met. Then, it will only pay 50%, up until we've reached our in-network out-of-pocket maximum of $6350 per person/$12,700 per family.

If something catastrophic happened (assuming just one individual), our total costs (including the monthly premiums, deductible and max out-of-pocket) just for that one person for the year would be $20,700. And we still wouldn't have reached the $12,700 family deductible/out-of-pocket maximums (premiums do not count toward deductibles) and could have additional medical expenses for other family members.

So... you ask who in their right mind would want to carry only catastrophic coverage?

We would. But unlucky for us, we're over 50 and the government says we can't.

If you like your plan, you can keep your plan. [:'(]

* I cannot recall at this time, but I do believe annual physicals were covered at 100%. I remember thinking that it appeared as if they'd tried to tailor the plan to abide by the requirements of the ACA.

I've got say that if you think it is wise that 2 people over 50 carry only catastrophic coverage I'll have to disagree. I was in my mid 40's in good health, no diagnosed conditions and normal BP and blood sugar after my last physical. I got a MRSA infection, No one knows how. I was in the hospital for two weeks and came out with one completely failed kidney and one failing rapidly. Total bill to me and my insurance was slightly over 100k. The aftermath involved lots of specialists, nephrologists, transplant surgeons), dialysis, high BP and my blood sugar and A1C is starting to trend towards diabetes. Each dialysis is billed to at around 2500 and I go 3 days a week.

So would you really be able to deal with that with just a catastrophic plan? Would you want to raise school age kids with just a catastrophic plan?




Phydeaux -> RE: how much will exchanges save? (9/30/2013 11:35:41 PM)

I am sorry for your medical troubles Ken.

Doesn't change my opinion, however.




DomKen -> RE: how much will exchanges save? (9/30/2013 11:39:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I am sorry for your medical troubles Ken.

Doesn't change my opinion, however.


I don't want or need your sympathy I would like an answer to the question, would you want to be in my shoes with just a catastrophic plan?




joether -> RE: how much will exchanges save? (10/1/2013 5:00:44 AM)

You might try this handy little calculator to get a decent estimate. But consult your local exchange when you can for the actual plans.

I hear about cases like yours DK all the time. An it discourages me to hear that you went through all that suffering. For what its worth, I hope your condition stays stabilized (if not improving) for a long, long time.




TreasureKY -> RE: how much will exchanges save? (10/1/2013 5:23:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I've got say that if you think it is wise that 2 people over 50 carry only catastrophic coverage I'll have to disagree. I was in my mid 40's in good health, no diagnosed conditions and normal BP and blood sugar after my last physical. I got a MRSA infection, No one knows how. I was in the hospital for two weeks and came out with one completely failed kidney and one failing rapidly. Total bill to me and my insurance was slightly over 100k. The aftermath involved lots of specialists, nephrologists, transplant surgeons), dialysis, high BP and my blood sugar and A1C is starting to trend towards diabetes. Each dialysis is billed to at around 2500 and I go 3 days a week.

So would you really be able to deal with that with just a catastrophic plan? Would you want to raise school age kids with just a catastrophic plan?


Age really has nothing to do with it; for us or any children. It's math...

We can pay $800 a month for a "normal" insurance plan where we still have to meet our deductible, pay co-pays and co-insurance, and our out-of-pocket maximum for the year is almost $21k including the premiums.

Or we pay $420 a month for a catastrophic plan where we pay for our own medical expenses until the deductible is met, and our out-of-pocket maximum for the year is only $15k including the premiums.

$420 < $800

$15,000 < $20,700

While I am truly sorry you've had health issues to deal with, if we have similar we'd still be better off with the catastrophic coverage. It covers the same medical bills and procedures. We just end up getting to keep about $6000 more of our money with the catastrophic plan.




Yachtie -> RE: how much will exchanges save? (10/1/2013 5:29:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'll wait till the exchange website is open and I'll post a follow up to see how much that family could save.

Any guesses?


Perhaps a lot. Like, a total savings.

If you don't spend it, it's saved till you do. [:D]




DomKen -> RE: how much will exchanges save? (10/1/2013 5:35:18 AM)

Using the calculator, the actual system won't let you see plans until you've entered stuff like names and SS#'s for people which don't actually exist for my test, that family would pay, after the tax credit, $104.08 per month for a bronze plan which AIUI is slightly better than the catastrophic plan in my first post. For the silver plans, which are more what people think of as health insurance, the monthly premium would be, again after the tax credit, $280.41 per month which is almost exactly what would be paid outside the exchange for the very cheapest, and likely worst, catastrophic insurance plan.

Seems to me pretty clear that this will be a huge help to middle and lower class families who do not get decent insurance through their jobs.

quote:

An it discourages me to hear that you went through all that suffering. For what its worth, I hope your condition stays stabilized (if not improving) for a long, long time.

Kidney failure sucks but it is more annoying than really life threatening although the dietary restrictions are very hard to live with, no oranges, bananas or melons for instance. I am on the transplant list and since I'm not sick or having trouble tolerating dialysis I'm holding out for a very good match so I'll be on the mildest anti rejection drug regime afterwards.

