RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care

RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (Full Version)

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thompsonx -> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (10/10/2013 12:17:23 PM)
do we need insurance to take better care of ourselves? By the same idiotic notion do we need insurance to cover our car in case of an accident? Why is the cost of diagnostic services so much higher in the US? Because they are being run for profit where as the ones in countries with socialised medicine it is not...Why was that so difficult to figure out? The whole idea that needing insurance to pay for those things is ludicrous. Insurance is ludicrous??? Care to explane this asanine concept? If our costs were the same as they are in Germany, more people could afford to pay for them out of pocket, rather than requiring insurance for them to be affordable. Anyone who is actually acquainted with the health care debate would know that the prices for medical care in countries with socialised medicine prices are fixed because of the socialised medicine...no profit = lower price. Why is that such a difficult concept to understand? Regardless of how health care services are paid for, what do you think the health care costs of the US would do if the cost of individual services and procedures was the same as those in Germany (not "set" by government, but as determined by the Market)? Why do you think the prices for medical services in germany are set by the market?

thompsonx -> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (10/10/2013 12:21:59 PM)
That other countries have lower costs isn't proof that our costs will drop. Why isn't it?

thompsonx -> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (10/10/2013 12:27:20 PM)
Apparently, it's magic. The US Government is already spending more as %GDP than the UK. What is the u.s. govt is spending more as a % of gdp than the uk Adding more people will reduce the total spend by roughly 20% The total spend of what? to get down from 10%GDP to 8%GDP. Fucking magic! Hey! Is Harry Potter running the NHS?!? Harry potter at least defines his terms so that we know what the fuck he is talking about.

thompsonx -> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (10/10/2013 1:16:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx You are intentionally ignoring the point. Lack of health care does not kill you. Period. You are intentionally making a fatuous point. Why is that? No one thinks it is witty. No one thinks it is relevant. Would you like to discuss the issue? It is not intended to be witty. It is a statement of fact. So if one is shot, the lack of health care had nothing to do with that persons death?

thompsonx -> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (10/10/2013 1:19:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Neat thing is that Eulero was stating that they see it as a right and their Constitution says it's a right. Perhaps that's where I get the idea that the Italian government is giving something? Nooooo, couldn't be that... [8\|] The u.s. constitution enumerates some rights does that mean that the u.s. govt gives us our rights?

thompsonx -> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (10/10/2013 1:23:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx I firmly believe the US Constitution does not authorize the US Federal Government to provide for the health care of US Citizens. I continue to hear this peurile whine about what the constitution does not authorize but have yet to hear a mother fucking word about what it does authorize. I hear the droll phrase "enumerated powers" but when pressed for a listing none of the proponents seem knowledgible enough to list them for fear of being "interogated". I am not your teacher. Do your own homework. Validating moronic post would be the perview of the poster. You statated that you believe in the "enumerated powers of the constitution" but so far are unable to enunciate what they are.

thompsonx -> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (10/10/2013 1:24:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx For me, the only reasons for government and laws, is to protect the rights I already have. Can you see the difference (not asking you to agree)? Would you agree that our govt is a construct of "we the people"? If so then "we the people" say these are a list of our rights and "we the people" are the govt then is the govt saying what our rights are???or are "we the people" saying what our rights are???or is there a difference? Yes, the Federal government of the US is a construct of "We the People" and the States in the Union. We can't simply say what are rights and what aren't rights, though. How did the rights get into the constitution if what you say is true? For instance, we can't say that owning a Corvette is a right and that government has to provide that for us. This would be an asanine childish attempt to derail the discussion. And, stating that our government is a construct of "We the People" is not the same as saying that our government is We the People. It's a construct. What do you think that means? Does it mean that the people who constructed the constitution put in it what they wanted to?

thompsonx -> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (10/10/2013 1:26:30 PM)
I have entered into plenty of discussions and debates with liberals. Any validation for this patiently false statement.

thompsonx -> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (10/10/2013 1:27:33 PM)
Let's see, there's excess administrative costs. How would you solve this? Reduce the requirements and paperwork necessary. Which paper work specifically?

thompsonx -> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (10/10/2013 1:28:38 PM)
quote: There's excess cost in inflated salaries for medical professionals who can only be licensed by a government-authorized monopoly. Who would you prefer them to be licensed by? More than one authority. Let's try that one more time. Just who the fuck would you have license them? Which other authority? From whom would that authority get it's authority? Why is the u.s. govt (you know the one you trust with nuclar weapons and the army)not trustworthy? Are they not appointed/elected by "we the people"

eulero83 -> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (10/10/2013 1:50:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx do we need insurance to take better care of ourselves? By the same idiotic notion do we need insurance to cover our car in case of an accident? Why is the cost of diagnostic services so much higher in the US? Because they are being run for profit where as the ones in countries with socialised medicine it is not...Why was that so difficult to figure out? The whole idea that needing insurance to pay for those things is ludicrous. Insurance is ludicrous??? Care to explane this asanine concept? If our costs were the same as they are in Germany, more people could afford to pay for them out of pocket, rather than requiring insurance for them to be affordable. Anyone who is actually acquainted with the health care debate would know that the prices for medical care in countries with socialised medicine prices are fixed because of the socialised medicine...no profit = lower price. Why is that such a difficult concept to understand? Regardless of how health care services are paid for, what do you think the health care costs of the US would do if the cost of individual services and procedures was the same as those in Germany (not "set" by government, but as determined by the Market)? Why do you think the prices for medical services in germany are set by the market? In Italy an MRI in a private facility (so at market price) costs around 150,00€ ($203) with no waiting time, I think in the USA it goes over one grand, that would actually make it cheaper fly to Italy and pay there, but the difference is not in costs it's in the demand. For what concern private health care facilities prices are set by market, but it's a different market, the presence of a national health service kills demand for private services so for the supply and demand law price decrease and every provider that can't give a better service at that price will simply be out of market.

