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Punishment. - 9/30/2013 11:20:48 PM   
SuppressedSub


Posts: 2
Joined: 6/8/2013
Status: offline 		Hi all.

Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Punishment. - 9/30/2013 11:23:09 PM   
SuppressedSub


Posts: 2
Joined: 6/8/2013
Status: offline 		Wow... Is it obvious I've never posted before ? ;)

Ok so... I could use some help....

I have really screwed up. We've had the best weekend so far and I've messed it all up, I've forgotten my place and acted completely wrong. I need to send Sir a list of appropriate punishments from which he may choose one he deems fit to teach me a lesson. I don't have to and so would rather not go in to details but I have been disrespectful, angry and insolent. How can he teach me not to do this again? I would really appreciate as many suggestions as I can get. It has to be something that he can have me do myself as unfortunately he cannot physically punish me himself. I have until Wedneaday to get the suggestions to him.

Thanks in advance for your help. Xo

(in reply to SuppressedSub)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Punishment. - 10/1/2013 12:28:59 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline 		Having had to do something similar myself, I know this sucks. I also know that if we give you the answers, it entirely defeats the object of the punishment. It's supposed to suck.

You really have two questions here: What should the punishment be? and How can he teach me not to behave like this again?
Punishment - think up something you would really dislike, and write that down. I don't know you, so I don't know whether you'd be more unhappy being banned from eating chocolate for three months, or not going to the next party you have planned, or whatever.

Did he say it has to be physical? Seems unnecessarily limiting.

How can he teach you not to do it again?
Explain his standards very clearly, and have you explain them back in your own words to be sure they are understood. Talk about what are realistic rules that fit in with the rest of life. Talk about what you both need in the relationship. Most of it has to come from you though. Examine yourself. Why did you do it? Do you not respect his authority? Were you being deliberately hurtful - if so, why? Is this a personal failing of yours, or is the relationship not working? You need to figure out the problem, and then resolve to fix it and not repeat the offence. No amount of punishment will fix the problem if you skip the honest introspection. Ultimately, unless the lesson he wants to teach is 'I'm so terrified of him I won't risk disobedience ever again', punishments don't really teach lessons. Most of the change will come from you both being adults, owning your mistakes, discussing it honestly and both committing to doing better next time. Punishment might be used to underline the offence, as absolution, or whatever other reason, but punishment alone won't fix the underlying issue.

PS. I come from a punishment dynamic. Others think punishment under any circumstances are useless and/or indicative of a dysfunctional dynamic, so if I seem harsh, bear in mind I'm actually one of the most pro-punishment folks here.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to SuppressedSub)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Punishment. - 10/1/2013 12:41:00 AM   
DOM68005


Posts: 6069
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Nebraska
Status: offline 		Think also about what triggered the undesired behavior. Focus on that and how to be less sensitive to those triggers or find a way to reign them in..

AthenaSurrenders is right on track. it is a matter of perceptions by each of you.

One thing I did was to have my former sub who shaved as part of our discipline stop shaving for two weeks. The discomfort was a constant reminder. In a matter of a few days, she was calling begging for permission to shave. For her, it was far more viable than a serious fogging or corner time.
Another time the answer was to ignore her for a week. I'm not sure that was a good idea as it was hard on me as well, but the separation is only effective after a strong bond has been built.

Is that a functional option for you? I have no way of knowing.

< Message edited by DOM68005 -- 10/1/2013 12:55:40 AM >

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)
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RE: Punishment. - 10/1/2013 12:48:43 AM   
SunTzuSwe


Posts: 82
Joined: 4/25/2013
Status: offline 		Let's take a step back and look at the issue.
The objective is teaching you how not to repeat an unwanted behavior. As far I know behavioral science teaches a positive incentive encouraging a different behavior to be more effective than punishment. If opting for a punishment that are sure to deter you from ever doing it again it'll indeed have to be very severe since pain and discomfort can be endured to some extent if you feel it worth it. In your position i might opt for a different approach, do you know what went wrong? Do you know why you did what you did? What made you do it?What parameters need to shift in order to avoid doing it again? Imho the punishment is just a way of sealing the deal, kind of like ending the matter and moving on.
Is the objective having you live in fear of punishment or to inspire a more appreciated behavior?

