What is wrong with politics in America

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jlf1961 -> What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 3:27:54 PM)
The movie is a few years old, but there are some quotes that seem to describe the current atmosphere in American politics: quote: People want leadership, and in the absence of genuine leadership they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone. They want leadership. They're so thirsty for it they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage. When they discover there's no water there, they'll drink the sand. People don't drink the sand because they're thirsty. They drink the sand because they don't know the difference. is interested in two things and two things only: making you afraid of it and telling you who's to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections. Comments?

dcnovice -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 3:43:42 PM)
I loved The American President. My favorite exchange (from memory, so wording might be a tad off): Louis: I think the key thing is for us not to look like we're panicking. President: Whereas I think the key is actually not to be panicking.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 3:43:52 PM)
It's a movie... a very bad movie... where the president's consort burned an American flag and was celebrated for it. Oh yeah and they got some meaningless gun and green stuff through Congress and The President killed an Arab janitor with a cruise missile. There are things in this world people SHOULD be afraid of and sometimes its important to know who to blame.

jlf1961 -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 4:09:18 PM)
First of all, freedom of speech is allowing someone to speak what he believes and protest in ways that you would argue against at the top of your lungs. If that means burning an American flag, so be it. I may not agree with it, but I will support the person's right to do it. Yes there are things to be afraid of, but according to many on the right, it is fellow Americans that people should fear, liberals, Muslim Americans, President Obama (who has not violated the Constitution any more than Bush did,) the poor, the uneducated, the educated elitists, secular teachers that support science over creationism, and god knows what else. George Bush said "If you aint with us, you are against us." Well gee, I dont support torture, even if you do call it enhanced interrogation techniques. Under Bush all you had to say was "suspected terrorist associations" to get wire taps, with or without a court order. Racial profiling became more than a phrase, in many cases it became practice. A President that wanted to get health reform was called a Nazi, compared to Hitler and worse, even though the plan for the most part sucks, it is better than what was in place, and it is something to improve on, not get rid of. Hell for the most part, affordable health care to a Republican is insurance anyone making over 125000 a year can afford, unemployment is a handout, social security is a entitlement (even though people paid into it.) Hell the Republicans even put up someone to run for President who belongs to a church that advocates a religious aspect to government. Republicans shove their version of morals down the rest of the peoples' throats in the form of making abortions damn near impossible, barring gays from getting married and making statements that women who use birth control are whores and sluts. People who disagree are called godless and anti christian. Republicans scream for smaller government then push for programs that would put the government in a woman's reproductive system. Blame Obama for the shutdown that keeps veterans from a memorial when it is the Republican house that wont give an inch unless the affordable health care act is defunded. In my opinion the biggest problem in the US are right wing christian zealots who dont give a flying fuck about people making less than 125K, that are struggling to get by on a paycheck that barely covers expenses, and if they get sick, the general right wing consensus is let the bastards die. Now if the majority of the right doesnt believe this crap, why are the right wing talking heads continuing to preach it? rush, hannity (hell anyone on Fox news,) beck not to mention the right wing conspiracy nuts.

DomKen -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 4:26:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Yes there are things to be afraid of, but according to many on the right, it is fellow Americans that people should fear, liberals, Muslim Americans, President Obama (who has not violated the Constitution any more than Bush did,) the poor, the uneducated, the educated elitists, secular teachers that support science over creationism, and god knows what else. A consistent difference between liberals and conservatives is that the conservative views the world with fear. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=calling-truce-political-wars

Lucylastic -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 4:35:25 PM)
FR same as whats wrong with politics in every country, Greed, avarice, money, selfishness, corruption. Oh and too many social conservatives

tj444 -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 4:38:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 The movie is a few years old, but there are some quotes that seem to describe the current atmosphere in American politics: quote: People want leadership, and in the absence of genuine leadership they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone. They want leadership. They're so thirsty for it they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage. When they discover there's no water there, they'll drink the sand. People don't drink the sand because they're thirsty. They drink the sand because they don't know the difference. is interested in two things and two things only: making you afraid of it and telling you who's to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections. Comments? what's wrong in politics is that the politicians know that voters are sheeple and so they can do whatever they want and people just shrug and accept its the way it is.. they may not like it so they grumble a bit but they accept it... voters just keep voting for "their party" no matter how much their party sucks or how much their party has screwed them.. You can not simply blame politicians when as a voter/American you are part of the problem.. To slightly twist a saying- No politician can screw you without your permission.

