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RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case - 10/14/2013 7:44:26 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Just0Us0Two


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

The next convenient person? You mean the man that fired the gun that put a bullet in his head?
While i agree about the thuggettes...... he is NOT just a convenient person, he killed someone.


Yes, he did. And morally I suspect that's something that's going to haunt him the rest of his life. But legally he was judged to be not responsible and given immunity. That pretty much ends that. The ruling has been sent up to the SC Supreme Court, so it's not guaranteed to be the last word, but it is for now.


Not sure if anyone will find this a credible source, but since it's written by an attorney, I'd say it's more likely to get the legal details right.
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/10/south-carolina-father-wins-self-defense-immunity-in-shooting-of-bystander/

By far the best article anyone has posted on this, good job!

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Just0Us0Two)
Profile   Post #: 201
RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case - 10/14/2013 7:49:15 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You have stated repeatedly that the mere displaying of a weapon constitutes felony assault and even one argued that it would have justified beating the man to death so he couldn't shoot any one. I almost let you get away with that.

lie.

I said pointing a gun at someone is felony assault and it is.

I said the group of floaters would have been justified in beating the man who eventually killed one their group to death after he left the area after making threats, returned to the river bank armed and shot at them. Which according to the twisted logic of SYG would have ben entirely legal since they had no duty to retreat.

You can't have it both ways win the man shows you his gun and says he is going to kill you it is time to act.
For all the talk of wild west you want people to wait till he starts to draw or maybe even till he shoots and then try to react fast enough.
How much do you have to bleed before you can fight back.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 202
RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case - 10/14/2013 7:55:58 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Just0Us0Two

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Ah, the standard reply to non Americans (well one of many)


Hmmm, as opposed to the standard if you only smartened up, got civilized, and did what we did argument from the other side of the pond?



This from somone who earlier in the thread said much the same as me. you would have issues on the SYG claim if the girls had indeed driven off.

As for your point, I have never told anyone not to comment on events in the UK, even if I have pointed out errors.


There is a difference between telling someone that they can't have an opinion because they don't live here and that they don't understand the laws here because they don't live here.
And from your posts I would say he meant the latter in this case.


You are right on target.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 203
RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case - 10/14/2013 8:00:03 AM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Here is a statement from the victims family. It would seem the girls in question were indeed interviewed by the police.

http://www.wistv.com/story/23671666/read-the-statement-from-the-niles-family

That's quite a different story, if true. But then, how often do we see a mother crying that her violent criminal son was "good boy". It just doesn't pass the smell test that such damning information would have been overlooked. I wish we had the whole story.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/14/2013 8:15:06 AM >

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 204
RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case - 10/14/2013 8:31:23 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata



quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Here is a statement from the victims family. It would seem the girls in question were indeed interviewed by the police.

http://www.wistv.com/story/23671666/read-the-statement-from-the-niles-family

That's quite a different story, if true. But then, how often do we see a mother crying that her violent criminal son was "good boy". It just doesn't pass the smell test that such damning information would have been overlooked. I wish we had the whole story.

K.


It is mostly hearsay of what the mother naturally wants to believe.
I find it interesting that the defense lawyer called for them to find the girls then we get this.
If they had been interviewed wouldn't he have know?
If their testimony was so damning he wouldn't want it brought out.
Finally if they had the girls why were they not charged with something?
Raises more Questions than it answers.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 205
RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case - 10/14/2013 8:36:11 AM   
Nosathro


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From: Orange County, California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nighthawk3569


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Stand Your Ground Law = License to Kill


Stand Your Ground Law = Best Thing Ever Happened to Law-Abiding Citizens

'hawk


Tell that to Nile's parents and others who stood their ground and killed an innocent person.

(in reply to nighthawk3569)
Profile   Post #: 206
RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case - 10/14/2013 8:41:56 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
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From: Orange County, California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

killing boys because of loud music

Once again you have selective memory SYG was denied in that case so it did not allow what you want it to.


