The Government needs money, where to get it

The Government needs money, where to get it (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Raise taxes on the rich.

25% (14)

Raise taxes on the middle class

3% (2)

Raise taxes on everyone.

7% (4)

Stop buying jet engines, tanks no one wants

30% (17)

Sell 55,000 to 77,000 vacant properties it owns

32% (18)

Total Votes : 55

(last vote on : 10/4/2013 8:54:26 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

jlf1961 -> The Government needs money, where to get it (10/3/2013 10:20:45 AM)
The government needs money, needs to figure out a decent budget and get its act together. So what can the do to raise money and cut spending?

hlen5 -> RE: The Government needs money, where to get it (10/3/2013 10:22:02 AM)
Guess what I voted for.

mnottertail -> RE: The Government needs money, where to get it (10/3/2013 10:33:38 AM)
cant vote, not multiple choice.

eulero83 -> RE: The Government needs money, where to get it (10/3/2013 10:47:07 AM)
your governament? probably print them and try to set international policies to raise oil price.

hlen5 -> RE: The Government needs money, where to get it (10/3/2013 10:54:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail cant vote, not multiple choice. Then guess which selection I chose? [:'(][;)] Multiple options would be good here.

jlf1961 -> RE: The Government needs money, where to get it (10/3/2013 10:59:48 AM)
I fixed multiple selection thingiemajig. [image]local://upfiles/622970/444046BA72CE4EEFACFCEF02AD19B2B2.jpg[/image]

joether -> RE: The Government needs money, where to get it (10/3/2013 11:10:08 AM)
We don't need to raise taxes (i.e. creating new laws that set new tax types). We just remove the Bush era tax cuts that have been straggling this nation for twelve years. The deficit started shortly after former President G. W. Bush's administration reversed the surplus Republicans had agreed with former President W. J. Clinton back in the late '90s. Every year, since about 2001 when a series of tax cuts took place, this country has always had a deficit. Republicans desired to 'starve the beast' when they found they couldn't turn Congress into a totalitarian regime with them at the helm. They have tried all sorts of tactics and gimmicks to manipulate and hide their true motives from the good citizens of the nation. They wanted to kill the Democrat's sacred cow using all sorts of 'parliamentary processes' while trying to increase the funding on their sacred cow. They even used two wars to keep America's attention of the domestic side of our government rather successfully. Something about 'massive stockpiles' of 'weapons of mass destruction'. The idea the President had with the Bush era tax cuts was to only allow those making $250K+/year to receive the tax. That would have just about evened out the budget with about $100 Billion or so in budget cuts. So yes, right now, we are suffering, the government is in semi- shutdown status, millions of people are now unemployed; because Republicans are protecting 1.42% of the population's tax rate (that's less than 2% of the population of the USA). And conservatives, whom are no were in the same ballpark as the rich, defend this concept (and they wonder why we shake our heads). You do know that President Obama would have been effected by this tax rate change, right? He does make like $700K/year not just from his day job, but from book deals and other honest forms of income (i.e. investments).

joether -> RE: The Government needs money, where to get it (10/3/2013 11:12:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 I fixed multiple selection thingiemajig. [image]local://upfiles/622970/444046BA72CE4EEFACFCEF02AD19B2B2.jpg[/image] First start with all the Republicans. My Senator from Massachusetts is actually doing her job since getting to office a few months ago. Soft spoken, intelligent, passionate, honest, educated, and wise all in one package. There is not a single Republican in office right now that is her equal!

DesideriScuri -> RE: The Government needs money, where to get it (10/3/2013 11:33:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 The government needs money, needs to figure out a decent budget and get its act together. So what can the do to raise money and cut spending? We do need to raise taxes (I recommend closing all loopholes but leaving rates where they are). We also need to stop spending money on non-essential shit. Sell property and stop buying stuff we don't want or need. This video is from 2010, so the specific numbers will likely be off a bit, but, it's easy to understand the principle of the matter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xezWd7VU2Ug