I really didn't know how messed up our health care delivery system is until I started dealing with it in such an intense fashion.




DomKen -> RE: how much will exchanges save? (10/1/2013 5:37:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'll wait till the exchange website is open and I'll post a follow up to see how much that family could save.

Any guesses?


Perhaps a lot. Like, a total savings.

If you don't spend it, it's saved till you do. [:D]

Yes, it looks like the load was heavier than the systems could handle. I guess a lot more people wanted to sign up as soon as they could than even the Administration anticipated.




DomKen -> RE: how much will exchanges save? (10/1/2013 5:39:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I've got say that if you think it is wise that 2 people over 50 carry only catastrophic coverage I'll have to disagree. I was in my mid 40's in good health, no diagnosed conditions and normal BP and blood sugar after my last physical. I got a MRSA infection, No one knows how. I was in the hospital for two weeks and came out with one completely failed kidney and one failing rapidly. Total bill to me and my insurance was slightly over 100k. The aftermath involved lots of specialists, nephrologists, transplant surgeons), dialysis, high BP and my blood sugar and A1C is starting to trend towards diabetes. Each dialysis is billed to at around 2500 and I go 3 days a week.

So would you really be able to deal with that with just a catastrophic plan? Would you want to raise school age kids with just a catastrophic plan?


Age really has nothing to do with it; for us or any children. It's math...

We can pay $800 a month for a "normal" insurance plan where we still have to meet our deductible, pay co-pays and co-insurance, and our out-of-pocket maximum for the year is almost $21k including the premiums.

Or we pay $420 a month for a catastrophic plan where we pay for our own medical expenses until the deductible is met, and our out-of-pocket maximum for the year is only $15k including the premiums.

$420 < $800

$15,000 < $20,700

While I am truly sorry you've had health issues to deal with, if we have similar we'd still be better off with the catastrophic coverage. It covers the same medical bills and procedures. We just end up getting to keep about $6000 more of our money with the catastrophic plan.

Check the annual and lifetime limits. And I really don't know where you found a catastrophic with no copay but if the math works out then good for you I just hope nothing bad happens and you regret not having good coverage.




TreasureKY -> RE: how much will exchanges save? (10/1/2013 7:43:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Check the annual and lifetime limits. And I really don't know where you found a catastrophic with no copay but if the math works out then good for you I just hope nothing bad happens and you regret not having good coverage.


While the brochure and benefits summary do not indicate limits, per the ACA, there are no lifetime plan limits and currently a $2million annual limit minimum for EHB (Essential Healthcare Benefits). Effective 1/1/14, there will be no dollar limits allowed for EHB at all.

I did go back and look up the plan and found it with Blue Cross and Blue Shield. While I was correct in recalling that they do cover preventative care at 100% without meeting the deductible and with no co-pay or co-insurance, I had the deductible amount wrong. It is $11,000 and not $10,000.

Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield Lumenos HSA Plus 0%(Family)

It is the deductible only plan described.

As this plan covers nearly everything that any other "good" plan has (it doesn't cover maternity but I'm neither interested and am too old to have any more children now, anyway), I'm not quite sure why you would automatically consider it a regrettable choice if something bad happens.

I can't say for sure, but it appears we might be able to have this insurance after all. It's just not something we would be offered through the marketplace and we wouldn't be eligible for any subsidies or cost reductions.




mnottertail -> RE: how much will exchanges save? (10/1/2013 7:51:59 AM)

MNsure is not up yet, just checked, supposed to go live this afternoon.




DomKen -> RE: how much will exchanges save? (10/1/2013 7:57:40 AM)

It was my experience that catastrophic care plans had numerous exclusions and limitations on their coverage but that was about 6 years ago when I helped choose the benefits package for the company I worked for back then. For example that complete exclusion for maternity would have made that policy unacceptable for the employees we had. Others like 20% co pays on top of the deductible. In general the plans struck me as horrible.




Phydeaux -> RE: how much will exchanges save? (10/1/2013 9:38:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I am sorry for your medical troubles Ken.

Doesn't change my opinion, however.


I don't want or need your sympathy I would like an answer to the question, would you want to be in my shoes with just a catastrophic plan?


No one wants to have a medical catastrophe.

Would I prefer to have catastrophic insurance and use the money I saved and invest it into things - yes absolutely. In fact, more to the point I am without health insurance. I have health issues, tho not as severe as yours - and I wouldn't change a thing about how I have lived my life.





Phydeaux -> RE: how much will exchanges save? (10/1/2013 9:40:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'll wait till the exchange website is open and I'll post a follow up to see how much that family could save.

Any guesses?


Perhaps a lot. Like, a total savings.

If you don't spend it, it's saved till you do. [:D]

Yes, it looks like the load was heavier than the systems could handle. I guess a lot more people wanted to sign up as soon as they could than even the Administration anticipated.


Or, as more likely, it simply doesn't work right.




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