RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (10/11/2013 12:02:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Ron,

I've no idea what you've been saying because I finally... out of exasperation... placed you on block. I'm quite sure you couldn't care less, but I wanted to at least let you know why (if you've been posting thoughtful ideas rather than spewing hatred toward "teabaggers") I've not responded to you. I do apologize if this has caused you to feel unable to participate in any way.



Giving hell to all these fellow travelers? No, I guess not. They are breaking the dam here. They are the problem.




DomKen -> RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (10/11/2013 12:56:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

The Fed says it is printing money to stimulate the economy. the Primary reason is because foreign nations are refusing to lend America money at the rates we want.

Bullshit!

Interest rates on our securities is effectively negative. That means demand is so high that the bonds sell below value at auction.

As always never believe the crazy shit the right wing echo chamber tells you.




MrRodgers -> RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (10/11/2013 1:14:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I find it amusing that there was no concern by teabaggers until January 20, 2009 about their historical fiscal irresponsibility, which they now blame on Obama.


For once, Ron... can you please keep the vitriol and partisan rhetoric out of it? Aside from being childish, it isn't helpful.

If your husband insists you two take in his brother till he gets back on his feet and brother wrecks the car say even burns the house down...yes, you must deal with it but you can still blame brother. Once there, you kick hubby's brother out.

So looking into the fiscal history of our elephant in the room...federal debt, we can most certainly blame the republicans (raising the debt ceiling 23 times beginning with Reagan, 8 times under Bush) it is long time that...we kick the republicans out. Get it now ?




MrRodgers -> RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (10/11/2013 1:16:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I find it amusing that there was no concern by teabaggers until January 20, 2009 about their historical fiscal irresponsibility, which they now blame on Obama.

I find it hypocritical that 2008 Democrat Party nominee Obama demonized then President Bush's <$500B average deficit for eight years as "irresponsible...unpatriotic" yet then caused a $1T+ deficit for each of his first four years in office and a $800B+ deficit for this year.


To be fair, Obama's first year was $1.5T and he wasn't in office for the entirety of that year. The 2009 budget was laid out by Bush, though the addition of Obama's Stimulus Bill certainly had some impact on 2009 spending.




Wasn't passed until fiscal 2010.




MrRodgers -> RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (10/11/2013 1:25:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

The Fed says it is printing money to stimulate the economy. the Primary reason is because foreign nations are refusing to lend America money at the rates we want. China is America's most important lender, for the first time in more than a decade became a net SELLER of America debt. Not only have they refused to lend America more money, they have rolled over its existing long term loans into short term ones. This is a huge sign China is losing confidence in the value of the American dollar. Beijing thinks we have a spending problem.

On Jan 16, the German Bundesbank shocked the finiancial world by demanding that America return a large portion of gold reserves held in America. This was three months after the Federal Reserve REFUSED to conduct an audit of Germany's gold! According to the Bundesbank, the Federal Reserve will begin returning 330 tons of Germany's gold----but will take SEVEN YEARS! (WTF?) Why does it take 7 years to ship, what are nothing more than heavy "bricks," to Germany? Do we still have their gold? Now factions in the Netherlands, Austria and Azerbaijan are pushing their governments to take their gold back too.

Germany and China's strong moves show that foreign governments are no longer buying the propaganda. They want gold. they no longer trust America. America's spending problem is destroying the dollar and credibility of its central bank.

Bill Clinton, during the Democratic National Convention said, America can no longer put the debt issue off. "we have to deal with it or it will deal with us." Any Libs in here think they know more about the debt problem than bill Clinton? And that Obama piling on debt is not a big deal?


The fed has said no such thing, the fed for the 1000th time...IS NOT PRINTING MONEY, so please give it up, now. At the ridiculous downgrade to AA foreigners...ALL investors in treasuries bought up 10's of billion of 10 years notes at near historically low rates. So your comment there is more bullshit.

All of your posts are a series of thoughts from only your imagination...not facts at all.




DesideriScuri -> RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (10/11/2013 1:28:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I find it amusing that there was no concern by teabaggers until January 20, 2009 about their historical fiscal irresponsibility, which they now blame on Obama.

