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RE: Republican Approval Rating Lowest Ever - 10/15/2013 3:34:54 AM

epiphiny43

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Not quite. Remarkably active fractions of voters in carefully gerrymandered districts are capable of controlling primary elections. Most small district (House) elections, particularly primaries, are decided by small minorities who vote as a block, often on single issues, while the larger group divides their votes fairly evenly among candidates. They don't even begin to represent the whole of each district, given the sad state of voter activity nation wide. The Dems big hope is the Tea Party will force the Republican winners so far to the Right even solid Republican districts will abandon them.
Nothing about a system that seems equanimous about the damage a default would do to each and every district and most of the hard pressed peoples and countries world wide could be called "working well". That a minority seems eager to use this threat to all to gain political advantage is the very definition of a busted and toxic system.
I have no doubts the Founding Fathers in no way intended for representative to simply parrot the temporary desires of their more active constituents (Or, they would have just established a Democracy!), but to represent the Interests of their districts as opposed to it's immediate opinions. They distrusted the education of the voters, their interest, perspective and time to follow issues, the accuracy and timeliness of the Fifth Estate, and the volatile mature of 'Public Opinion'. Spineless pols just wanting to keep a cushy job by toadying to the most vocal minority hardly fit their concept of a public servant or an effective legislative representative, people supposedly selected because of their intellect, education, dedication and concern for the public welfare of the district.

< Message edited by epiphiny43 -- 10/15/2013 3:52:09 AM >

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RE: Republican Approval Rating Lowest Ever - 10/15/2013 7:09:17 AM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43
I have no doubts the Founding Fathers in no way intended for representative to simply parrot the temporary desires of their more active constituents (Or, they would have just established a Democracy!), but to represent the Interests of their districts as opposed to it's immediate opinions. They distrusted the education of the voters, their interest, perspective and time to follow issues, the accuracy and timeliness of the Fifth Estate, and the volatile mature of 'Public Opinion'. Spineless pols just wanting to keep a cushy job by toadying to the most vocal minority hardly fit their concept of a public servant or an effective legislative representative, people supposedly selected because of their intellect, education, dedication and concern for the public welfare of the district.

The House was set up as the part of government closest to the people. Terms are only 2 years to keep that representation proper.

http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa58.htm

quote:

The House of Representatives cannot only refuse, but they alone can propose, the supplies requisite for the support of government. They, in a word, hold the purse -- that powerful instrument by which we behold, in the history of the British Constitution, an infant and humble representation of the people gradually enlarging the sphere of its activity and importance, and finally reducing, as far as it seems to have wished, all the overgrown prerogatives of the other branches of the government. This power over the purse may, in fact, be regarded as the most complete and effectual weapon with which any constitution can arm the immediate representatives of the people, for obtaining a redress of every grievance, and for carrying into effect every just and salutary measure.

And, before we go any further, recent Presidential elections have had higher participation ratios regarding voting. There are voter drives pushed by both parties, groups supporting either party, and non-partisan groups. If a constituent chooses to not make his/her voice heard, is the politician to blame? Jamming phone lines with calls can be done by groups on either side of the divide. I'd be willing to bet that's happened here, too. Groups on the left aren't stupid. I'm sure they have ways of following what's going on and what groups on the right are trying to do. As soon as groups on the right start to push their adherents to start calling, the groups on the left likely start pushing their adherents. If not, whose fault is that?

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RE: Republican Approval Rating Lowest Ever - 10/15/2013 7:23:01 AM

mnottertail

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And when you see how Obama has lowered the deficit, you think, Jeez, that republican approval rating is not done shitcanning:

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/03/06/how-to-prove-obama-lowered-the-deficit-in-four-easy-and-indisputable-steps/

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RE: Republican Approval Rating Lowest Ever - 10/15/2013 8:12:36 AM

PyrotheClown

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Having worked as a paid political goon on both sides,I can say with experience that the main difference when dealing with the driving force behind either political machines when they are actively pushing their agendas is that conservative political rallies tend to be ALOT more organized,While liberal ones tend to be either effectively driven towards one shared goal amongst many different organizations,or just shared mass confusion.
To clarify a bit,the course of action and mass conscientious,no matter how contradictory or momentarily contrived, of the right,tends to lead to courses of action quicker and easier then the left.
I worked fer a conservative political advocacy group fer a while(Hey,what can I say,the checks cleared)and when the client changed,our stance changed the same week.Another coordinator got the contract to collect signatures and all of a sudden ours went to the opposition and low and behold we had a blocking campaign on the very same petition that we were circulating not a week before...it got real fun after that.
While a similar situation with a labor union a few years earlier had a completely different experience.
Not the cause or the later affect,just the "experience".
Allies changed and a company unionized,but they had done so with some sort of agreement with the union.
All of a sudden,the same company with the same contractors are litigating against a recent law passed by the legislature,and low and behold we have a conveniently written petition to remedy it(same as before),cept the union doesn't got the dough to fund it all...and all the benefactors they had in the last fight gotta re-align,and think up a reason behind the move..didn't matter in the end,all the same exact groups funded it in the end,but they had to agree on why.
Same thing happens on closer to home and less funded issues too.
Ever volunteer to organize a bunch of hippies/yuppies/college know-it-alls to fight a ANYThING horrible planned fer yer area?(in my experience,this ranges worlds largest planned megadump surrounded on three sides by the national park,to the local super walmart coming into the neighborhood).
Have you ever been to a tea party?

What's the difference you ask?