Tkman117 -> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (10/10/2013 1:53:25 PM)
FR The point is, the costs in the US are rediculous and the fact that the US is the one first world country not to have a nationalized healthcare is idiotic. But, those thing aside, something needs to change in the US in terms of costs and availability of health care. I don't care and a lot of people dont care if some of you (DS), think that the ACA is the way to go. But you got to admit it's a change from the frustratingly high cost medical system. Maybe it's a good change, maybe it's a bad one, but either way it's gotten a ball rolling which down the road could lead to something everyone can agree on. For example making it an optional tax or something, and those who pay into the system are identified as those who have access to universal healthcare, thus not forcing people to pay for other people's health care when they don't want to. Whatever, it doesn't matter what the final outcome is. Most first world countries would agree this is a success for America (government shut down aside), and trying to stop the ACA will cause more damage than if they simply let it be. You might disagree with me, you might hate me, but this is one step the USA seems to be taking in the right direction. Good on you america, and DS, just thought I'd let you know it's always been conservative politics holding the world back, and no matter how hard you kick and scream, you'll always be forgotten and left in the dust

thompsonx -> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (10/10/2013 1:59:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 FR The point is, the costs in the US are rediculous and the fact that the US is the one first world country not to have a nationalized healthcare is idiotic. What are the other first world countries?

DesideriScuri -> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (10/10/2013 2:07:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx The whole idea that needing insurance to pay for those things is ludicrous. Insurance is ludicrous??? Care to explane this asanine concept? It's generally not legitimately possible to afford to pay for health care without insurance. That means that we pretty much have to have insurance. That is, we have to purchase insurance so that we can purchase health care. quote: If our costs were the same as they are in Germany, more people could afford to pay for them out of pocket, rather than requiring insurance for them to be affordable. Anyone who is actually acquainted with the health care debate would know that the prices for medical care in countries with socialised medicine prices are fixed because of the socialised medicine...no profit = lower price. Why is that such a difficult concept to understand? Do you have any proof that the profit margin in US health care is 50%? If it isn't, then removing profits won't lower our costs down to theirs. quote: Regardless of how health care services are paid for, what do you think the health care costs of the US would do if the cost of individual services and procedures was the same as those in Germany (not "set" by government, but as determined by the Market)? Why do you think the prices for medical services in germany are set by the market? That wasn't the question.

DesideriScuri -> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (10/10/2013 2:09:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Neat thing is that Eulero was stating that they see it as a right and their Constitution says it's a right. Perhaps that's where I get the idea that the Italian government is giving something? Nooooo, couldn't be that... [8\|] The u.s. constitution enumerates some rights does that mean that the u.s. govt gives us our rights? Nope.

DesideriScuri -> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (10/10/2013 2:12:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 FR The point is, the costs in the US are rediculous and the fact that the US is the one first world country not to have a nationalized healthcare is idiotic. But, those thing aside, something needs to change in the US in terms of costs and availability of health care. I don't care and a lot of people dont care if some of you (DS), think that the ACA is the way to go. But you got to admit it's a change from the frustratingly high cost medical system. Maybe it's a good change, maybe it's a bad one, but either way it's gotten a ball rolling which down the road could lead to something everyone can agree on. For example making it an optional tax or something, and those who pay into the system are identified as those who have access to universal healthcare, thus not forcing people to pay for other people's health care when they don't want to. Whatever, it doesn't matter what the final outcome is. Most first world countries would agree this is a success for America (government shut down aside), and trying to stop the ACA will cause more damage than if they simply let it be. You might disagree with me, you might hate me, but this is one step the USA seems to be taking in the right direction. Good on you america, and DS, just thought I'd let you know it's always been conservative politics holding the world back, and no matter how hard you kick and scream, you'll always be forgotten and left in the dust Change for the sake of change is usually dumb. I have no reason to hate you, and my agreeing or disagreeing plays no part in that.

VideoAdminGamma -> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (10/10/2013 2:33:54 PM)
This topic has been temporarily locked for pull violations of guidelines. We apologize for any inconvenience and hope to have it re-opened as quickly as possible. Thank you for your patience, Gamma

VideoAdminGamma -> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (10/10/2013 2:45:50 PM)
Please refrain from severe insults against other poster's family members, as it is considered a personal attack. Thank you for being a part of CollarMe, Gamma

PeonForHer -> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (10/10/2013 2:51:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VideoAdminGamma This topic has been temporarily locked for pull violations of guidelines. We apologize for any inconvenience and hope to have it re-opened as quickly as possible. Thank you for your patience, Gamma You didn't say 'Thank you for being part of CollarMe' there, Gamma. Is that because you hate us all deeply for posting here and want to kill us? Just wondering.

mnottertail -> RE: A question for Canadians, Brits and any other citizen of a country with nationalize health care (10/10/2013 2:55:00 PM)
Well, there goes the kindler, gentler collarme.

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