RE: What is wrong with politics in America

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NoBimbosAllowed -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 10:28:09 PM)
going back to the film Wag the Dog, the problem with politics in America and other countries mimicking America has NOTHING to do with actual politicians or those working for them/under them.

tj444 -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 11:03:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: what's wrong in politics is that the politicians know that voters are sheeple and so they can do whatever they want and people just shrug and accept its the way it is.. The word "sheeple" is used quite a lot in these threads. Mindlessly and without grounding in reality. Americans have several major opposing political philosophies. Based on differing economic and social agenda. We are engaged in a continuing discourse about those philosophies. . . . "sheeple" doesn't really describe our political body, imo. We are the most powerful and most prosperous nation in the world. Unfortunately, we are the victims of our own success. We don't know what to do with our power and prosperity because we do not have a common enemy to unite us. Islamic extremists proved to be relatively harmless. So, we are adrift is all. Can you imagine what will unite us and turn us away from bickering over condoms? It will be pretty horrendous I think. victims of your success?.. what crap is that? half your population don't even earn enough to pay any federal taxes.. that's not success.. it means half your population are anywhere from homeless with no income to barely getting by.. Politicians bicker cuz you voters bicker.. just read the threads here.. R vs D, D vs R.. its been going on for decades and nothing will change cuz ya'll keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result.. [8\|]

tj444 -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 11:18:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers A large part of what's wrong with politics is candidates pick their voters...voters don't pick their candidates. get rid of all the fuckers, both parties.. they are all shite.. they are a disease that is destroying your country.. why Americans put up with all of this is beyond me.. nothing will change until you get rid of them all.. you need a bloody revolution & clean house..

NoBimbosAllowed -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/7/2013 11:21:59 PM)
and again the point made above addresses the core of the problem: 2 parties have a stranglehold and have rigged the game so no new third and fourth party can get into the game. Didn't Apple get prosecuted for attempting such bullshit? or was it Windows? I think it was Apple believing the very air you breathe is 'proprietary' and owned by apple because they came up with some crap-app with depictions of air-molecules as the graphic.

MrBukani -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/8/2013 2:04:54 AM)
It's like coca cola since it misses the secret ingrediënt it is just a surrogate for the genuine product. In politics they miss one ingrediënt and that is common sense.

vincentML -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/8/2013 8:03:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: what's wrong in politics is that the politicians know that voters are sheeple and so they can do whatever they want and people just shrug and accept its the way it is.. The word "sheeple" is used quite a lot in these threads. Mindlessly and without grounding in reality. Americans have several major opposing political philosophies. Based on differing economic and social agenda. We are engaged in a continuing discourse about those philosophies. . . . "sheeple" doesn't really describe our political body, imo. We are the most powerful and most prosperous nation in the world. Unfortunately, we are the victims of our own success. We don't know what to do with our power and prosperity because we do not have a common enemy to unite us. Islamic extremists proved to be relatively harmless. So, we are adrift is all. Can you imagine what will unite us and turn us away from bickering over condoms? It will be pretty horrendous I think. victims of your success?.. what crap is that? half your population don't even earn enough to pay any federal taxes.. that's not success.. it means half your population are anywhere from homeless with no income to barely getting by.. Politicians bicker cuz you voters bicker.. just read the threads here.. R vs D, D vs R.. its been going on for decades and nothing will change cuz ya'll keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result.. [8\|] The usual and unsurprising hyperbole. In 2010 in America 14.5% of households were "food insecure." And that was just two years into a massive economic meltdown. SOURCE Bickering amongst our politicians is nothing new. It is an integral part of our history and was worse in past periods. But then not everyone who posts on these boards has a clue about American history. Evidently, some are quite ignorant. Pity [8\|]

DesideriScuri -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/8/2013 9:33:12 AM)
FR, We the People are what's wrong with American politics. An American politician will say whatever he/she thinks will garner the most votes, and will tailor that message according to whatever ear is within the sound of his/her voice. That said, all mainstream politicians want pretty much the same ends. No one wants anyone to go hungry. No one wants anyone to not be able to afford necessary medical care. Etc. The biggest divide is in the means to those ends. Liberals, especially Progressive Liberals, see government as the means to those ends, while Conservatives would rather empower individuals to meet those ends.