If you are referring to the Micheal Dunn case in Florida that is still pending. The Rodriguez case in Texas, he was found guilty, he did use the Stand Your Ground Law.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 207
RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case - 10/14/2013 8:49:31 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata



quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Here is a statement from the victims family. It would seem the girls in question were indeed interviewed by the police.

http://www.wistv.com/story/23671666/read-the-statement-from-the-niles-family

That's quite a different story, if true. But then, how often do we see a mother crying that her violent criminal son was "good boy". It just doesn't pass the smell test that such damning information would have been overlooked. I wish we had the whole story.

K.



Even if Niles had a criminal record even Scott lawyers say he was not a threating Scott and all indications he was an "innocent by standard". Did he really deserve to be killed?

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 208
RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case - 10/14/2013 8:50:29 AM   
moapaadom


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Joined: 10/13/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Maestro702

The original article was from a left wing, activist Blog, it wasn't a news source at all.....


We have not got the details to make a real judgment here. Not that that would stop a ridiculous blog like Thinkprogress, from making judgments. Or getting its drones all fired up about it.

Pssssst smarty pants.....
I backed it up on page 1, with two local sources.
For a reason.
Is there a fact wrong? Did the victim die needlessly.
Biased? Depends on your definition.
The decision is being appealed.
The fewer idiots with guns thinking they can get away with killing innocent people via a law with more holes in it than a second hand dart board, the better.



well I will let the smartypants insult go by, except to note that there is a reason you resort to insults.

And yes it did indeed have factually incorrect stuff, as has been pointed out by more than one poster.....SYG was not used at all by the defense. PPP is the statute used by the defense, and it is a codification of existing case law providing "Castle Doctrine". SYG has nothing to do with this case at all, except by ghoulish activists who are trying to hijack this tragedy, before we know all the facts.

And any source (or poster) that pretends Castle Doctrine and SYG are the same is biased and cant be taken as "truth"

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 209
RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case - 10/14/2013 8:53:47 AM   
nighthawk3569


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: nighthawk3569


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Stand Your Ground Law = License to Kill


Stand Your Ground Law = Best Thing Ever Happened to Law-Abiding Citizens

'hawk


Tell that to Nile's parents and others who stood their ground and killed an innocent person.


She should have had that 'young, innocent boy' home, in bed, at that time of morning...instead of him roaming the streets. Then nothing would have happened to him. Unless, of course, his home was broken into...then he could have shot the invader and pleaded SYG.

'hawk


< Message edited by nighthawk3569 -- 10/14/2013 8:55:15 AM >

_____________________________

"If the government is big enough to give you everything you want...then it's big enough to take away everything you have!"

Thomas Jefferson




(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 210
RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case - 10/14/2013 8:55:29 AM   
moapaadom


Posts: 31
Joined: 10/13/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

killing boys because of loud music

Once again you have selective memory SYG was denied in that case so it did not allow what you want it to.


If you are referring to the Micheal Dunn case in Florida that is still pending. The Rodriguez case in Texas, he was found guilty, he did use the Stand Your Ground Law.



(almost) Every defendant is going to present a defense of some sort. If they attempt to use SYG, they ADMIT the Killing. IF in a simplified cheaper quicker process they are found to have acted in self defense, justice is served the innocent walk and the state saves time, money and resources. If they fail to get immunity from SYG, they have admitted the killing, making the following trial, much faster and cheaper. Rodriguez used SYG to admit to an unlawful killing, and is in prision.

Why would that upset you?

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 211
RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case - 10/14/2013 8:55:39 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata



quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Here is a statement from the victims family. It would seem the girls in question were indeed interviewed by the police.

http://www.wistv.com/story/23671666/read-the-statement-from-the-niles-family

That's quite a different story, if true. But then, how often do we see a mother crying that her violent criminal son was "good boy". It just doesn't pass the smell test that such damning information would have been overlooked. I wish we had the whole story.

K.