DesideriScuri -> RE: The Government needs money, where to get it (10/3/2013 11:57:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether The idea the President had with the Bush era tax cuts was to only allow those making $250K+/year to receive the tax. That would have just about evened out the budget with about $100 Billion or so in budget cuts. So yes, right now, we are suffering, the government is in semi- shutdown status, millions of people are now unemployed; because Republicans are protecting 1.42% of the population's tax rate (that's less than 2% of the population of the USA). And conservatives, whom are no were in the same ballpark as the rich, defend this concept (and they wonder why we shake our heads). You do know that President Obama would have been effected by this tax rate change, right? He does make like $700K/year not just from his day job, but from book deals and other honest forms of income (i.e. investments). The budget deficit for 2012 was, how much? According to the OMB, $1.087T. How much do the Bush tax cuts "for the rich" not bring in? http://www.offthechartsblog.org/cbo-ending-high-income-tax-cuts-would-save-almost-1-trillion/ Almost a $1T ($950B, to be more precise). Oh. That's over the next decade. [image]http://www.offthechartsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/8-24-12bud.jpg[/image] In 2022, the year with the highest "savings" from not extending the cuts was only $155B. Even if we take that $155B number and pretend that's the amount every year, how is that going to "even out our budget with about $100 Billion or so in budget cuts?" $1T - $155B = $845B. $845 /= "about $100B or so" Close all loopholes. Slash spending. Across the board. Defense and non-defense. If it doesn't support itself, it gets cut. If revenues are coming for a program, those revenues are required to stay in that program. Nowhere else. That will right the SSI and Medicare ship pronto. Defense will be fine (especially if we stop being World Cop). The world economy might go back into recession, but, personally, I'd much rather right our ship and go through another recession, than continue the horseshit we have been doing for 10+ years and face a much worse consequence eventually. Because, there is going to be an eventually. ETA: Forgot a couple more links... http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-07-19/business/35488195_1_tax-cuts-top-two-tax-brackets-republican-measure http://www.foreffectivegov.org/files/budget/Revenue/BushTaxCuts.pdf http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/24/bush-era-tax-cuts-revenue-expire_n_1828657.html (this is what led me to the article cited above)

joether -> RE: The Government needs money, where to get it (10/3/2013 12:53:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: joether The idea the President had with the Bush era tax cuts was to only allow those making $250K+/year to receive the tax. That would have just about evened out the budget with about $100 Billion or so in budget cuts. So yes, right now, we are suffering, the government is in semi- shutdown status, millions of people are now unemployed; because Republicans are protecting 1.42% of the population's tax rate (that's less than 2% of the population of the USA). And conservatives, whom are no were in the same ballpark as the rich, defend this concept (and they wonder why we shake our heads). You do know that President Obama would have been effected by this tax rate change, right? He does make like $700K/year not just from his day job, but from book deals and other honest forms of income (i.e. investments). The budget deficit for 2012 was, how much? According to the OMB, $1.087T. How much do the Bush tax cuts "for the rich" not bring in? http://www.offthechartsblog.org/cbo-ending-high-income-tax-cuts-would-save-almost-1-trillion/ Almost a $1T ($950B, to be more precise). Oh. That's over the next decade. You did notice this chart shows 'future projections' based on available data at the time (which is based on data from two years previous)? And assumes nothing major happens. That's a fair argument; no one can predict the future with any real accuracy. Saving a $100 Billion/year is not a good idea to you? That seems rather odd coming from you..... quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri In 2022, the year with the highest "savings" from not extending the cuts was only $155B. Even if we take that $155B number and pretend that's the amount every year, how is that going to "even out our budget with about $100 Billion or so in budget cuts?" $1T - $155B = $845B. $845 /= "about $100B or so" Your making a prediction here of an event nine years into the future? You cant even display the winning Powerball numbers for Saturday's drawing; why should I believe this material is accurate? quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Close all loopholes. Slash spending. Across the board. Defense and non-defense. If it doesn't support itself, it gets cut. If revenues are coming for a program, those revenues are required to stay in that program. Nowhere else. You cant even name the loopholes or how they are loopholes. Go look up on several sites, and post them here (that's the current conservative tactic). The point I'm making here, is '....close the loopholes....' is nothing more than a buzz word or rhetoric phrasing. It really doesn't help the situation. Why? Many of those loopholes were created with the middle and poor class in mind. However, the sort of people that know about the loopholes are the very rich (because they can afford a full time CPA). Getting rid of the evil loopholes negatively effects the two economic classes they were meant to help. Does that sound like a wise action to you? There are some loopholes specific for those making over $250K/year. They aren't on any conservative websites, so don't bother looking there. That should raise a red flag in your mind. Why would conservative sites omit those loopholes that benefit the super rich? I can understand the ones that have a financial stake in not making those loopholes known, but why not the really crazy conservative sites? Second issue... Cutting budget spending is not what most people understand it to be. Its like they feel the money goes into a black hole and is never seen nor accounted. Yet the grand majority of the money is used (the remaindered is stored for the next budgetary year if there is a shortfall). Its used to create and maintain US jobs. The majority of the Defense Budget does NOT go towards US Military personnel; but towards defense contractors. That's been dubbed 'middle class welfare' for a few decades. Same thing exists in healthcare. Most of the money goes to paying professional level jobs (those that make the drugs and equipment, doctors, nurses, support, administration, legal). What do those in both the defense and health care professionals who get government money spend their disposable dollars on? This concept is one most people do not understand. Dropping the budget by a small amount (say $70-150 Billion) will have a small negative effect on the whole economy (and a decent size for the industry(s) affected). Dropping the budget as conservatives demand, would be absolutely insane! Remember those professional jobs that people have? They pay taxes. Without a job, they don't pay taxes. What happens to the revenue generated? It doesn't generate. What happens? A Deficit is created. What happen in 2007? A huge number of professionals lost their jobs. What did the country experience? A faster rate of deficit being generated. Its all very mathematical if one takes an objective look at things. The White House and Congress did not contribute to the problem directly in 2009 (indirectly one could make an argument on). You don't hear this understanding on conservative sites, do you, DS? Have you ever asked why? No! Because knowing the knowledge would thus bring up the question; not knowing would not!