PeonForHer -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/8/2013 10:28:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Unfortunately, we are the victims of our own success. We don't know what to do with our power and prosperity because we do not have a common enemy to unite us. Islamic extremists proved to be relatively harmless. So, we are adrift is all. Can you imagine what will unite us and turn us away from bickering over condoms? It will be pretty horrendous I think. That chimes somewhat. For me the film The Village was a pretty intriguing political allegory on the 'common enemy' aspect As some commentators seem to think, there was a deliberate policy to 'create a bogeyman' by neocons, the better to draw the country together.

tj444 -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/8/2013 11:08:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML The usual and unsurprising hyperbole. In 2010 in America 14.5% of households were "food insecure." And that was just two years into a massive economic meltdown. SOURCE Bickering amongst our politicians is nothing new. It is an integral part of our history and was worse in past periods. But then not everyone who posts on these boards has a clue about American history. Evidently, some are quite ignorant. Pity [8\|] I am not quite sure what your point is about households that are food insecure.. that to me is a given considering that such a large % of the US population don't earn enough to pay federal taxes.. I see that as a major fail (not success).. Its your country, not mine. It is up to you and your fellow Americans to make it the country you want it to be. Sure, bickering amoung politicians and voters/Americans isn't anything new.. I guess I should have specified that recently (rather than historically) the bickering has turned into the gridlock you have today.. bickering with a good/reasonable resolution is one thing, never-ending bickering while America burns is quite another.. jmo, of course..

Zonie63 -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/8/2013 11:12:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: what's wrong in politics is that the politicians know that voters are sheeple and so they can do whatever they want and people just shrug and accept its the way it is.. The word "sheeple" is used quite a lot in these threads. Mindlessly and without grounding in reality. Americans have several major opposing political philosophies. Based on differing economic and social agenda. We are engaged in a continuing discourse about those philosophies. . . . "sheeple" doesn't really describe our political body, imo. We are the most powerful and most prosperous nation in the world. Unfortunately, we are the victims of our own success. We don't know what to do with our power and prosperity because we do not have a common enemy to unite us. Islamic extremists proved to be relatively harmless. So, we are adrift is all. Can you imagine what will unite us and turn us away from bickering over condoms? It will be pretty horrendous I think. I think that's probably the real tragedy of it all. With all the power, prosperity, and overall success we've had as a nation, the fact that we really don't know what to do with ourselves is kind of sad. It's like having hundreds of TV channels and you still can't find anything worth watching. Granted, I think our political system has worked to make some things better, but in recent decades, I think that political factions have somewhat fossilized and entrenched themselves. I tend to think that's more of a generational thing that will likely change as the ruling generation slowly dies off over the next few decades. Perhaps the next generation will bring in some new blood and some fresh ideas - things that nobody has thought of yet. For the time being, I think we need to get practical. We have to be flexible and adjust to changing conditions in the world and within America itself. But a lot of people are just plain stubborn.

vincentML -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/8/2013 12:11:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML The usual and unsurprising hyperbole. In 2010 in America 14.5% of households were "food insecure." And that was just two years into a massive economic meltdown. SOURCE Bickering amongst our politicians is nothing new. It is an integral part of our history and was worse in past periods. But then not everyone who posts on these boards has a clue about American history. Evidently, some are quite ignorant. Pity [8\|] I am not quite sure what your point is about households that are food insecure.. that to me is a given considering that such a large % of the US population don't earn enough to pay federal taxes.. I see that as a major fail (not success).. Its your country, not mine. It is up to you and your fellow Americans to make it the country you want it to be. Sure, bickering amoung politicians and voters/Americans isn't anything new.. I guess I should have specified that recently (rather than historically) the bickering has turned into the gridlock you have today.. bickering with a good/reasonable resolution is one thing, never-ending bickering while America burns is quite another.. jmo, of course.. Food insecure Americans are not the only people who do not pay income taxes. Many middle class and wealthy people itemize enough deductions or use tax credits to reduce their tax burdens to zero. There are many who gather their wealth in the dark and hide their assets offshore. This would include corporations and other businesses. Your use of the income tax records paints a distorted picture of poverty in America even if it is not your intention. The current bickering in Congress is mild compared to what occurred in the first half of the 19th C when congressmen came to physical blows over the issue of slavery. The bickering that followed the Civil War into the 20th C was about Labor and civil rights. We are witnessing an ideological struggle again today. But that is not new. It is endemic to democracies. Unlike oppressive tyrannies which surpress vocal disharmony amongst the political body. History is filled with conflict most everywhere and in every age. America is hardly in flames. More hyperbole.[8\|]

