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RE: List of places that could be kept open or functioni... - 10/3/2013 1:02:29 PM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I'm asking to keep this a list of places that could be open, and not to deratil with
blame (repubs dem) or debate on should they be open.

Just a list of places please.


I believe the websites I've listed are germane. Loss of one, in particular, detrimentally affects our business. People and businesses do rely on access to the information these sites provide. These sites do NOT need to be closed and could be left open without incurring additional cost to the government.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: List of places that could be kept open or functioni... - 10/3/2013 1:07:04 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		It is problematical, because a great many here say anything but that the fed helps business. Surely more accurate, timely, lower cost information is available from the private sector.



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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: List of places that could be kept open or functioni... - 10/3/2013 1:20:31 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I'm asking to keep this a list of places that could be open, and not to deratil with
blame (repubs dem) or debate on should they be open.

Just a list of places please.


I believe the websites I've listed are germane. Loss of one, in particular, detrimentally affects our business. People and businesses do rely on access to the information these sites provide. These sites do NOT need to be closed and could be left open without incurring additional cost to the government.


Right. I've no objections to any of the posts you mentioned Treasure.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: List of places that could be kept open or functioni... - 10/3/2013 1:21:43 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		And you have objections to mine because they are purely factual. Got it. Shoot the messenger.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: List of places that could be kept open or functioni... - 10/3/2013 1:22:57 PM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

It is problematical, because a great many here say anything but that the fed helps business. Surely more accurate, timely, lower cost information is available from the private sector.




What possible difference does it make what a great many say?

You're talking petulant retribution. I'm talking service and duty.

The information does not belong to Government, it belongs to the People. The People formed the Government and charged it with handling the business of the American people. They don't get to withhold it out of spite.

The information contained in those websites was collected at the cost of the American People, the expertise required to build those sites was bought by the American People, the domains and server space and bandwidth and every other thing required to place those sites online were already paid for by the American People.

I'm put in mind of the IT Tech who, upon being terminated, sabotages a company's network. He may have created and managed it, but it and his time were paid for by the company.

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: List of places that could be kept open or functioni... - 10/3/2013 1:24:51 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Fuck the government.

Tea Partiers already did that, and now the reverberations are fucking the rest of us.

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Yachtie)
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RE: List of places that could be kept open or functioni... - 10/3/2013 1:26:53 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I am not talking petulant retribution. I am all for it, I am told time and time again, small government, constitution, enumerated powers, fiscal conservancy, no interference in business.

But you haven't paid for those things, that is why there is a debt, they are borrowed and money is needed to keep them going, we are not communists. The car is out of gas.

Perhaps you should call your congressman if you aren't getting the interference you wanted.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/3/2013 1:30:33 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: List of places that could be kept open or functioni... - 10/3/2013 1:36:32 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

I believe the websites I've listed are germane. Loss of one, in particular, detrimentally affects our business. People and businesses do rely on access to the information these sites provide. These sites do NOT need to be closed and could be left open without incurring additional cost to the government.

Surely private enterprise will fill the gap swiftly and far more efficiently.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: List of places that could be kept open or functioni... - 10/3/2013 1:39:30 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Oh, it was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

This is the winter of our discontent.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: List of places that could be kept open or functioni... - 10/3/2013 1:41:06 PM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Fuck the government.

Tea Partiers already did that, and now the reverberations are fucking the rest of us.


So... petulant retribution it is.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: List of places that could be kept open or functioni... - 10/3/2013 1:41:47 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		FR

All my life, I've heard folks say we need a smaller government.

Now we have one, and nobody seems real excited about it.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: List of places that could be kept open or functioni... - 10/3/2013 1:44:01 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		The teabaggers having fucked us for lo these many years, are seeking petulant retribution for fucking us? Because what destructions they have wreaked to date are far more than petulant.

There may be more retribution yet to come from them. They still got lotsa shit they can fuck up more.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: List of places that could be kept open or functioni... - 10/3/2013 1:47:21 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

So... petulant retribution it is.