Owner59 -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 4:48:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy It's a movie... a very bad movie... where the president's consort burned an American flag and was celebrated for it. Oh yeah and they got some meaningless gun and green stuff through Congress and The President killed an Arab janitor with a cruise missile. There are things in this world people SHOULD be afraid of and sometimes its important to know who to blame. Mediocre singer Frank Sinatra sang a tune depicting dangerous anonymous sex with strangers...."strangers in the night, lovers at 1st sight." Wouldn`t be really really stupid for someone to suggest Frank was advocating sex with strangers? [8\|]

vincentML -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 6:44:34 PM)
quote: what's wrong in politics is that the politicians know that voters are sheeple and so they can do whatever they want and people just shrug and accept its the way it is.. The word "sheeple" is used quite a lot in these threads. Mindlessly and without grounding in reality. Americans have several major opposing political philosophies. Based on differing economic and social agenda. We are engaged in a continuing discourse about those philosophies. . . . "sheeple" doesn't really describe our political body, imo. We are the most powerful and most prosperous nation in the world. Unfortunately, we are the victims of our own success. We don't know what to do with our power and prosperity because we do not have a common enemy to unite us. Islamic extremists proved to be relatively harmless. So, we are adrift is all. Can you imagine what will unite us and turn us away from bickering over condoms? It will be pretty horrendous I think.

FelineRanger -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 7:34:32 PM)
What's wrong with politics in America is that the oft-quoted phrases "by the people, of the people, and for the people" have long been forgotten. How long has it been since a $35k/yr blue collar man could make a legitimate run at a political office? Bluntly, never in my lifetime. Politicians have become an elite class unto themselves who are so disconnected from the people they represent that they have no fucking clue what goes on in the very places they claim to come from.

MrRodgers -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 7:44:29 PM)
What we are seeing on the right is a manifestation of what has gone wrong with the republican party since Reagan. They talked a good game for over 30 years but in every case...failed to walk the walk and thus in my mind...the republicans have failed conservatism. Give this a little thought. If...IF, their talk had resulted in the walk as they say, then we wouldn't have the trillions in deficit spending just under Reagan and Bush I. Forget Clinton and Bush II. First of all, if Ross Perot hadn't run we might have seen a 2nd term for daddy. Now most in our family didn't much like how Bush I turned out and from the family elders on down, he spent and borrowed and pursued a sort of foreign policy adventurism that Reagan had started. At that time, we decided to and have not voted repub since. I voted for fucking Harry Browne rather than slick Willie although it turned out, oval office blow job notwithstanding, he put in effect conservative principles. Now in comes W and we get more of the same shit only worse and JR. couldn't run the office so we suspected it was Cheney pulling his neocon strings the whole time anyway. Then we get the tax cuts...good but then silly corruption of the wars, big spending, producing more deficits...bad. So in the end we see a fringe group called the T-party that comes in and effectively says to the republican establishment, "Ok guys your shit was just that...bullshit" None of your ideology so-called, has worked and its been so bad that now we get not only a fucking neophyte and a liberal but our first N as pres. so the fringe thinkers resolve. Properly discounting McCain as a buffoon (he is a dumb ass you know) who clearly demonstrated that by picking Palin, we get this guy. So what are the fringe of the right to think ? If...IF all your shit had worked and you had stuck to conservatism.....ROMNEY might damn well be president. He isn't, so we are now going to hold your fucking RINO asses to the fire. Then they can't deal with the N in the white house so these eventual racists maintain, so shut the govt. down...even over settled law that you dumb ass so-called conservatives brought on us. Now you've inspired the left to go for their shit and we find the country in a real mess thanx to the RINOS and the liberals. You've made the whole party look truly out of touch and now compound it with feeling as if the only alternative is to shut it down to stop the whole train wreck. In addition to your dumb asses, we'll likely see a dem woman in '16. The right now is losing the independents, kowtow to the crazy talking heads on TV and may have sullied the brand for elections as far as the eye can see.