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)
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RE: Punishment. - 10/1/2013 5:35:34 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuppressedSub
I don't have to and so would rather not go in to details but I have been disrespectful, angry and insolent.

This probably won't help you much but if I were him and this were my assessment then I'd release you without a moment's thought. If I was married to you, I'd divorce you also.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to SuppressedSub)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Punishment. - 10/1/2013 6:37:00 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuppressedSub
I don't have to and so would rather not go in to details but I have been disrespectful, angry and insolent.

This probably won't help you much but if I were him and this were my assessment then I'd release you without a moment's thought. If I was married to you, I'd divorce you also.



Truthfully this thought crossed my mind also, but then a few other things occurred to me.

Firstly, I was a total pain in the arse when I first started out, and we'd have missed out on something beautiful if he'd just walked away. The OP sounds very new to this.

Secondly, I wonder how much those words might be more of a stylistic choice than an objective account of events. By that I mean, I have heard many people talk in fairly dramatic terms about otherwise minor disagreements in a D/s context. It seems to feed into the whole drama of the transgression, the submissive demonstrating how bad and lowly they are while the dominant looks on coldly, the agonising punishment, then finally the emotional moment of absolution and forgiveness. I could be totally wrong, but again, the OP is new, the relationship seems to be new, and there is often an element of playing to those roles in newer d/s relationships - again, I've been guilty of this back when I was new. In other words, the actual offence may have been something minor as using a sharp tone of voice because she was stressed out over something, which is probably not divorce-worthy.

Thirdly (stop me if I got this wrong OP) I think this is on online-only relationship. Online only interactions can tend to be extremely emotionally intense because of the way they happen in a somewhat false environment separate from the distractions of real life. As such it's easy for more dramatic reactions and language to come into play that if the same problem arose in say, your house or mine, where we're together all the time, know each other well, and don't feel the need to act a certain way in order to prove which of us is dominant. Again, not a criticism of the OP, because *ding ding* I've been here too.

TL;DR: While I agree with Jeff in principle, I am not sure it applies to the OP's dynamic in the same way because of newness and/or online status.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Punishment. - 10/1/2013 7:51:13 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC


This probably won't help you much but if I were him and this were my assessment then I'd release you without a moment's thought. If I was married to you, I'd divorce you also.



Really Jeff? Divorce, with no discussion?

I wouldn't toss out a long term relationship over one incident, no matter how disrespectful. I would see it as a wake up call, and we'd have a come to Jesus type talk along the lines of basic things within the relationship have to change. Since I agree willful disrespect means the person has (consciously or not) decided not to submit.

Without more detail it's hard to know how to advise the OP.

Suppressed, what would your 'Master' think if he knew you were posting here looking for punishment ideas? Why doesn't your 'Master' know how to teach you how to behave?

Good dominance inspires submission and allows the sub to naturally find 'their place.' I don't think you have that.

And why can't he punish you himself? Is this online only?

_____________________________



(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Punishment. - 10/1/2013 7:54:17 AM   
TigressLily


Posts: 436
Status: offline
I did take a peek at both your profiles and just as I suspected, the underlying issue here concerning your disobedience & insubordination sounds to me like a jealous reaction on your part. You're obviously getting deeply attached to your already married Master and are resenting the circumstances you now find yourself tangled up in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuppressedSub

I have really screwed up. We've had the best weekend so far and I've messed it all up, I've forgotten my place and acted completely wrong....

I don't have to and so would rather not go in to details but I have been disrespectful, angry and insolent. How can he teach me not to do this again?...

It has to be something that he can have me do myself as unfortunately he cannot physically punish me himself.


Yes, your behavior warrants punishment. I am not a proponent of punishment - I'd much rather prefer funishment - but I do believe it's important to teach lessons in direct proportion to the offense in question. Neither of you will feel right until you have "atoned" for your transgressions. I'm assuming that you knew he was in a vanilla marriage when you became involved with him less than a year ago. You didn't provide any specifics, but I will also assume he did not deliberately provoke you since you didn't try to justify your misconduct.

