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Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trust 'em. - 10/8/2013 2:54:07 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Putting aside (1) Obamacare is the Law, (2) Passed by THE HOUSE AND SENATE, (3) Upheld by the US SUPREME COURT and (4) Reaffirmed in a mandate with the wholesale rejection of Mitt Romney's platform of repeal...

Since John Boehner reneged on the deal cut to fund the government at Sequestration levels, why would anyone believe he'd keep his word on anything else going forward?

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 10/8/2013 2:55:17 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 2:59:58 AM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		FR

Saw this on Facebook and got a wry chuckle out of it.

Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We're gonna shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We'll fight to death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We're gonna elect a candidate who'll revoke healthcare NOW."
June 2012: "We'll go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
Aug 2012: "American people'll never re-elect you-they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you got re-elected & we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 35 more times to erase healthcare."
Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart healthcare."
Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 3:02:03 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Boehner's lying about 'a discussion', too.

Here's the NINETEEN TIMES the Democrats TRIED TO NEGOTIATE. **EVERY** Time blocked by Republicans.

1. 4/23 Senator Reid requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Toomey blocked.

2. 5/6 Senator Reid requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Cruz blocked.

3. 5/7 Senator Murray requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator McConnell blocked.

4. 5/8 Senator Warner asked unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator McConnell blocked.

5. 5/9 Senator Murray asked unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator McConnell blocked.

6. 5/14 Senator Warner asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator McConnell blocked.

7. 5/15 Senator Wyden asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator McConnell blocked.

8. 5/16 Senator Murray asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Lee blocked.

9. 5/21 Senator Murray asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Paul blocked.

10. 5/22 Senator Kaine asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Rubio blocked.

11. 5/23 Senator McCaskill asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Lee blocked.

12. 6/4 Senator Murray asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Rubio blocked.

13. 6/12 Senator Kaine asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Lee blocked.

14. 6/19 Senator Murray asked unanimous consent to go to conference, and Senator Toomey blocked.

15. 6/26 Senator Murray requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Cruz blocked.

16. 7/11 Senator Murray requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Marco Rubio blocked.

17. 7/17 Senator Murray requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Mike Lee blocked.

18. 8/1 Senator Durbin requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Marco Rubio blocked.

19. 10/2 Senator Murray requested unanimous consent to go to conference, Senator Toomey blocked.


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 3:43:46 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Pffft. Show me the candidate that's kept every one of his campaign promises.

Pols need to make an image of being strong and decisive. Then the situation changes.

I don't fault Boehner for going back on his word, and neither does Obama. Boehner is right now forced into a position he desperately does not want to be. He's got a fractious GOP to represent, and a united Democratic party to negotiate with. Neither the extremists in his own party nor the Dems are willing to negotiate. He's screwed.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 3:45:22 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Copy of text of email sent to my congressman, a republican.

quote:

I have never voted for you. Given the current situation in Washington concerning the shutdown of the government because you republicans cant get over the fact that the Affordable Health Care Act has stood up before the supreme court, has the support of the majority of Americans, so all you republicans want to act like two year olds. Republicans came up with the idea of mandatory health care back during Clinton, and now that a democrat used a Republican idea, it is now a bad idea. Why the hell wont you people actually do something for this country? Health care is screwed up, education is screwed up, the economy is in the toilet due to Republican deregulation, and all you people seem to do is concentrate on one thing, Obama care. Personally, I am beginning to believe that if a republican actually stood up and suggested that the party negotiates in good faith, the rest of the GOP would stone him or her to death. Get off your collective asses and do something constructive for once, instead of acting like spoiled brats.


_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 3:59:06 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Copy of text of email sent to my congressman, a republican.

quote:

you republicans cant get over the fact that the Affordable Health Care Act... has the support of the majority of Americans

 
Poll: Obamacare remains highly unpopular as implementation looms

A large number of Americans continue to adamantly oppose the nation’s new health-care law and believe it will produce damaging results, according to a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.

Forty-four percent of respondents call the health-care law a bad idea, while 31 percent believe it's a good idea -- virtually unchanged from July's NBC/WSJ survey. By a 45 percent to 23 percent margin, Americans say it will have a negative impact on the country's health-care system rather than a positive one.

CNN Poll: Majority of Americans Oppose Obamacare

A majority of Americans oppose the healthcare legislative centerpiece of Barack Obama’s presidency...
 
Fifty-four percent of those polled oppose Obamacare, while 43 percent of those polled say they support the law as it stands. Both numbers are relatively unchanged since the bill was passed in 2010. Of those polled, 35 percent say the policy is too liberal while 16 percent say it’s not liberal enough.