I find it hypocritical that 2008 Democrat Party nominee Obama demonized then President Bush's <$500B average deficit for eight years as "irresponsible...unpatriotic" yet then caused a $1T+ deficit for each of his first four years in office and a $800B+ deficit for this year.

To be fair, Obama's first year was $1.5T and he wasn't in office for the entirety of that year. The 2009 budget was laid out by Bush, though the addition of Obama's Stimulus Bill certainly had some impact on 2009 spending.

Wasn't passed until fiscal 2010.


The ARRA of 2009 was signed into law on Feb. 17, 2009. Is that "fiscal" 2010?




mnottertail -> RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (10/11/2013 1:31:32 PM)

Yes, october 1st was start of fiscal 2014. Remember? Sort of been in the news lately. Something about a doubt or a christ scene or something.

we run oct1 to sep30 fiscally.




DesideriScuri -> RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (10/11/2013 2:06:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Yes, october 1st was start of fiscal 2014. Remember? Sort of been in the news lately. Something about a doubt or a christ scene or something.
we run oct1 to sep30 fiscally.


So, FY2014 runs from 10/1/2013 - 9/30/2014. Roger that. Thanks for the info.

FY2009 would have been 10/1/2008 - 9/30/2009, right?

I don't know how I thought that 2/17/2009 would have fallen within FY2009. [8|]






mnottertail -> RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (10/11/2013 2:08:25 PM)

Perhaps the subtraction is simpler than it would first appear to many.




TreasureKY -> RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (10/11/2013 2:34:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I find it amusing that there was no concern by teabaggers until January 20, 2009 about their historical fiscal irresponsibility, which they now blame on Obama.


For once, Ron... can you please keep the vitriol and partisan rhetoric out of it? Aside from being childish, it isn't helpful.

If your husband insists you two take in his brother till he gets back on his feet and brother wrecks the car say even burns the house down...yes, you must deal with it but you can still blame brother. Once there, you kick hubby's brother out.

So looking into the fiscal history of our elephant in the room...federal debt, we can most certainly blame the republicans (raising the debt ceiling 23 times beginning with Reagan, 8 times under Bush) it is long time that...we kick the republicans out. Get it now ?


Personally, I think it sufficient to say that there is a problem. It would seem obvious that whatever we've been doing isn't working, so doing something different would seem in order.




DesideriScuri -> RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (10/11/2013 2:58:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Perhaps the subtraction is simpler than it would first appear to many.


Or maybe not.

I've done some research, applied calculus, carried the 1 and turned left at Alberquerque. It seems to me, that February of any given year resides in the fiscal year that matches that year, rather than the following year.

Applying that "axiom," it's clear that February, 17 2009 definitely is in FY2010. [8|]




TreasureKY -> RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (10/11/2013 4:13:39 PM)

So... it seems to me that a great deal of the problem revolves around our elected representatives and our two party system. I don't know about any of you, but I don't feel my interests have been represented in quite some time (if ever). Elections always seem to boil down to picking the lesser of two evils... and even then, once arriving in Washington it becomes a good ol' boy party where greasing palms and amassing personal fortunes is the name of the game.

The question would be how to fix the situation.

I absolutely loathe the fact that only individuals with large sums of money or the connections to raise large sums of money are able to run for National office.

I hate the fact that winning depends on how much money is spent.

While I admit that serving in a National office well requires time to learn the system, I cannot stand that there is such a thing as a "career politician". The system needs to be simplified.

I'm disgusted with the situation regarding lobbying and favors... and that politicians peddle their service-connected experience and connections into high-paying positions as lobbyists or pundits.

If it were up to me (be thankful it's not [;)] ), I'd like to see candidates serve anonymously.

I'm not quite sure of what the details would be... I'd like to see candidates chosen in some manner like a jury... so many from each county maybe. After summoning, there would be a process where people could request dismissal from consideration (health, family obligations, extreme business needs, etc.)... most likely a much more liberal process than for juries... then candidates would have to be screened for suitability (background and criminal checks, able to read and write, no physical or mental issues that would preclude serving, etc.). Think jury duty and the draft. Hopefully there would actually be a suitable number of candidates after this process.