If you believe that the withholding of privileges (that don't indirectly "punish" him in the process) would be an effective measure, then I would go that route for the time being since you say he cannot administer discipline in person, at least not in a timely manner. You are fortunate to have a lenient master who in his own words considers himself "very lucky" to have found you to fill "the void I've felt for so many years." If your master were more like JeffBC, he wouldn't have thought twice about "releas[ing] you without a moment's thought. If I was married to you, I'd divorce you also." (Obviously, with the latter not being an option in your case. But neither is he the type of Master who would be conducting an extra-marital affair in the first place.)

Keep in mind that no matter what ideas you come up with and put forward, they will ultimately be tantamount to putting a Band-Aid on a huge gash. You need to be completely honest with yourself and with your Master about your feelings. The more weekends you steal away with him and the closer you bond with one another, the more possessive you will become. Can you handle controlling your behavior, because it's a no-win situation. You either accept the fact that you cannot fully possess him or lay claim to him beyond sharing him with his wife, or else you reassess the situation in its entirety. Will it be detrimental to you in the long run? You are his sub, you aren't even his Mistress, yet you are probably acting out because you are his mistress in a traditional sense. What are you going to do if you become pregnant? Do you think your Frenchman will divorce his wife to marry you? Probably not. If you think you've been falling down the rabbit hole lately, you haven't seen anything yet.

Don't get me wrong, I am sympathetic towards you. I'm not the sort to stray, but jealousy is one of the few things I'm willing to make allowances for. Slightly. I won't tolerate disrespectful, angry and insolent behavior, and unless I was in an LTR, I'd just as soon get rid of you. If any of this was displayed in public or caused him any embarrassment, bump that up exponentially, as in zero tolerance.

_____________________________

* * * Not A Fetish/Kink Delivery System * * *

_____________________________

That Orbed Maiden with White Fire Layden
Whom Mortals Shall Call the Moon ~ Lord Byron
She Moves in Mysterious Ways . . . On Your Knees, Boy. ~ U2

(in reply to SuppressedSub)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Punishment. - 10/1/2013 8:13:52 AM   
SeekingTrinity


Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline 		~FRing it~

Personally I believe that the biggest part of correcting negative behavior is reflecting on why you screwed up and how you plan on fixing it in the future. Somehow I don't think approaching a group of strangers on the Internet to do the task you yourself were instructed to do is doing anything for you. It's not like you can go back to him and say "well Athena said you should do this, Jeff said you should do that, and CP said to do a bit of this mixed with some of that." You know what works for you, what doesn't work, and what learning atyle suits you best.

For me, Id be disappointed even more if my submissive handled things this way. Id have asked you to do this for YOU to reflect on it, not hit up a group of random strangers and tell me what they think. See what Im saying?

(in reply to TigressLily)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Punishment. - 10/1/2013 8:25:00 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		Oh...snap!
What the above poster said....... and if you are having fantasies about him divorcing her and marrying you, you would be well advised to end your relationship right now, before you are in too deep. This situation can come to no good end. I feel sorry for you. You deserve a full partnership.

(in reply to SeekingTrinity)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Punishment. - 10/1/2013 8:48:29 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Oh, he's married. Okay. Being involved with a married man is probably punishment enough.

_____________________________



(in reply to kiwisub12)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Punishment. - 10/1/2013 9:07:25 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		My first thought was: "Have you actually met this man in real life?"

Then I saw the married part. OP,the best advice I can give is this: He's already lying to the most important person in his life. He's already proven that he is not trustworthy and since you are not the most important person in his life, he won't hesitate to lie to you too.

Since WIITWD requires a great deal of trust, I'd seriously be reconsidering putting my life into the hands of someone who makes the decision that it's okay to deliberately risk hurting the people closest to him in order to get his kinky sex.


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Punishment. - 10/1/2013 9:31:52 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline 		In fairness to the OP, we don't know for sure that he's lying to his wife. They may have an agreement about him having an online sub. For me personally, that wouldn't be a big enough level of commitment to submit but maybe it is for her.

(Yes I know that's rarely true in these types of threads, but I like to give the benefit of the doubt)

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Punishment. - 10/1/2013 9:37:43 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		Very true. It's just the impression I get from reading both of their profiles.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Punishment. - 10/1/2013 9:59:34 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuppressedSub
I would really appreciate as many suggestions as I can get. It has to be something that he can have me do myself as unfortunately he cannot physically punish me himself.

