Can't be Mother Nature (Full Version)

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Yachtie -> Can't be Mother Nature (10/4/2013 6:31:08 AM)

Has to be because of our Co2 output. I mean, shit! We humans supposedly cause everything else. Ohhhhh, maybe it's the guns! I just cannot see it as Gaia venting her wrath. So many worship her.


Right now, the ground underneath Yellowstone National Park is rising at a record rate. In fact, it is rising at the rate of about three inches per year. The reason why this is such a concern is because underneath the park sits the Yellowstone supervolcano – the largest volcano in North America. Scientists tell us that it is inevitable that it will erupt again one day, and when it does the devastation will be almost unimaginable. A full-blown eruption of the Yellowstone supervolcano would dump a 10 foot deep layer of volcanic ash up to 1,000 miles away, and it would render much of the United States uninhabitable. When most Americans think of Yellowstone, they tend to conjure up images of Yogi Bear and “Old Faithful”, but the truth is that sleeping underneath Yellowstone is a volcanic beast that could destroy our nation in a single day and now that beast is starting to wake up.




Marc2b -> RE: Can't be Mother Nature (10/4/2013 6:34:53 AM)

A false equivalency is not an argument. Being snide about a false equivalency does not strengthen the argument.




DarkSteven -> RE: Can't be Mother Nature (10/4/2013 6:37:18 AM)

Yachtie, please give a link. I'd like to read the full article.




Yachtie -> RE: Can't be Mother Nature (10/4/2013 6:39:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Yachtie, please give a link. I'd like to read the full article.



Click on "read more".

Oh hell, here -

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/yellowstone-supervolcano-alert-the-most-dangerous-volcano-in-america-is-roaring-to-life




Yachtie -> RE: Can't be Mother Nature (10/4/2013 6:41:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

A false equivalency is not an argument. Being snide about a false equivalency does not strengthen the argument.



Woosh![8D]




mnottertail -> RE: Can't be Mother Nature (10/4/2013 6:54:01 AM)

Ah, the DailyMail. Top drawer asswipe; that. And the regurgitator with additional wrapped spin:

Michael T. Snyder is a fundamentalist Christian crank who has started numerous blogs as a testament to his raging insane belief that the world is about to end. He started with The Economic Collapse Blog in 2007, with constant articles stating how the world is going to hell every single day since the meltdown started in 2007. It seems as though Snyder blames the government for every ill in the world, because without it everything would be great.

Like most doom-sayers, it doesn't seem to faze Snyder one bit that every one of his past predictions of economic collapse were dead wrong. This horrendous track record would cause most people to reevaluate their beliefs in the effort to one day be right. Yet, he simply refuses to even address or acknowledge that he has been wrong thousands of times, especially if you count each numbered item of his massive lists. He seems to have explosive diarrhea of the mind that no amount of logic can slow or stop.


So, we will wait upon events. I think it signals the second coming of christ, howz about youse?




Marc2b -> RE: Can't be Mother Nature (10/4/2013 7:14:12 AM)

quote:


Woosh![8D]



Continued snideness (I'm presuming that the "Woosh!" means you think your "argument" went over my head) still fails to strengthen your argument. So the Yellowstone super-volcano is not caused by human activity... so what? What does that have to do with the fact that climate change is affected by human activity? The fact that some aspects of nature are not affected by humanity does not mean that others aren't. The tides are not caused by human activity... does this mean we should dismiss human activity as a cause of toxic algae blooms? Of course not. You are not making an argument against human induced climate change. You are simply being snide either for the sake of being snide and/or to avoid the fact that you do not posses a valid argument against human caused climate change.




Yachtie -> RE: Can't be Mother Nature (10/4/2013 7:29:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Ah, the DailyMail. Top drawer asswipe; that. And the regurgitator with additional wrapped spin:

Michael T. Snyder is a fundamentalist Christian crank who has started numerous blogs as a testament to his raging insane belief that the world is about to end. He started with The Economic Collapse Blog in 2007, with constant articles stating how the world is going to hell every single day since the meltdown started in 2007. It seems as though Snyder blames the government for every ill in the world, because without it everything would be great.

Like most doom-sayers, it doesn't seem to faze Snyder one bit that every one of his past predictions of economic collapse were dead wrong. This horrendous track record would cause most people to reevaluate their beliefs in the effort to one day be right. Yet, he simply refuses to even address or acknowledge that he has been wrong thousands of times, especially if you count each numbered item of his massive lists. He seems to have explosive diarrhea of the mind that no amount of logic can slow or stop.


So, we will wait upon events. I think it signals the second coming of christ, howz about youse?



I find this most interesting. Snyder uses the available data, as he sees it, and makes predictions. Now, I agree that ~setting dates is putting one's head in the bear trap, but back in the late 60s, or was it in the 70s, science was saying we were heading into an ice age. I saw it on the cover of TIME.

Now it's possible Snyder's predictive time frame is not properly modeled, but the conclusions correct but for the time frame.
It's also possible he's entirely full of shit. I'm not one to hang my hat on that he absolutely is. Those who wish to, feel free.