K.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 4:08:04 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Copy of text of email sent to my congressman, a republican.

quote:

you republicans cant get over the fact that the Affordable Health Care Act... has the support of the majority of Americans

 
Poll: Obamacare remains highly unpopular as implementation looms

A large number of Americans continue to adamantly oppose the nation’s new health-care law and believe it will produce damaging results, according to a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.

Forty-four percent of respondents call the health-care law a bad idea, while 31 percent believe it's a good idea -- virtually unchanged from July's NBC/WSJ survey. By a 45 percent to 23 percent margin, Americans say it will have a negative impact on the country's health-care system rather than a positive one.

CNN Poll: Majority of Americans Oppose Obamacare

A majority of Americans oppose the healthcare legislative centerpiece of Barack Obama’s presidency...
 
Fifty-four percent of those polled oppose Obamacare, while 43 percent of those polled say they support the law as it stands. Both numbers are relatively unchanged since the bill was passed in 2010. Of those polled, 35 percent say the policy is too liberal while 16 percent say it’s not liberal enough.

K.



I have seen polls stating otherwise.

The truth of the matter is that Obama care sucks. However the supreme court has upheld it.

If the republicans could come up with something better, it would be great, but as it is, they have no plan to do so, and hold the budget hostage over the present system.

Hell K, you and I on a three day bender could come up with a better plan than Obama care.

Right now, holding up the budget over it is stupid. They have tried who knows how many times to repeal it, and it has failed.

I am sick and tired of both parties acting like fucking petulant children and doing absolutely nothing.

Personally I think Americans should recall the whole bunch, democrats and republicans and put a bunch of lower middle class citizens in office, anyone that has had to live paycheck to paycheck, drives a 10 year old or older car, and has some idea on how to stretch a dollar.

If the present bunch on capital hill were tasked with designing a horse, it would look like a bad acid trip version of a camel that mated with an octopus.

< Message edited by jlf1961 -- 10/8/2013 4:10:14 AM >

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 4:25:41 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Here's something better: Take the line-item for "Health Insurance", and use it to pay for universal single-payer healthcare.

People's take-home won't change one bit. EVERYONE GETS HEALTHCARE. Not just "I'm having a crisis", but you know, Insulin and shit.

THAT'S why obamacare isn't popular. It's pretty much everything the health insurers ever wanted ( Look at all these new customers ) and doesn't cover everyone.

Of course, that whole "No more lifetime maximium benefit" and "no pre-existing conditions" shit is worthwhile.


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 4:34:55 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		Who his real father is (Frank Marshall Davis)
The IRS
The NSA
We'll be able to keep our doctors and coverage
Benghazi
We have no troops in Syria
I will shut down Guantanamo Bay
It's not a tax
It is a tax
I was elected to do the will of the people.

This piece of shit (Obama) is a walking contradiction. Talk about a fucking liar? If he says the sky is blue, I'm going to start looking for a new definition of the color.





_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 4:36:45 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have seen polls stating otherwise.



Can we see one that doesn't come from the DNC website?





_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 4:39:28 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Here's something better... universal single-payer healthcare.

I agree. I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

I've always supported single-payer too. I'm no opponent of capitalism, but treating everything as if it was market is just insane. You can't come home from a shopping trip at the hospital and tell your wife, "Honey, I really liked the coronary bypass too. But we just can't afford it, so I bought a nose job instead."

Insurees pay the fairest rates when the risk is spread across the largest possible group, which means the whole country, and the lowest rates when the insurer isn't padding them with a profit margin. That adds up to a public single-payer system.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/8/2013 4:54:40 AM >

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 4:58:40 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have seen polls stating otherwise.



Can we see one that doesn't come from the DNC website?







How bout this, I dont give a flying fuck if it is or is not popular. If they dont like it, change the damn thing instead of holding the budget hostage over the fucking thing.

Personally, I think it sucks in most areas. Forcing people to buy insurance when they cant make ends meet is stupid, the only things about it I think are decent are "no pre existing conditions" "no treatment caps.

As for the polls, it seems that I should read the fine print.

However, you might want to read this.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 5:22:53 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

How bout this, I dont give a flying fuck if it is or is not popular. If they dont like it, change the damn thing instead of holding the budget hostage over the fucking thing.



So that's gonna be a "no" on providing the polls that you claimed to have seen?

I'm shocked! Shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!





_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 6:08:41 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

How bout this, I dont give a flying fuck if it is or is not popular. If they dont like it, change the damn thing instead of holding the budget hostage over the fucking thing.



So that's gonna be a "no" on providing the polls that you claimed to have seen?

I'm shocked! Shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!