MrRodgers -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 7:57:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: what's wrong in politics is that the politicians know that voters are sheeple and so they can do whatever they want and people just shrug and accept its the way it is.. The word "sheeple" is used quite a lot in these threads. Mindlessly and without grounding in reality. Americans have several major opposing political philosophies. Based on differing economic and social agenda. We are engaged in a continuing discourse about those philosophies. . . . "sheeple" doesn't really describe our political body, imo. We are the most powerful and most prosperous nation in the world. Unfortunately, we are the victims of our own success. We don't know what to do with our power and prosperity because we do not have a common enemy to unite us. Islamic extremists proved to be relatively harmless. So, we are adrift is all. Can you imagine what will unite us and turn us away from bickering over condoms? It will be pretty horrendous I think. The 'sheeple' are the 40%+ that doesn't vote. So the right is fucked no matter where they look and look who they are producing now. There isn't a viable candidate on the right for president anywhere except who...you got it another Bush who might not even get the nomination and if he did, could lose to Hillary anyway.

MrRodgers -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 8:04:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 The movie is a few years old, but there are some quotes that seem to describe the current atmosphere in American politics: quote: People want leadership, and in the absence of genuine leadership they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone. They want leadership. They're so thirsty for it they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage. When they discover there's no water there, they'll drink the sand. People don't drink the sand because they're thirsty. They drink the sand because they don't know the difference. is interested in two things and two things only: making you afraid of it and telling you who's to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections. Comments? what's wrong in politics is that the politicians know that voters are sheeple and so they can do whatever they want and people just shrug and accept its the way it is.. they may not like it so they grumble a bit but they accept it... voters just keep voting for "their party" no matter how much their party sucks or how much their party has screwed them.. You can not simply blame politicians when as a voter/American you are part of the problem.. To slightly twist a saying- No politician can screw you without your permission. A large part of what's wrong with politics is candidates pick their voters...voters don't pick their candidates.

DaddySatyr -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 8:13:48 PM)
What a loaded question! Well, first, the politicians have become a "ruling class" instead of "the peoples' servants". Then, you have the influence of the socialistic "European Ideal" which has pervaded the left in this country. And let me say this about the left: They do a really good job of understanding and internalizing the message of Christianity (for those that don't know me, that is a compliment). Seriously. Most that I know can quote Bible verses and they appear to live their lives within those "guidelines". Where I think they go off the rails is that their liberal Christianity is not tempered with the fact that not all of their fellow men *are* Jesus. It's great to want and expect the best from people but, one needs to remember that more often than not, people fall short of the mark. The right seems to be allowing themselves to be painted into positions that they don't really hold and that's because the left is better at "sound bites" and "looking good" than the right is. I mean, let's face it, people on the right are constantly assailed with horrible epithets that seem to go un-answered by the right. What's wrong with American politics? The electorate; most aren't worth a warm bucket of spit.

TheHeretic -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 8:20:38 PM)
FR Ok. Skipping the "who plays the politics of fear," for the moment at least, we have begun an experiment in California that may break the cycle of jackasses appealing to the extremes of the base. We now have "top two" primaries, where all candidates are on a single primary ballot, regardless of partisan affiliation, and the two with the most votes go on to the general. It's worth a shot.

