Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage

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ControlledSlave -> Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 3:13:33 PM)
Hello everyone. I would appreciate some advice or feedback about my situation. I cannot describe it in its entirety, so if there is anything you have a question about, feel free to ask. I have had interests in bdsm for many years. I have also been married for many years. My relationship is "vanilla" - great sex, and I am monogamous. I have never done anything sexual in bdsm play, at least in terms of fluid exchange, anal, worship, etc. I woujld consider myself somewhat experienced with bdsm scenes, but I am getting more into the idea of being a slave to a domme. I am trying it online right now. My wife thinks that bdsm is weird, and that people who engage in it are weird. She thinks that my pursuit of it means that I don't love her, or that our relationship is invalid in some way. I was pretty shocked to hear this because I am a loving husband and father who gives of himself tremendously. Of course by default. her claim means that I am weird! I have tried a number of times to talk with her about it. Recently she brought it up because she suspected me of how much time I am online (I am serving someone online right now - not in person). I told her that I have been talking to people about bdsm and am trying to learn more about it. It's part of me, I told her, and I want to engage in it. I tried telling her that people from all walks of life are engaged in it. Doctors, lawyers, PhDs...you name it. "It's sexual" she says. She said I am trying to put a Bill Clinton type definition on bdsm activities. I told her its about temporary power exchange and spanking - that's my thing. The "problem" I am having with this is that in my view of marriage, you support one another's interests and needs. But I am in a situation where my wife says she will not do bdsm, she doesn't want me talkting to others about bdsm, and she doesn't want me doing bdsm. I feel like I have been backed into a corner. I think of myself as submissive, but I also think I am tiring of being denied who I really am. I think I should put my foot down and say that I am going to do this, and then deal with the consequences, but I worry about the effects this will have on my family. I have three teenagers. Advice?

SusanofO -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 3:20:40 PM)
I could perhaps write a small tome on this (but am finally trying to put that dog to sleep so will not dwell on it elsewhere). But since you asked....my advice (what little I have) is: Start out slow, like spanking - I mean - haven't even a lot of people who are not into "kink" heard of spanking? It's not exactly hardcore kinky stuff. Reassure her you do really care - about her, not just getting your kink hunger fed. Maybe see a kink friendly therapist together? Assure her at least 10% of the world has tried (or thought about trying) this? Explain you are just wanting to "spice things up" (this may not be completely honest if you are planning on going all kinky and never vanilla again, but do you really know if that's the case right now)....? Worst case (but maybe best for you) is if you find someone else who will satisfy your needs (but I don't want to get into a discussion about polyamory). I do realize, if it's any consolation, how frustrating this situation can become. Hang in there. Maybe offer to do vanilla a few nights inter-mixed with light bdsm on other nights? Good luck. - Susan

ControlledSlave -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 3:27:43 PM)
Susan: Thank you for your response and advice. She is never going to spank me, believe me. Hurting someone isn't something that she can do. I respect that. But I hope I don't have to live my life without it. ControlledSlave

LTRsubNW -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 3:32:58 PM)
http://www.aroundherfinger.com/ Check it out. I'm confident it wouldn't have helped my marriage years ago...but it's a site regarding this very topic, written in a way to not be offensive or frightening to women. Most vanilla women see this topic as incredibly frightening, disruptive to the norm, etc. Frankly, it's my opinion that if more women embraced a dominant household (where the man see's himself as submissive, in any form or level), both parties would revel in enjoyment, smile a lot more and...I do believe that many women who find this lifestyle and or kink, however one views it, currently offensive, would wake up 3, 6 and 12 months later...indeed a lifetime for some and say ... "WTF was I THINKING???? This is some good shit!!!!" Unfortunately, my opinions don't mark the worlds preferences. Nevertheless...I think you'll find some helpful information on that site.

SusanofO -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 3:34:14 PM)
Someone else on another thread related to this the other day posted advice about this kind of situation from some advice-giver person, who said something akin to: "It's fine for someone to demand you be faithful. But if they're never going to give you any sex (and that can be transcribed to also mean sex the way you'd prefer to have it), then they better get used to the idea that means regular cuckolding for them" (the advice was aimed at a female whose signifcant other was with-holding sex altogether). But it does translate to this situation (and I am not one to go out on a limb or try to help ruin someone's marriage - and am not suggesting this is the only option. Everyone needs to find their own solution). In my case, that is what I finally ended up resorting to - I didn't feel particularly honorable about doing it at the time - but I did feel justified and did it anyway. - Susan

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 3:45:03 PM)
Check out the book "When someone you love is kinky" Of course the fact that you are cheating on your wife with some mistress isn't going to help.