But if, as MN says, I think it signals the second coming of christ, howz about youse? , how would his prediction be in the face of such an event actually happening, as opposed to those who scoff at the mere notion such even be contemplated, proclaiming such chance is zero?

But what's interesting is the quoted as opposed to such as ~AGW and all the postings here at P&R, diverse as they are.

Snyder has not evidently changed his views, only been predictably wrong in his time frames (and he may yet prove correct), unlike science (and even some economists) which has been both predictable wrong in time frames and even changes positions. We're not going to freeze, we're going to boil.


Yet, he simply refuses to even address or acknowledge that he has been wrong thousands of times

And science never has been? What's so damn humorous is that the science fetishists acknowledge science's continuous correction of error.


Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
- Robert Frost




mnottertail -> RE: Can't be Mother Nature (10/4/2013 7:33:48 AM)

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/01/110119-yellowstone-park-supervolcano-eruption-magma-science/


Yeah, so we will go with the full of shit from the Mail on down to the present and fortuitous today. As well as the hysterical commentary in the OP which is pretty foolish asswipe.

More likely that it is in the Ogalalla aquifer, and the fracking causing pressures to build and magma to coagulate (and of course the oil that was dumped in the river by the pipeline) causing swelling by pressure into the vacuum which used to be tamped down somewhat by plentiful water.

KISS principle.





Yachtie -> RE: Can't be Mother Nature (10/4/2013 7:35:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:


Woosh![8D]



Continued snideness (I'm presuming that the "Woosh!" means you think your "argument" went over my head) still fails to strengthen your argument. So the Yellowstone super-volcano is not caused by human activity... so what? What does that have to do with the fact that climate change is affected by human activity? The fact that some aspects of nature are not affected by humanity does not mean that others aren't. The tides are not caused by human activity... does this mean we should dismiss human activity as a cause of toxic algae blooms? Of course not. You are not making an argument against human induced climate change. You are simply being snide either for the sake of being snide and/or to avoid the fact that you do not posses a valid argument against human caused climate change.


What argument???? Is your punk-out meter broken?[8|]




leonine -> RE: Can't be Mother Nature (10/4/2013 7:49:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Ah, the DailyMail. Top drawer asswipe; that. And the regurgitator with additional wrapped spin:

Michael T. Snyder is a fundamentalist Christian crank who has started numerous blogs as a testament to his raging insane belief that the world is about to end. He started with The Economic Collapse Blog in 2007, with constant articles stating how the world is going to hell every single day since the meltdown started in 2007. It seems as though Snyder blames the government for every ill in the world, because without it everything would be great.

Like most doom-sayers, it doesn't seem to faze Snyder one bit that every one of his past predictions of economic collapse were dead wrong. This horrendous track record would cause most people to reevaluate their beliefs in the effort to one day be right. Yet, he simply refuses to even address or acknowledge that he has been wrong thousands of times, especially if you count each numbered item of his massive lists. He seems to have explosive diarrhea of the mind that no amount of logic can slow or stop.


So, we will wait upon events. I think it signals the second coming of christ, howz about youse?



I find this most interesting. Snyder uses the available data, as he sees it, and makes predictions. Now, I agree that ~setting dates is putting one's head in the bear trap, but back in the late 60s, or was it in the 70s, science was saying we were heading into an ice age. I saw it on the cover of TIME.
This may surprise you, but TIME is not widely recognised as a scientific journal.

Yes, back then *a* scientist (not "science" - abstract nouns don't generally give interviews) predicted an ice age. Other scientists predicted global warming. Over the subsequent decades, the first prediction turned out to be completely wrong, the second accumulated so much correct data that it came to be accepted by every expert not on the oil company payrolls.

Setting dates, and otherwise making precise predictions, is only "putting your head in a bear trap" if you're a tabloid pundit, where the secret of success is to make such vague statements that you can claim to be right whatever happens. For a scientist, making exact predictions (such as dates) is how you show you're a real scientist and not a creationist. Then when your predictions do or don't come true, people know how much weight to give your theories. AGW is accepted by almost all climatologists, geographers, atmosphere scientist, oceanographers, naturalists et cetera, not because they are all in the pay of the World Government Conspiracy, or because they are all revolutionary socialists, but because they have seen its predictions come true for the last fifty years.

Successful prediction cuts no ice at all with politicians, who continue to follow economic theorists whose predictions have failed to come true for as long as they have been writing, but it is the bedrock of science.




vincentML -> RE: Can't be Mother Nature (10/4/2013 8:14:52 AM)

First, let me also report that Time Magazine is not the official journal of "science."

Secondly, the OP's complaint in #8 that science "even changes position" shows an hilarious ignorance of what science is about. The very essence of doing science is to change opinions when new data is discovered. Quite unlike the New Testament I might add just for chuckles.

Finally, this current assessment from the Yellowstone Volcano Observatory:

Yellowstone earthquake activity in September was at elevated levels during the above swarms but, has returned to a relatively normal background level by October 1, 2013.

Slow subsidence of the caldera, which began in early 2010, continues. Current deformation patterns at Yellowstone remain within historical norms.