A wise friend of mine once told me, "Polyamory works best when everyone has somebody they can call their own."

I think that's what you should do: get someone of your own. Not necessarily a dom, could be a vanilla boyfriend or your own sub, slave or pet. Until you do that, any "punishment" will be treating the symptom, not the underlying problem.

Good luck.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to SuppressedSub)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Punishment. - 10/1/2013 10:28:20 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		Why don't you try this learn from your perceived errors and try not to let them happen again. Yea I know some ppl like to inject drama into their lives. I'm just not one of them.

Yep it's really that simple. BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Punishment. - 10/1/2013 10:29:55 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		No contact between the two you for a week, give you time to think it out.

_____________________________

I am like a box of chocolates, you never know what variety you are going to get on any given day.

My crazy smells like jasmine, cloves and cat nip.

(in reply to SailingBum)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Punishment. - 10/1/2013 10:59:14 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		OP, no, you don't have to give the details. However, without knowing them or knowing you, all the question serves to do is ask the members of the forum to start throwing the darts at a random punishment dartboard. I would have to say that I doubt that is the purpose of having *you* spend the time and consideration on what punishment you would receive. The *only* reason I could see the person in charge wanting the person who made the infraction to have the ideas for the punishment would be self reflection and if that is the situation, I wouldn't be happy if the assignment was brought to a forum board so other people could do it for you, instead.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
This probably won't help you much but if I were him and this were my assessment then I'd release you without a moment's thought. If I was married to you, I'd divorce you also.


Really Jeff? Divorce, with no discussion?

I wouldn't toss out a long term relationship over one incident, no matter how disrespectful. I would see it as a wake up call, and we'd have a come to Jesus type talk along the lines of basic things within the relationship have to change. Since I agree willful disrespect means the person has (consciously or not) decided not to submit.

I'm going to skip the divorce part for obvious reasons. Personal opinion varies on which is more important. The dynamic or dropping the dynamic and just going to a vanilla relationship to keep the person in your life. Since My dynamics are not the primary relationship and the entire reason that I have them is for the D/s in the first place, My position is the former. In My opinion,if a person is not submitting, the dynamic is dead anyway.


quote:

Without more detail it's hard to know how to advise the OP.

Agreed and it is pointless to speculate. I do, however, believe there are such things as "one strike and you're out" infractions.


quote:

And why can't he punish you himself? Is this online only?

I'm not as kind as Althena, so I'll keep this opinion to Myself.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Punishment. - 10/1/2013 1:31:44 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
Really Jeff? Divorce, with no discussion? I wouldn't toss out a long term relationship over one incident, no matter how disrespectful.

Damnit, I knew I should have clarified that when I wrote it.

In general, I do not measure respect on the basis of surface stuff. For instance, showing some rebellion in the face of an unpleasant command is not "disrespectful" as I measure things. Nor is debating with me on some point. Hell, choosing not to submit at all is not disrespectful. The way I measure someone's respect of me (or my respect of someone else) is in the ability of one person to change the other person's opinion and it's not [normally] measured in an instant-to-instant fashion.

Insofar as your "come to jesus" moment, that's what happens before I come to the conclusion of "disrespectful, angry and insolent." You'll probably identify with this. The [actual] story goes like this...

Manager at a company picnic stands in line to get his and his wife's food. The wife says openly and loudly, 'So are you going to grow a set and cut the line or do we have to stand here like the masses?"

My response to that would certainly have been a "come to jesus" moment. I can easily imagine myself saying, "Be quiet and listen. Go get in the car without making a scene. Wait there quietly and patiently until I can extricate myself from this event. When I can, we are going home. When we get there we are going to have a very short discussion about the words "teamwork", "respect" and "divorce". If you choose not to comply I will get in the car myself immediately and the moment I get home I'll be calling a divorce attorney. Choose wisely."

Yes, for certain offenses I would divorce Carol out with zero or near-zero warning. It's just those offenses would not be the normal things associated with BDSM roles. Honestly, in the story above I'd be fully expecting to be calling a divorce attorney within the next hour. I'd be fine with that decision. The option I would have given that wife wasn't much of an option at all. A person who would do what I described above does not have the discipline or self-control to succeed at the bar I just set.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 20
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