Actually I addressed the polls thing, it seems that the polls posted and the websites I have visited have dates that are before the last presidential election, thus making them invalid.

And I said I personally think obamacare sucks, in truth is sucks dead donkey dicks. The only thing you can say about it is that Obama care is a start, a bad start, and a piss poor attempt at a start, but it is a start.

As it stands, the Repubs have offered nothing to counter it. Hell they have offered nothing in the way of health care reform in decades. They sat on their collective asses while the Dems came up with a plan that, in all honesty, creates as many problems as it solves.

I would not say going to a nationalized health care system is a solution, but the current health care system we have doesn't begin to cover everyone.

Now getting back to the shutdown, both sides are acting like spoiled children. I suggest we turn VAA and what ever resident dom that wants the challenge loose on Congress with whips, floggers, paddles and if necessary, frying pans to motivate them into doing something constructive.

I even offered this suggestion to end the shutdown.

Even if it fails, the capital will be literally full of the substance that both sides have been spewing verbally for years.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 7:46:17 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		Beside the Affordable Care Act being law, as stated upheld by the US Supreme Court. Has anyone considered that those without any health insurance, must rely on the taxpayers to pay for the service. Now there are those who are against public welfare (forget the part that $59 billion is spent on public welfare and $92 billion is spent on corporate welfare), are those who oppose public assistance willing to pay some one else's medical bills?

I also find it strange that the GOP nominated Mitt Romney who as Governor of Massachusetts signed into law a similar Health Care Act that required people to get health insurance or pay a fine.

And it does appear that some do not fully understand health care at all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx2scvIFGjE&feature=share

< Message edited by Nosathro -- 10/8/2013 8:10:02 AM >

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 7:55:34 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		I think a good point has been made that he is an unreliable partner.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 8:37:18 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jay-carney-smacks-jon-karl-down-hard-gets-instant-fact-check-on-john-boehner-comments/


“Contradicting a host of times when he himself said we would never default, Republican leaders in the House and Senate have long said that they would never allow us to default,” Carney began, addding, “Now we see the leader of the Republican Party on Capitol Hill saying he will not raise the debt ceiling if Republicans do not get what they want. That is highly reckless and irresponsible. It is astounding, really, if you think about it. On October 7, given how little time there is left, that the Speaker of the House is announcing to the world he will not allow a bill to raise the debt ceiling pass if Republicans do not get their specific demands…”

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 9:29:32 AM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have seen polls stating otherwise.



Can we see one that doesn't come from the DNC website?






Is Reuters unbiased enough for you?

They have, as of Oct 1st, 78% of Americans supporting the subsidies in the plan. 69% support the employer mandate. 71% support the Medcaid expansion. 68% support letting young adults stay on their parents insurance. 78% support the ban on denying coverage for pre-existing coverage. 71% support the Medicare tax increase for people making over $250k. 73% support the ban on lifetime caps. However, it is true that only 41% support the individual mandate, which is pretty much required to make the other stuff work affordably. But other than the one (unfortunately necessary) thing, the policies of the ACA are supported by large majority of the American public.


http://polling.reuters.com/

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 9:41:10 AM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Who his real father is (Frank Marshall Davis)
The IRS
The NSA
We'll be able to keep our doctors and coverage
Benghazi
We have no troops in Syria
I will shut down Guantanamo Bay
It's not a tax
It is a tax
I was elected to do the will of the people.

This piece of shit (Obama) is a walking contradiction. Talk about a fucking liar? If he says the sky is blue, I'm going to start looking for a new definition of the color.





And today the usurper's National Park Service is aiding and abetting the ILLEGAL ALIEN RALLY FOR AMNESTY on the National Mall, the very same National Park Service which just last week erected Barricades at the National WWII Memorial, the National Korean War Memorial, the National Vietnam Memorial to prevent WAR VETERANS from visiting same.

The gall, the absolute, despicable, disrespectful, unmitigable gall.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Why 'negotiate' with lying Republicans? Can't trus... - 10/8/2013 9:54:16 AM   
slavekate80


Posts: 362
Joined: 7/4/2013
Status: offline 		Gutting the ACA by not funding it is a legal move. It's dirty, but legal, if it gets enough support to pass through.

Most politicians lie, cheat, and use any technicality they can to get their way. Democrats do it, too. And the more complicated the laws and regulations get, the more it'll happen, because there are so many loopholes to exploit and fuzzy definitions to stretch. There can be no useful negotiations when either side is unwilling to compromise, and neither Republicans nor Democrats want to do more than throw a few crumbs to the other side. Any two-party system will devolve to this kind of gridlock eventually - technically we do have other parties, but they're too small to be a real threat to either of the big players except sometimes at the local level.

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 20
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