LTRsubNW -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 3:45:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO then they better get used to the idea that means regular cuckolding for them" Now, personally...as a male sub who thinks a cuckolding lifestyle is absolute heaven....I could get used to that :)

LokisBrat -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 4:05:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Of course the fact that you are cheating on your wife with some mistress isn't going to help. This is my thought also. I would definatly advise sitting down and being open and honest. The pursuit of happiness can sometimes lead a married couple down separate paths, but this should be done with the other's consent. If it is your marriage and family that you are concerned about, what do you think will happen when she finds out about your on-line affair? Would it not be more honorable to openly discuss alternative solutions? LOKI

MrrPete -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 4:36:44 PM)
Are you ready to be out in the open? How would it effect your teenagers if they knew of daddy's kink? That could happen with a custody battle. Are you ready to give up everyting you've built together with your wife and kids? Are you that selfish? At least wait until you have an empty nest before you consider parting. Do what you can to serve your wife. Put you family first

jonathan -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 4:59:47 PM)
ControlledSlave, i was there a couple of times, in the early 1980's, and it didn't work, no matter how committed we were and how hard i tried. That's why i began making it a condition up front. i was lucky i found myself before finding Her. i'm pleased to see SusanofO weigh in on this, a thoughtful person i tend to agree with. If you can't turn Her by being a completely attentive and compliant subhusband, slowly over time, you may be stuck. Best of luck & wishes, i hope you can keep it together without any hurts. She definitely is confused about the meaning of it all. Maybe one of Gloria Brame's books or sneaking in a link to Her site? Reading about Gloria's adventures might enlighten Her.

crouchingtigress -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 5:34:37 PM)
hey cs, sorry you feel likeyour back is up against the wall. One thing i would really give some thought to, is something dan savage says in his colum, withholding sex is a form of emotional abuse, and i think it can translate here...some may flame me if they want, but this is what i really believe, i am with you i think in a marrige you strive to meet your partners needs or you alow them to meet them on thier own. i think she is being selfish, but i dont think you are doing good things for/to the partnership either with your deception and weak willedness. it is my opinion that you need to tell her straight up that this a crossroads for you, that you know it may hurt the family ect, but you cant live a whole life unfufilled just to keep a status quo. and there will be anger and tears, and all of the emotions that people have on both sides, but do you really have any other choice? is being unfufilled for the rest of your life something you are willing to commit to? is being with a partner the refuses to at least work through issues and find solutions what you want? and is staying in an unhappy marrige for the kids really good for them? does it teach them the type of values you would want for them as they begin to find partners? these are big questions only you can answer. do some soul searching, find out what is at the core of your desire to become a slave, there are so many reasons not all of them healthy and then go talk to someone about it...that step will lead you to another and so on and so forth.... but serving an online Domme, well that is not really a solution is it?

SusanofO -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 5:45:56 PM)
Don't get me started. Really. I find it sad (and I empathize w/you) that your wife cannot understand this - I wonder if it has occurred to her that doesn't help the situation resolve, although she does have a right to state her side of things. You haven't heard true quality whining until you've heard my whining on this topic. I will, in the name of saving time, give you my Bottom Line on this (forgive me, I was a business major in school): I would honestly tell her how not being able to pursue this side of yourself makes you feel, and ask for her help. Ask her this: "What would you do if you were me"? I'd be interested to know the answer to that. Tell her you are not trying to break up or destroy your marriage and that you do care about her. Why is she against it ?- why can't she give it a try? -isn't marriage about "give and take"? You are not a "pervert". When all else fails, no matter how "dishonorable" it feels or looks, who can really blame you if you "cheated"? I cheated. Eventually I felt guilty (but it took about a year). Or, declare yourself a polyamorist. There is nothing "wrong" with polyamory - it is a different approach to intimate relationships and really seems to work for many, I've seen from reading these boards, (it also seems like it can require much dedication, but nobody gets a "free ride" I guess - unless they are simply looking for "-ck buddies, which is okay too I suppose). I am not trying to sway you - just saying there are options out there you can contemplate. Good luck. -Susan