Candidates might be required to attend some government and other types of seminars where they can learn and consider their positions on different issues (compiled from the top 15 or so questions submitted by the public). After completion, they would be required to complete a questionnaire explaining their views on those positions.

Candidates failing to complete the questionnaire or purposefully attempting to be eliminated from consideration by answering the questions in a less than thoughtful and serious manner, would be removed from the current candidate pool and sentenced to six months community service and automatic placement in the next following election. (You can't get out of serving your Country by being a jerk.)

Once all questionnaires are received, a sufficient pool of candidates would be selected by some random method... however many would be needed to present a statistically diverse selection. The finalists would be given a generic title to be known by... perhaps something like Candidate One, Candidate Two, etc. This title would be the only identification released to the public, along with the completed questionnaires. All newspapers would be required to print these in a special section that can be saved and distributed freely. Candidates would participate in one or two debates where their identities would be carefully disguised... think "The Dating Game" where voices are disguised, as well.

The point would be to mask and eliminate voting for someone based on anything other than their stated views. No voting for friends, what they look like, the sound of their name, their ethnicity, their gender, what car they drive, etc. No voting for a party.

The whole process can be shortened over what it is now because there will be no need for campaigning. The costs would be covered entirely by public funding so no need for fund raising. As the time for deliberation and exposure is controlled, the costs should be minimal. No need for the RNC or DNC with regard to actual candidates.

I'd also make it a requirement that potential voters be able to answer questions about the candidates stated views before they were allowed to cast their ballot. Nothing too onerous, but at least be able to demonstrate that they are familiar with what each candidates believes according to their released questionnaire. Nothing that would discriminate against any class of voter... the "test" could be administered in writing or verbal, and in any language one requests.

The winner of the election would still remain anonymous from the public and serve that way... known only as, for example, Representative Kentucky 1st CD (Congressional District). Communications can be done via email or letter. There would be no need to have rallies or meetings with special groups. The elected official would be required to remain anonymous. No appearing on talk shows, no parlaying their public position into celebrity. Interviews would be required to be submitted in writing and responded to in the same manner.

I realize that operating in this way would likely create a slew of underground organizations trying to identify the officials, but with sufficient criminal penalties for "outing" an official, it might be deterred.

This is, of course, all tongue-in-cheek. I'm sure there are dozens of holes and the logic might not work out at all. But really... what we have is a mess right now.

Edited to add:

I forgot to say... with regard to compensation, I'd like to see officials paid at a rate that equals the National average. To cover costs of having to maintain their home residence, add to their salary an amount equal to their previous years income as shown on their 1040. At the end of their service, they would be allowed to submit a claim for any actual material damages they might have suffered due to their service, but it would have to be strictly documented. No retirement pay, no lifetime perks.

Finally, service would be limited to one term.




DesideriScuri -> RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (10/12/2013 6:59:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
I forgot to say... with regard to compensation, I'd like to see officials paid at a rate that equals the National average. To cover costs of having to maintain their home residence, add to their salary an amount equal to their previous years income as shown on their 1040. At the end of their service, they would be allowed to submit a claim for any actual material damages they might have suffered due to their service, but it would have to be strictly documented. No retirement pay, no lifetime perks.
Finally, service would be limited to one term.


If someone is choosing to serve, that person either accepts the pay offered, or doesn't run for office. If this day and age of connectivity, is it really necessary for people to serve away from their constituents? Maybe we go back to the old days where service was a short time away from "regular life." There would be a much greater impact from the constituents, imo.




thishereboi -> RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (10/12/2013 7:06:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Well 1st off,the republicans have to stop blaming the President for their mess....


For once, Owner... can you please keep the vitriol and partisan rhetoric out of it? Don't you think it's time to stop playing the blame game, put the past behind, and look for solutions to the future?




I would think the posting history speaks for itself but I guess you have to keep dreaming. [8D]




mnottertail -> RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (10/12/2013 7:10:37 AM)

I think that there is a great deal to be said (not exactly in these last few years) for the face to face schmoozing and bargaining and quiet deals that go on between nominal 'enemies'. I believe that having the government pipe in some ultra high speed multimedia into Rep. Joe Cornholers Dismal Seepage Iowas rural hacienda would further exacerbate the distance and the recalcitrance of these folks.