cloudboy -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 8:38:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 In my opinion the biggest problem in the US are right wing christian zealots who dont give a flying fuck about people making less than 125K, that are struggling to get by on a paycheck that barely covers expenses, and if they get sick, the general right wing consensus is let the bastards die. Now if the majority of the right doesnt believe this crap, why are the right wing talking heads continuing to preach it? rush, hannity (hell anyone on Fox news,) beck not to mention the right wing conspiracy nuts. The nutcases we see today are (what is below) on steroids. >We have reviewed several theories of individual differences, epistemic and existential needs, and individual and collective rationalization to arrive at eight specific hypotheses concerning the motivated social–cognitive bases of political conservatism. In what follows, we consider evidence for and against the hypotheses that political conservatism is significantly associated with (1) mental rigidity and closed-mindedness, including (a) increased dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity, (b) decreased cognitive complexity, (c) decreased openness to experience, (d) uncertainty avoidance, (e) personal needs for order and structure, and (f) need for cognitive closure; (2) lowered self-esteem; (3) fear, anger, and aggression; (4) pessimism, disgust, and contempt; (5) loss preven- tion; (6) fear of death; (7) threat arising from social and economic deprivation; and (8) threat to the stability of the social system. We have argued that these motives are in fact related to one another psychologically, and our motivated social–cognitive perspective helps to integrate them. We now offer an integrative, meta-analytic review of research on epistemic, existential, and ideological bases of conservatism.< POLITICAL CONSERVATISM AS MOTIVATED SOCIAL COGNITION, Psychological Bulletin, 2003, Vol. 129, No.3, 339-375

TheHeretic -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 8:55:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy >We have reviewed several theories of individual differences, epistemic and existential needs, and individual and collective rationalization to arrive at eight specific hypotheses concerning the motivated social–cognitive bases of political conservatism. In what follows, we consider evidence for and against the hypotheses that political conservatism is significantly associated with (1) mental rigidity and closed-mindedness, including (a) increased dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity, (b) decreased cognitive complexity, (c) decreased openness to experience, (d) uncertainty avoidance, (e) personal needs for order and structure, and (f) need for cognitive closure; (2) lowered self-esteem; (3) fear, anger, and aggression; (4) pessimism, disgust, and contempt; (5) loss preven- tion; (6) fear of death; (7) threat arising from social and economic deprivation; and (8) threat to the stability of the social system. We have argued that these motives are in fact related to one another psychologically, and our motivated social–cognitive perspective helps to integrate them. We now offer an integrative, meta-analytic review of research on epistemic, existential, and ideological bases of conservatism.< POLITICAL CONSERVATISM AS MOTIVATED SOCIAL COGNITION, Psychological Bulletin, 2003, Vol. 129, No.3, 339-375 LOL! Now that is fucking funny, Cloudboy!

FatDomDaddy -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 9:10:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 First of all, freedom of speech is allowing someone to speak what he believes and protest in ways that you would argue against at the top of your lungs. If that means burning an American flag, so be it. I may not agree with it, but I will support the person's right to do it. I said, the movie showed that "the president's consort burned an American flag and was celebrated for it." I doubt the American Public would allow a First Lady free had at torching Old Glory without consequence by the voting public much less a presidential girl friend. But whatever.

NoBimbosAllowed -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 9:57:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 The movie is a few years old, but there are some quotes that seem to describe the current atmosphere in American politics: quote: People want leadership, and in the absence of genuine leadership they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone. They want leadership. They're so thirsty for it they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage. When they discover there's no water there, they'll drink the sand. People don't drink the sand because they're thirsty. They drink the sand because they don't know the difference. is interested in two things and two things only: making you afraid of it and telling you who's to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections. Comments? okay, you're not the only one who loves this kinda shit, mon ami. So, I say to you, to be FAIR, and non partisan, as a fellow socio-political movie buff, you owe it to the thread to post what you KNOW is the fair counterpoint eloquently and sardonically -yet not satirically - expressed in "Wag The Dog". Also the only film in which Anne Heche was even bearable.

subrob1967 -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 10:05:17 PM)
FR This is too easy... Everyone elected and appointed to work for the federal government is what's wrong with America. From the President, to his cabinet, to every member of the Supreme Court and Congress... EVERY SINGLE ONE of them has sold out "we the people" to the highest donor.

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