diamonddreamlove -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 5:51:58 PM)
tigress i agree with most that you said. I might add that my husband is vanilla and thought wow wifey has gone nuts when i first approached him with the idea of going on line. I then had his read some books and he agreed i could go online as long as r/t did not happen. That was a year ago. He is still vanilla will not consider participating but is now allowing me r/t. By the same token i must allow him the right to vanilla relationships outside our marriage and we have now agreed to an open marriage. A few months back i was at the crossroad of going forward without his permission, seeking his permission for r/t and possibly facing a divorce. I chose to go forward and ask knowing that divorce was a possiblity and i even consulted an attorney. My husband tells me i am to valuable to lose and that if it will make me happy to follow my "hobby/interests" i may do so as long as i am safe. He went with me to purchase condoms and other items he felt as a medical professional i should have to keep me safe. Yes it is working, i just set him up on yahoo with a profile for vanilla realtionships and he is thrilled. Guess it works both ways. Perhaps we play with fire but if that is what has to happen to feel alive again and relish the life i have then so be it. I am grateful to my vanilla husband and our relationship has been becoming stronger as weird as that may seem. Hope you can talk to your wife, timing is very important and read as much as you can before you approach her again. I also recommend that you admit to the online submission but not because i call it cheating. I think it is just honesty with the woman that you have spent a lot of years with and she has a right to know perhaps not to understand but to know. Is a hard spot you are in and i feel for you very much. Best wishes.

ControlledSlave -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 6:08:23 PM)
LTRSubNW: Thank you for that url - it looks like a useful site. To some extent I am already subservient to my wife and kids. Gosh I work very hard around the house. I do pretty much everything for them, far more than they ask, really. I just don't live with a domme. CS

ControlledSlave -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 6:13:18 PM)
Lucky: I accept that other will judge what I am doing as cheating, but I think that an online situation is a good, safe first step for me. Without this experience, I might forge ahead with some half-baked plan about what it means to be a slave without any experience at all. It's not the same as realtime, and I cannot make a 100% commitment toi it, but I can learn something about myself. Thank you for sharing your opinion. I wish you well. CS

ControlledSlave -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 6:17:20 PM)
Mr. Pete: Very good points and questions, all of which have gone through my mind. It is nice to hear them echoed by someone else. Thank you. Yes, I can wait five more years for an empty nest, and who knows what my thinking will be at that time. I am a patient person. I just don't want to be thought of as a freak. My wife thinks I don't love her because I want to see a domme. That is rather depressing to me. It's like saying that nothing I do matters unless it is exactly what she wants me to do. I like control, but I don't like shame or humiliation.

ControlledSlave -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 6:20:06 PM)
Loki: Thank you for your thoughts. I do want to sit down with her. It was Wednesday evening when we last talked about this. She walked out of the room during the conversation. I want to pick it up again, but thought I should get some advice first. CS

ControlledSlave -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 7:34:31 PM)
Crouchingtigress: I really appreciate your thoughts. Thank you for sharing. Yes, you are very correct - I am being deceptive, and I am weakwilled. Having someone you love very much tell you that you are weird for being kinky will make you a little gun shy. Asking for her honest opinion is a little like wanting to lean into a left hook - I am a more than a little gunshy after all these years. I suppose I have subjugated my needs for a long time and it was only in the last year that I began to feel like I wasn't being true to myself. Chances are very good that I won't upset the apple cart. But I will begin to question my love for her. CS

crouchingtigress -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 7:58:19 PM)
out of everything that she needs to know i think that is the the most important... quote: ORIGINAL: ControlledSlave. Chances are very good that I won't upset the apple cart. But I will begin to question my love for her. CS

CrappyDom -> RE: Frustration about lack of bdsm in marriage (7/1/2006 8:10:31 PM)
I would sit down with her and have her write up what she things S&M is and you write down what it is to you. Reading those things to each other could be quite enlightening. While I would not lie, if some of your desires (as opposed to real needs) are a bit out there, tone them down. Focus on the things that you could see doing with her or her doing to you. I am sure she thinks what we do is extreme and much of it is quite tame it is just that we discuss and enhance the power dynamics that most people ignore. The other thing I would suggest is you run your little essay by someone who has vastly more experience, there are a few here I would recomend, heck I would be willing to review it and make sure what you think you want actually goes on outside of chatrooms. The point of all of this is to find out if there is common ground, see where her issues are and if you can address them or calm her fears. If things are as good as you say, relationships that good are damn few and far between, just look at the threads here. Finding a great domme is going to require you do a LOT of work, wouldn't it be cool if you could just do that work at home?

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