Well,at the tea party,it was possible to get anybody to sign just bout anything
they don't ask
they just sign
"here"
"what's this"
honestly"it's a petition to stop a tax"(it was,forget which one exactly right now,but there's always some petition to stop a tax...always...and always somebody will'n to pay you to get a sig on it)
"oh,and this one too"
"What's this?"
"oh,just one fer cancer research"
(and it was...a new tax fer cancer research,that if the lacky ever read,would never sign anything with the word tax on it,not cause they thought bout where their money was going,but that they didn't like paying taxes that much)

at the farmers market...or a college...any where(not all participants at a college,just baby boomer professors)
"What's this"
"It's a tax on cigarettes fer cancer research"
"really"
"yeah,it say's it right here*place some random factoid bout any proposed tax on tobacco for cancer research..really,there's been a dozen of them written fer every state...here*"
"hmmmm"
"I'll halta reed up on it"
...............

Whats the difference?
Putzy tea baggy Mgee will sign just bout anything to get it on the ballot,or any thing really,if he only feels like it's the right thing to do

is it the right thing to do....mmmmmaybe
does he even think its the right thing to do......mmmmmaybe

While professor putzy only does something when he thinks it's the right thing to do...

Does he actually do the right thing.......mmmmmmmaybe
Will he ever take actual action to make sure the right thing happens,or will he just putz over it ........mmmmmmmmaybe

this is our modern democracy at work people...

you get what dumb putz's feel is right
and what smart putz's never get to throw out to left field

don't know how that whole left field thing makes sense...just wanted to put a left in there to counter the right I guess

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RE: Republican Approval Rating Lowest Ever - 10/15/2013 8:33:03 AM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
And when you see how Obama has lowered the deficit, you think, Jeez, that republican approval rating is not done shitcanning:
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/03/06/how-to-prove-obama-lowered-the-deficit-in-four-easy-and-indisputable-steps/

Um, not exactly correct, MN.

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy09/pdf/budget/tables.pdf

The FY2009 budget (as shown on Table-S1) had a deficit of $407B. Revenues were estimated at $2.7T and expenses were budgeted at $3.1T. Revenues fell short by $700B. To think that Obama's ARRA of 2009 had no expenditure impact in 2009 is disingenuous.

Pinning the entire $1.5T deficit on Bush is wrong, but so is pinning it all on Obama.

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What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Republican Approval Rating Lowest Ever - 10/15/2013 8:42:12 AM

mnottertail

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Again, you miss it, the deficit is lower under Obama than Bush. If you claim that it had no effect, I would not disagree with you being disingenuous, but um...................exactly correct, the deficit was lower. We are looking at a fiscal conservative here.

Thanks for playing. The straw manning is disingenuous.

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RE: Republican Approval Rating Lowest Ever - 10/15/2013 10:25:39 AM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Again, you miss it, the deficit is lower under Obama than Bush. If you claim that it had no effect, I would not disagree with you being disingenuous, but um...................exactly correct, the deficit was lower. We are looking at a fiscal conservative here.
Thanks for playing. The straw manning is disingenuous.

There is no straw man, except somewhat built by the article you linked. At no time did I deny that Obama's deficits are smaller. I rely on the OMB's historical tables for that info, but how much can be attributed to Obama and how much can be attributed to no one in particular?

The war ending in Iraq (more or less) was going to happen, but it happened under Obama. Would McCain have continued it for 4 years? I doubt it. The spending reductions due to that happening are not truly caused by Obama. What about money that was spent in 2008 for bailouts that was paid back in 2009/10? That adds to revenues, but it wasn't exactly caused by Obama.

A fiscal conservative? Hardly.

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What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Republican Approval Rating Lowest Ever - 10/15/2013 10:27:49 AM

mnottertail

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call it 8.31 billion.

forget the deficits, look at the debt. Republicans? Teabaggers? Neo-Cons? Conservatives? Hardly fiscal conservatives.

And that is one of the many reasons their approval rating is in the shitter.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/15/2013 10:46:47 AM >

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RE: Republican Approval Rating Lowest Ever - 10/16/2013 11:52:11 AM

papassion

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There was a finiancial rating service on TV saying the US will receive a "warning" that might lead to another downgrading of its paper if they don't show a WORKABLE debt reduction plan. So if the Dems "win" the stalemate, and don't cut entitlements, and the US gets another finiancial downgrade, what did the Dems win? Downgrading will cause higher interest on our debt and more debt. What part of unsustainable don't Liberals understand?

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RE: Republican Approval Rating Lowest Ever - 10/16/2013 11:53:24 AM

mnottertail

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They understand both unsustainable and they understand that the teabaggers are borrow and spend, borrow and spend, and are fiscally hysterical and economic terrorists.

There are cuts on the table there was never a question of that, those are the cuts the imbecilic teabaggers proposed. Even with the 20% increase in defense spending from the teabaggers.

We will defend starving dying people in some grand fucking style though.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/16/2013 11:55:46 AM >

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RE: Republican Approval Rating Lowest Ever - 10/16/2013 2:43:20 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

There was a finiancial rating service on TV saying the US will receive a "warning" that might lead to another downgrading of its paper if they don't show a WORKABLE debt reduction plan. So if the Dems "win" the stalemate, and don't cut entitlements, and the US gets another finiancial downgrade, what did the Dems win? Downgrading will cause higher interest on our debt and more debt. What part of unsustainable don't Liberals understand?

No there wasn't. Fitch issued a warning but nothing in it was about deficit reduction.

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RE: Republican Approval Rating Lowest Ever - 10/16/2013 3:08:47 PM

KYsissy

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And all of this pretty much sucks for a guy like me. Socially, i tend to agree with the dems, economically i tend to agree with the repubs. Consequently there are very few candidates i can get excited about and i have to bring a clothespin to the voting booth.

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