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DesideriScuri -> RE: High unemployment is a good thing (11/13/2013 6:28:11 AM)
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ORIGINAL: joether
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Laugh it up, Fuzzball. [:D]
Cute...
As intended.
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
You are missing the point, though, Joether. This isn't about defining what wage is good or proper for someone else. This is about allowing a person to define it for him or herself. This is about allowing people to get a chance to prove themselves and gain work skills to move onward and upward. I'm not saying they should work for $5/hr. I'm saying that they should be allowed that choice. The odd thing that tends to happen is that when you start to prove yourself and show you merit it, more pay comes your way (as long as the employer is allowed to do that). Why? Because the employer wants to keep the best workers he/she can. It's in the best interest of the company to do that. Raise the entry bar and it's going to take longer for those low/no skill workers to gain the skills to show they merit higher pay, and the initial HR pool will be lower because they can't afford to fill that initial pool with as many potential workers.
My experience in life has been: If someone is really good at their job, why promote them out of it? Why increase their wages when the current market favors me, the employer and NOT the employee? Yeah, sure in a few years it could be a buyer's market. But between now and then is still...a few years. In small companies, one is fairly limited on wages. In large companies, they really do not care about you the individual. Your personnel #382482H. In a buyer's market, the possible employee could demand a higher wage and benefits since there is competition to find the best help. When its a seller's market (like right now), the employer can set the pay and benefits rate at a much, much, lower rate and he'll STILL have thousands of people begging for the position.
Granted, being an A-Hole manager quickly gets around, it pays to be diplomatic with employees. They produce good work, that makes you look good before your bosses, who in turn give you pay raises.
Right now, people with Master's Degrees are having trouble finding work, let alone those with just a year of college experience under their belts. Your going to tell me that someone with ten years of work experience AND an MBA is not remotely qualified for a entry level manager's position? I would think they'd be over qualified....
Part of the problem with "over qualified" applicants is the cost of training, and the likelihood of an over-qualified applicant staying once the economy comes back. Companies would rather invest in more long term employees, as it's less expensive to do so. They aren't concerned with the reduction in skills brought to the table because they don't see any long term benefit to the skills the over-qualified bring. Is there a likelihood that a Ph.D. Engineer is going to significantly improve the french frying methodology in your local burger barn (not that a Ph.D. engineer is likely to apply...). Hiring a MBA for an entry-level CPA job, though, is smart, as the skills that make the applicant over-qualified are able to be used by the company. That applicant, too, would already be in-house and trained in the company's culture when the business expands to a more appropriate MBA position, or one opens up through attrition.
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
My belief does not need updating. If a business can get the workers it needs to fill its open positions at $5/hr., why shouldn't it? No one is forcing those workers to work for that wage. They are free to choose the position or not. If a business can't find the quality of worker with the requisite skills at $5/hr., then the business will start to increase what it offers. A few years back, the local Burger King and McDonalds restaurants were offering $10/hr. because they couldn't get enough people to work (pre-Recession when unemployment was low).
Actually, who is forcing you the employer to pay those employees at a rate higher than $5/hour? The Government. The Federal Minimum wage is $7.25/hour. Many states have a higher rate. There are conditions in which you could pay someone below this rate, but it needs special conditions to be met. If you pay an employee under this rate on purpose and the employee can prove it, your in A LOT of hot water with the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB). Those guys do not fuck around.
I'm curious how those local restaurants are doing AFTER the recession first went into effect. Like in 2008 or 2009. Do you think they were having trouble finding help at minimum wage? And if they could go lower legally, would they? You better believe they would! Would you be just a tad bit worried, that the food your consuming was put together by employee who was making a tenth of what it cost you to buy it in the first place?
If they could get people to work for a lower wage, why shouldn't they be able to? No one is forcing anyone to work for shit wages. If someone is working for shit wages, they chose to accept shit wages.
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Engineering positions make higher wages than entry level positions... why? Could it be because companies have to offer more money to lure those with the requisite skills? If a company could pay $10/hr. and get talented engineers to work at that wage, why shouldn't it be allowed to do just that? I realize that's not going to happen, but that's not the issue. If people with the skills required for a job won't work for the wages offered, the business will have to increase it's offering, regardless of what that offer is.
Yeah, go offer serious engineers $10/hour jobs or less and tell me how many take you seriously during the interview (assuming they showed up). In fact, find out how many of them would tell their fellow out of work friends to steer clear of your company all together. Be it working or buying stuff. Watch your profits go down, and the amount of angry customer service contacts spike through the roof! Why offer below an acceptable rate, DS? Go and create such a business. Let us all know from a prison cell after the FBI investigates you for fraud and your found guilty of it in court by a judge and jury that absolutely laughs in your face over this 'social experiment' of yours.
In 2013, there is a reason you DONT offer a serious engineering job to a serious candidate to work for $10/hour. Its called 'common sense'.
You keep tripping on those $ figures. Of course you don't offer a serious engineering job for $10. You don't because you'll never be able to get applicants with the skills the job requires. That's the whole point. If an applicant had the skills required and was willing to work for $10/hr., why would you prevent that from happening?
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Business should be free to offer whatever it thinks it can to fill its positions. People should be free to choose what wage they are willing to work at. Increasing the minimum wage tends to hurt those most who tend to work at minimum wage jobs.
No, businesses are NOT free to offer whatever they think is right for a position. Why? Society has determined that. In the United States, people voted people into creating laws that mark a minimum wage level. People are free to choose a wage all they want, as long as it conforms to existing laws on the books. A employee could ask for a lower wage than what the employer is offering....but.....why would they do such a stupid thing?
An how does increasing the minimum wage hurt the person earning minimum wage? Seriously. If the business is doing well, they'll get hours. If its not doing well, the employee does not get the hours. If a business's financial health is REALLY that bad, its NOT the fault of the minimum wage level! It has much more to do with management's poor managing skills of limited resources. This is the same argument conservatives use for the ACA. In both cases, its a laughable excuse that only is believed by people without a clue about business practices. Like conservatives in the Tea Party...
The minimum wage laws aren't just for those earning minimum wages. They are there for those with no or low employment skills, no work experience, etc. The higher the minimum wage, the fewer people a business can hire for a position. It limits the opportunities for the ones who only have the skills necessary for the low/no skill jobs. Fewer low/no skill employees means fewer people gaining work skills and experience. The minimum wage jobs aren't there for those with higher skill sets, and people with higher skill sets tend to leave minimum wage jobs for opportunities that require and compensate for the higher level of skills. Raising the minimum wage prices out low/no skill workers or those with no work history.
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