I recall reading somewhere that the last eruption of the Yelowstone was 300,000 years ago. Someday she may blow again and then oops, all hell will be loosened. But not likely anytime soon. Probably not within our lifetimes.




Marc2b -> RE: Can't be Mother Nature (10/4/2013 8:18:25 AM)

quote:


What argument???? Is your punk-out meter broken?[8|]


This "argument":

"Can't be Mother Nature. Has to be because of our Co2 output. I mean, shit! We humans supposedly cause everything else. Ohhhhh, maybe it's the guns! I just cannot see it as Gaia venting her wrath. So many worship her."

Your obvious implication is that because the Yellowstone super volcano is not caused by human activity then climate change is also not caused by human activity. You present no evidence to back this up (which is not surprising because a false equivalency cannot be backed up). Instead you engage in a straw man fallacy ("We humans supposedly cause everything else") as an additional pretext for snide remarks ("maybe it's the guns" and "so many worship her"). Nowhere do do make an argument that refutes - or even attempts to refute - human induced climate change.




Yachtie -> RE: Can't be Mother Nature (10/4/2013 8:32:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Secondly, the OP's complaint in #8 that science "even changes position" shows an hilarious ignorance of what science is about. The very essence of doing science is to change opinions when new data is discovered. Quite unlike the New Testament I might add just for chuckles.



What you fail to grasp is that my response has zip to do with what science is.

I was punking out what MN said -

Yet, [Snyder] simply refuses to even address or acknowledge that he has been wrong thousands of times

Now, please note my acknowledgment -

What's so damn humorous is that the science fetishists acknowledge science's continuous correction of error.

By admitting correction, science acknowledges error.







mnottertail -> RE: Can't be Mother Nature (10/4/2013 8:41:25 AM)

Ah, so irony. You knew it was asswipe and that your commentary was disingenuous asswipe.




Owner59 -> RE: Can't be Mother Nature (10/4/2013 8:42:54 AM)

Republicans regularly embrace and them reject science ,depending on the day.


Anti-intellectualism and creationism (anti-science) are their contributions to the dialog.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Can't be Mother Nature (10/4/2013 9:38:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Has to be because of our Co2 output. I mean, shit! We humans supposedly cause everything else. Ohhhhh, maybe it's the guns! I just cannot see it as Gaia venting her wrath. So many worship her.
Right now, the ground underneath Yellowstone National Park is rising at a record rate. In fact, it is rising at the rate of about three inches per year. The reason why this is such a concern is because underneath the park sits the Yellowstone supervolcano – the largest volcano in North America. Scientists tell us that it is inevitable that it will erupt again one day, and when it does the devastation will be almost unimaginable. A full-blown eruption of the Yellowstone supervolcano would dump a 10 foot deep layer of volcanic ash up to 1,000 miles away, and it would render much of the United States uninhabitable. When most Americans think of Yellowstone, they tend to conjure up images of Yogi Bear and “Old Faithful”, but the truth is that sleeping underneath Yellowstone is a volcanic beast that could destroy our nation in a single day and now that beast is starting to wake up.


Whew. Just under 1600 driving miles (as opposed to "as the crow flies" miles) away from me. I think I'll be out of the majority fall out radius.

It's probably rising not because of a silly volcano or something crazy like that. It's probably rising due to thermal expansion due to global warming.




DomKen -> RE: Can't be Mother Nature (10/4/2013 9:42:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Has to be because of our Co2 output. I mean, shit! We humans supposedly cause everything else. Ohhhhh, maybe it's the guns! I just cannot see it as Gaia venting her wrath. So many worship her.
Right now, the ground underneath Yellowstone National Park is rising at a record rate. In fact, it is rising at the rate of about three inches per year. The reason why this is such a concern is because underneath the park sits the Yellowstone supervolcano – the largest volcano in North America. Scientists tell us that it is inevitable that it will erupt again one day, and when it does the devastation will be almost unimaginable. A full-blown eruption of the Yellowstone supervolcano would dump a 10 foot deep layer of volcanic ash up to 1,000 miles away, and it would render much of the United States uninhabitable. When most Americans think of Yellowstone, they tend to conjure up images of Yogi Bear and “Old Faithful”, but the truth is that sleeping underneath Yellowstone is a volcanic beast that could destroy our nation in a single day and now that beast is starting to wake up.


Whew. Just under 1600 driving miles (as opposed to "as the crow flies" miles) away from me. I think I'll be out of the majority fall out radius.

It's probably rising not because of a silly volcano or something crazy like that. It's probably rising due to thermal expansion due to global warming.


Depends on which direction the wind is blowing when it does finally blow. There's a substantial ash layer under Chicago from the last time.




Yachtie -> RE: Can't be Mother Nature (10/4/2013 9:57:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Ah, so irony. You knew it was asswipe and that your commentary was disingenuous asswipe.



Not at all. It is irony and I do not see how anyone could miss it, but hardly disingenuous. You stepped right in it. [:D]




mnottertail -> RE: Can't be Mother Nature (10/4/2013 9:58:40 AM)

Not hardly. I saw the asswipe right off. And pointed it out.




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