Owner59 -> RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (10/12/2013 9:31:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I find it amusing that there was no concern by teabaggers until January 20, 2009 about their historical fiscal irresponsibility, which they now blame on Obama.


For once, Ron... can you please keep the vitriol and partisan rhetoric out of it? Aside from being childish, it isn't helpful.

If your husband insists you two take in his brother till he gets back on his feet and brother wrecks the car say even burns the house down...yes, you must deal with it but you can still blame brother. Once there, you kick hubby's brother out.

So looking into the fiscal history of our elephant in the room...federal debt, we can most certainly blame the republicans (raising the debt ceiling 23 times beginning with Reagan, 8 times under Bush) it is long time that...we kick the republicans out. Get it now ?


Personally, I think it sufficient to say that there is a problem. It would seem obvious that whatever we've been doing isn't working, so doing something different would seem in order.




Spending 58% of our tax payer dollars on the military is why we`re so in debt, along with billions borrowed to fund tax cuts for millionaires/ billionaires.


But sinse the geopee won`t cut either.......won`t even discuss either.......we`re only allowed to talk about cutting WIC and Social Security entitlements etc.[8|]


We`re not going to have that dishonest discussion....ever again.


Michele lunatic Bachmann is proposing we sell our "non income earning national parks" like Yosemite.[8|]


How about the republicans get off their high horses and as a token of cooperation, pass President Obama`s jobs bill?




TreasureKY -> RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (10/12/2013 10:15:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

If this day and age of connectivity, is it really necessary for people to serve away from their constituents? Maybe we go back to the old days where service was a short time away from "regular life." There would be a much greater impact from the constituents, imo.



Honestly, I don't know. There are things to said about the states that have limited times for gathering legislators together, and again for those who are in session almost all the time.

If we didn't try to legislate every single little thing, they surely wouldn't need to meet as often. Does anyone have any idea how much of Congress' time is spent in doing ridiculous things like voting to declare April 17th as National Crayon Day and congratulating Punxsutawney Phil on seeing his shadow?

On the other hand, I do think it is up to the official. Senator Rand puts out a newsletter every week and though I don't read it often, the few times I've looked it seems like he's in Kentucky quite a bit.

What does the Country spend on travel and such for Congress?




Owner59 -> RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (10/12/2013 10:46:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Well 1st off,the republicans have to stop blaming the President for their mess....


For once, Owner... can you please keep the vitriol and partisan rhetoric out of it? Don't you think it's time to stop playing the blame game, put the past behind, and look for solutions to the future?




I would think the posting history speaks for itself but I guess you have to keep dreaming. [8D]


I`m sorry but the geopee tactic of referring to the national debt as "Obama`s debt" is misleading and dishonest. It`s also a sign of bad faith....like one has no intention of civility...


Gee if your party can`t except a little bit of friendly advice on how to proceed forward then fine....let them refer to the last 50 years worth of debt ias "Obama`s debt" and keep referring to your shutdown as the "Obama shutdown" and we`ll keep treating the republicans like spoiled children...


Just trying to help.






TreasureKY -> RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (10/12/2013 11:02:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I`m sorry but the geopee tactic of referring to the national debt as "Obama`s debt" is misleading and dishonest. It`s also a sign of bad faith....like one has no intention of civility...


Gee if your party can`t except a little bit of friendly advice on how to proceed forward then fine....let them refer to the last 50 years worth of debt ias "Obama`s debt" and keep referring to your shutdown as the "Obama shutdown" and we`ll keep treating the republicans like spoiled children...


*reviews title of this thread*

United States Debt

Funny... I don't see President Obama's name in there anywhere.




DomKen -> RE: United States Debt... or the Elephant in the Room (10/12/2013 1:51:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

What does the Country spend on travel and such for Congress?

Back and forth to their districts/states is out of pocket. Official travel is covered but there isn't that much of that, the odd fact finding junket or trip to a disaster area accompanying the President.




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