tj444 -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/8/2013 4:39:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Food insecure Americans are not the only people who do not pay income taxes. Many middle class and wealthy people itemize enough deductions or use tax credits to reduce their tax burdens to zero. There are many who gather their wealth in the dark and hide their assets offshore. This would include corporations and other businesses. Your use of the income tax records paints a distorted picture of poverty in America even if it is not your intention. The current bickering in Congress is mild compared to what occurred in the first half of the 19th C when congressmen came to physical blows over the issue of slavery. The bickering that followed the Civil War into the 20th C was about Labor and civil rights. We are witnessing an ideological struggle again today. But that is not new. It is endemic to democracies. Unlike oppressive tyrannies which surpress vocal disharmony amongst the political body. History is filled with conflict most everywhere and in every age. America is hardly in flames. More hyperbole.[8\|] of course some rich and middle class people can have a year or even a few years when they don't pay any income tax, like when they have tax losses or charitable donations, start a new business or various other reasons.. blah, blah, blah.. those are not the majority of people I am talking about, and most are very temporary situations so those people do pay federal tax once they have used up those deductions or whatever.. I am also not talking about corporations (which are not included in those stats anyway), or those people that attempt to hide assets offshore (the IRS either catches them or they voluntarily confess and pay back tax & fines).. I am talking about those households that have extremely low household incomes (year after year after year after year after year.. basically permanently low income), the ones that live in areas some people might call "slums", those whose incomes are so low they qualify for section 8 or other (verified) low income benefits.. Just cuz the politicians are not beating each other up physically doesn't mean what is & has been going on recently is mild.. the US is still not over the worst recession/depression since the 30s, its debt has ballooned.. and to the people that lost their jobs, lost their homes, lost their 401ks, whose marriages have broken up from the stress & financial problems, etc, I am sure they don't consider it minor either.. but imo, the biggest problem is that the political deadlock isnt gonna change.. that's ok tho, if it doesn't bother you then I wont concern myself with it either.. [8\|] "The majority this year -- nearly 67% -- have incomes below $30,000." "The Tax Policy Center estimates that a little more than 1% of nonpayers have six-figure incomes or more." http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/29/pf/taxes/who-doesnt-pay-federal-income-taxes/

vincentML -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/9/2013 3:01:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Food insecure Americans are not the only people who do not pay income taxes. Many middle class and wealthy people itemize enough deductions or use tax credits to reduce their tax burdens to zero. There are many who gather their wealth in the dark and hide their assets offshore. This would include corporations and other businesses. Your use of the income tax records paints a distorted picture of poverty in America even if it is not your intention. The current bickering in Congress is mild compared to what occurred in the first half of the 19th C when congressmen came to physical blows over the issue of slavery. The bickering that followed the Civil War into the 20th C was about Labor and civil rights. We are witnessing an ideological struggle again today. But that is not new. It is endemic to democracies. Unlike oppressive tyrannies which surpress vocal disharmony amongst the political body. History is filled with conflict most everywhere and in every age. America is hardly in flames. More hyperbole.[8\|] of course some rich and middle class people can have a year or even a few years when they don't pay any income tax, like when they have tax losses or charitable donations, start a new business or various other reasons.. blah, blah, blah.. those are not the majority of people I am talking about, and most are very temporary situations so those people do pay federal tax once they have used up those deductions or whatever.. I am also not talking about corporations (which are not included in those stats anyway), or those people that attempt to hide assets offshore (the IRS either catches them or they voluntarily confess and pay back tax & fines).. I am talking about those households that have extremely low household incomes (year after year after year after year after year.. basically permanently low income), the ones that live in areas some people might call "slums", those whose incomes are so low they qualify for section 8 or other (verified) low income benefits.. Just cuz the politicians are not beating each other up physically doesn't mean what is & has been going on recently is mild.. the US is still not over the worst recession/depression since the 30s, its debt has ballooned.. and to the people that lost their jobs, lost their homes, lost their 401ks, whose marriages have broken up from the stress & financial problems, etc, I am sure they don't consider it minor either.. but imo, the biggest problem is that the political deadlock isnt gonna change.. that's ok tho, if it doesn't bother you then I wont concern myself with it either.. [8\|] "The majority this year -- nearly 67% -- have incomes below $30,000." "The Tax Policy Center estimates that a little more than 1% of nonpayers have six-figure incomes or more." http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/29/pf/taxes/who-doesnt-pay-federal-income-taxes/ You ignored the following: "The issue of Americans with zero tax liability is a politically charged one. Mitt Romney created an uproar on the presidential campaign trail last year after he incorrectly characterized this group as people who are "dependent on government" and "believe they are victims." Lawmakers, too, often complain about the issue, even though Congress itself boosts the ranks of the nonpayers by passing new tax breaks and failing to review whether the old ones still make sense. But there may be less fodder for heated rhetoric in the years ahead. The Tax Policy Center estimates the percentage of households without federal income tax liability will continue to drop, falling as low as 34% of households by 2024."