Phydeaux -> RE: The Government needs money, where to get it (10/3/2013 1:12:04 PM)
We all agree the government pays people. Thats a given and a duh. Unfortunately, the size of government has grown past what the private economy can support. Additionally the wages of the employees in government have grown in excess of what similar workers in the private sector. Fundamentally, just like greece is learning, regardless of all the wonderful things we are doing with other peoples money, you cannot continue to deficit finance indefinitely. Sooner or later, you have to pay the piper. We need to get off this insane debt spending. Finally, everyone knows there is no such thing as a free lunch. When we fund one government job, the taxes that were forcibly extracted from taxpayers means that MORE than one private sector job was destroyed. In the private sector, the founders realized that private individuals do not have the ability to compel; only governments under force of law have the ability to do that. So, when you are buying a blue tooth radio for $35 - the manufacturer thinks he can make a profit doing that, and the buyer wants the radio more than he wants the $35. Thats a free and fair exchange, both sides benefit. Now, the government 'takes' taxes. You have no meaninful ability to resist. That is compelled. The government may spend that money on whatever useless shit the government decides to spend it on. The government, rife with cronism and waste - can pay a person tens of thousands of dollars not to farm - when the person doesn't even own a farm. (True by the way). Those on the right believe the government is funding all sorts of crap it doesn't need to fund. Whether its tanks the military doesnt want, ethanol the country doesn't need, or democratic activists (ACORN) we think that before you go raising taxes - lets give a comprehensive review to all the stupidity we currently fund - and get rid of it.

mnottertail -> RE: The Government needs money, where to get it (10/3/2013 1:15:59 PM)
Finally, everyone knows there is no such thing as a free lunch. (non-sequitur) When we fund one government job, the taxes that were forcibly extracted from taxpayers means that MORE than one private sector job was destroyed. (tacit premise, if the government didnt have so many contractors, and employees, the private sector would create these wonderful living wage jobs). Walmart puts the lie to that ignorant asswipe and the actual unemployed and underemployed puts the further lie to that cretinous horseshit. What are gonna be the unemployment figures if the shutdown continues for 30 days? Private sector is going to shed jobs like a teabagger sheds reason and intellect.

RottenJohnny -> RE: The Government needs money, where to get it (10/3/2013 2:55:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 The government needs money, needs to figure out a decent budget and get its act together. So what can the do to raise money and cut spending? Forfeit their control over everything but foreign diplomacy and the military, let the states handle everything else independently, and lower my taxes accordingly. That would be a good start in my book.

mnottertail -> RE: The Government needs money, where to get it (10/3/2013 2:59:59 PM)
I dont see what state you are from with a hidden profile, but my bets are that not only would it raise your taxes accordingly, it would raise them devastatingly.

lovmuffin -> RE: The Government needs money, where to get it (10/3/2013 3:30:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail What are gonna be the unemployment figures if the shutdown continues for 30 days? Private sector is going to shed jobs like a teabagger sheds reason and intellect. That's good to know unemployment wont be negatively affected.

RottenJohnny -> RE: The Government needs money, where to get it (10/3/2013 4:02:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I dont see what state you are from with a hidden profile, but my bets are that not only would it raise your taxes accordingly, it would raise them devastatingly. I live in Michigan. But I'd rather pay higher state taxes if it reduced my federal taxes. I don't expect everyone to agree with me but it seems that every time we ask the federal government to handle one of our personal problems all we do is put more middle men between ourselves and a real solution to that problem. I don't see how that can ever be anything but more inefficient and costly. I'm simply an advocate of pushing the decision making and money spending power as close to the local level as possible. That's where our voices are more likely to be heard and where the decision makers are more likely to be living in our own neighborhoods.

slavekate80 -> RE: The Government needs money, where to get it (10/3/2013 6:33:11 PM)
A good first step would be to eliminate income tax write-offs except for deducting other taxes you paid that year and some charitable donations. That goes for people and corporations. This not only brings in more tax money without creating new taxes or raising existing ones directly, but saves a little through shrinking the IRS. It could be phased in over a few years, shutting down parts of the ridiculous tax code each year until it fits on one page with an appendix of deductible taxes and donations a few more pages long.

TheHeretic -> RE: The Government needs money, where to get it (10/3/2013 6:37:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 I fixed multiple selection thingiemajig. [image]local://upfiles/622970/444046BA72CE4EEFACFCEF02AD19B2B2.jpg[/image] So chuck the Constitution and give the President dictatorial authority then? I'll vote "fuck that."

TheHeretic -> RE: The Government needs money, where to get it (10/3/2013 6:41:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 So what can the do to raise money and cut spending? We could bring a nice little bit into the coffers, and save a lot more than that, by ending the ridiculous War on Drugs. Side benefit would be pulling the ammunition and new guns money right out of the pockets of the inner-city gang shitheads who provide so many tragedies and statistics for the gunophobes to exploit.

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