I'm not an expert on shutdown law or the Antideficiency Act, so I don't know what discretion agencies had about keeping their sites running. Nor can I read minds, so I'm reluctant to assign motives to people I've never met.


_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: List of places that could be kept open or functioni... - 10/3/2013 2:19:50 PM   
graceadieu


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From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

The FCC has completely shut down its website.

As well, so has the Library of Congress.

And the National Archive website.


They have to pay for hosting. That's not free.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: List of places that could be kept open or functioni... - 10/3/2013 2:22:03 PM   
graceadieu


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Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Not to mention closing Ford's Theatre (just about to launch "The Laramie Project") which is a non-profit organization run by a private board, but whose building is a historic site!

http://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/shut-down-fascism-in-the-smoky-mountains



I have Phydeux on "hidden", so I didn't see this. But I know a guy that works there. They get some private funding from the org, but a lot/most of the employees are Parks Service and have been furloughed.

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: List of places that could be kept open or functioni... - 10/3/2013 2:24:06 PM   
JeffBC


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Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
I'm put in mind of the IT Tech who, upon being terminated, sabotages a company's network. He may have created and managed it, but it and his time were paid for by the company.

As an IT Tech, the idea that a website will simply run itself seems pretty problematic. As I ponder it, I can't think of a single public facing system I've ever seen wherein this is true. What you COULD do is let it "run itself" until it imploded and then spend the money to fix it later on. If I were the manager in question I'd be shutting down non-essential systems and diverting resources where needed to essential ones.

to graceadieue's point about hosting, I suspect they host their own servers. The ISP contracts are probably not readily cancellable although they might be usage based (seems unlikely). I'd be looking at turning off servers though since power consumption is non-trivial.

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 10/3/2013 2:26:54 PM >

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
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(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: List of places that could be kept open or functioni... - 10/3/2013 2:29:33 PM   
Phydeaux


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Joined: 1/4/2004
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< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 10/3/2013 2:30:21 PM >

(in reply to graceadieu)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: List of places that could be kept open or functioni... - 10/3/2013 2:34:33 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		http://www.ntis.gov/services/webhosting.aspx

Yeah, you see the redundantly oxymoronics in that of the essential services the department of commerce provides, that hosting itself (cuz they got no money you see) is down the road on the list. Not the kinda contracts you are thinking of.


Oh, I see that you were against it, before you were for it. Nevertheless this will stand.


< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/3/2013 2:35:30 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: List of places that could be kept open or functioni... - 10/3/2013 3:18:46 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

The FCC has completely shut down its website.

As well, so has the Library of Congress.

And the National Archive website.


They have to pay for hosting. That's not free.


Hosting is typically paid for on a yearly basis. Besides that, they are still paying for hosting their nice little announcements.

But as Jeff points out, they likely run their own servers... and they still are running them so we get their nice little "shutdown" notices.


< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 10/3/2013 3:20:08 PM >

(in reply to graceadieu)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: List of places that could be kept open or functioni... - 10/3/2013 3:51:23 PM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
I'm put in mind of the IT Tech who, upon being terminated, sabotages a company's network. He may have created and managed it, but it and his time were paid for by the company.

As an IT Tech, the idea that a website will simply run itself seems pretty problematic. As I ponder it, I can't think of a single public facing system I've ever seen wherein this is true. What you COULD do is let it "run itself" until it imploded and then spend the money to fix it later on. If I were the manager in question I'd be shutting down non-essential systems and diverting resources where needed to essential ones.

to graceadieue's point about hosting, I suspect they host their own servers. The ISP contracts are probably not readily cancellable although they might be usage based (seems unlikely). I'd be looking at turning off servers though since power consumption is non-trivial.


That's a good point about the IT folks, a lot of whom may have been furloughed. I know that a lot of the initial design/development of government websites is done by contractors, but I don't know about the maintenance/IT work. That would make sense to do in-house. And if they do host their own servers, those are going to be in government buildings, right? Which would probably be closed, with nobody there to monitor them.

< Message edited by graceadieu -- 10/3/2013 3:52:52 PM >

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 40
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