jlf1961 -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/9/2013 3:55:06 PM)
I totally forgot about this episode of government run private business. Now granted, George H. W. Bush was president, but if a republican run government could not make a profit with a whore house seized for taxes, how and anyone expect any US government to run health care, Republican or Democrat? [image]local://upfiles/622970/E24BECF2E12C447495A9372BECD77750.jpg[/image]

Hillwilliam -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/9/2013 4:21:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 The movie is a few years old, but there are some quotes that seem to describe the current atmosphere in American politics: quote: People want leadership, and in the absence of genuine leadership they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone. They want leadership. They're so thirsty for it they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage. When they discover there's no water there, they'll drink the sand. People don't drink the sand because they're thirsty. They drink the sand because they don't know the difference. is interested in two things and two things only: making you afraid of it and telling you who's to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections. Comments? Sounds like the mantra of FOX.

tj444 -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/9/2013 5:30:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML You ignored the following: "The issue of Americans with zero tax liability is a politically charged one. Mitt Romney created an uproar on the presidential campaign trail last year after he incorrectly characterized this group as people who are "dependent on government" and "believe they are victims." Lawmakers, too, often complain about the issue, even though Congress itself boosts the ranks of the nonpayers by passing new tax breaks and failing to review whether the old ones still make sense. But there may be less fodder for heated rhetoric in the years ahead. The Tax Policy Center estimates the percentage of households without federal income tax liability will continue to drop, falling as low as 34% of households by 2024." If I ignored what Romney & other privileged Rs said/say, its cuz I don't believe what they have to say.. imo, people that don't have to worry about being "food insecure", those born with a silver spoon in their mouths, even those of them that work hard, they don't get what being poor is like cuz they have never experienced that... people like them have advantages that help them thru life which poor people don't have.. starting with parents that are savvier, they get the best education, tutors if they need em, business contacts from their family & university they attended, having a reliable well maintained vehicle, having those "first impression" business suits & props, etc, etc.. People can usually tell just by one's use of the English language, proper grammar, etc where you fall in society & which side of the tracks you are from.. We will see what happens in the next ten years.. there is such a thing as bracket creep which could lower the number of non-payers but not cuz they are earning more in the future in relation to the value of their earnings today.. but in the future in real terms they could be earning less and still get nailed for taxes.. the middle class has been disappearing, I somehow doubt that trend is gonna reverse.. seniors that have retired are finding out they need to go back to work, that too I doubt will change.. today's kids/young adults are not gonna have an easy time, they are gonna be hit by more taxes than any previous generation & pay for the mis-management of today and previous govts..

TreasureKY -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/9/2013 5:50:56 PM)
[:D] Reminds me of this one I ran across the other day... [image]local://upfiles/416509/DE8D79F0FB5746C89A465671BDF3DA12.jpg[/image]

dcnovice -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/9/2013 6:34:23 PM)
FR Waiting for my "cardiac clearance" (which makes me sound like a used car!) this morning, my mind wandered to this thread. Do I know know how to have fun or what?! I wonder if one of the things that's made our politics so poisonous lately is the proliferation of media. With 24-hour news programs to fill and websites to keep updating, folks have had to drop their standards quite a bit, with the result that even the most trivial crap gets chewed and chewed and chewed like Bessie's cud, giving everyone more and more to get riled up about. In that milieu, every single thing done by anyone on either side of the aisle becomes a football for scoring partisan points. Another facet of the explosion of media options is the loss of any consensus as to what the facts of the day are. That makes finding common ground all the more difficult. Just a few thoughts.

dcnovice -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/9/2013 6:40:39 PM)
Speaking of the lack of common facts: The surgeon general's obese? He doesn't look it. [image]http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/images/rear_admiral_boris_d._lushniak.JPG[/image]

TreasureKY -> RE: What is wrong with politics in America (10/9/2013 6:51:53 PM)
From the wording of that cartoon, it appears to be from mid to late 2009. That's a photo of acting Surgeon General Boris D. Lushniak. He didn't assume the position until July 2013. Prior to him was Regina M. Benjamin who served as Surgeon General from 2009. She's not what I would call "svelt", but I certainly wouldn't call her obese, either. [image]local://upfiles/416509/F4EDED7B37554A4F922A83BA03A4586C.jpg[/image]

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