Even if Niles had a criminal record even Scott lawyers say he was not a threating Scott and all indications he was an "innocent by standard". Did he really deserve to be killed?

Not one person has said he deserved to die.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 212
RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case - 10/14/2013 8:56:57 AM   
moapaadom


Posts: 31
Joined: 10/13/2013
Status: offline 		Hawk, please don't let the left confuse you. SYG has nothing to do with being in ones home, it is only for public places where one is legally allowed to be.

(in reply to moapaadom)
Profile   Post #: 213
RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case - 10/14/2013 8:59:03 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maestro702

Hawk, please don't let the left confuse you. SYG has nothing to do with being in ones home, it is only for public places where one is legally allowed to be.

Misdirection like this is SOP for him.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to moapaadom)
Profile   Post #: 214
RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case - 10/14/2013 9:00:33 AM   
moapaadom


Posts: 31
Joined: 10/13/2013
Status: offline 		Bama, frankly that is still kind of unclear, Niles followed the girls home from the club, and what he as doing out there is unclear.


FR, I don't have enough info to decide if the judge made a correct ruling or not. If with more evidence, it turns out for example that no one shot at the Home, I will gladly call for the Death Penalty for Shannon.

I am making the assumption that the judge had valid reasons for ruling the way he did, if incorrect the judge should be disbarred and Shannon should suffer the full weight of the law.

We just don't know yet

(in reply to moapaadom)
Profile   Post #: 215
RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case - 10/14/2013 9:03:30 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
quote:

ORIGINAL: nighthawk3569

Stand Your Ground Law = Best Thing Ever Happened to Law-Abiding Citizens

Tell that to Nile's parents....


How do you know they wouldn't agree? They're not objecting to the SYG law, and don't seem to appreciate people trying to make it about that.

We understand that the stand your ground law has caused an uproar in our nation at this time, but we do not feel as if it is applicable to this case. ~Source

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/14/2013 9:18:24 AM >

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 216
RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case - 10/14/2013 9:07:14 AM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maestro702

Bama, frankly that is still kind of unclear, Niles followed the girls home from the club, and what he as doing out there is unclear.


FR, I don't have enough info to decide if the judge made a correct ruling or not. If with more evidence, it turns out for example that no one shot at the Home, I will gladly call for the Death Penalty for Shannon.

I am making the assumption that the judge had valid reasons for ruling the way he did, if incorrect the judge should be disbarred and Shannon should suffer the full weight of the law.

We just don't know yet

Yes we need more information.
You will note that I raised a number of questions that need to be answered.
It is true that some revelation could come out that reverses everything.
However with the information we currently have you (general, not personal) kind of have to go with the judge.
I do not feel that you (personal this time) and I have any disagreement of any importance.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 10/14/2013 9:09:22 AM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to moapaadom)
Profile   Post #: 217
RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case - 10/14/2013 9:08:13 AM   
moapaadom


Posts: 31
Joined: 10/13/2013
Status: offline 		The ghoulish left (and that's not all the left, just a subset of it) is simply exploiting this tragedy and grieving family for their own ends. Its rather disgusting.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 218
RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case - 10/14/2013 9:39:59 AM   
AdorkableAiley


Posts: 920
Joined: 9/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman


quote:

ORIGINAL: AdorkableAiley

I wish America could be gun free, but that is just not going to happen and you know what even if it did things would get way worse before they would ever get better. Like drugs people would find ways to have guns anyway only then with them not being legal average Joe has no gun to protect himself against someone else who illegally has a gun.

In one paragraph you clarified the entire reason behind the right to keep and bear arms argument.

And it is complete poppycock as the UK and Australia proved beyond doubt when they did it at a stroke.


It isn't 'poppycock' it is what would go down if we ever lost our right to bare arms. Now I don't own a gun and I never plan on it, but there are plenty of people that insist on having them and a lot of those people would get their hands on guns whether or not it was legal and that just opens a whole new can of worms.

Ailey

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case - 10/14/2013 10:09:48 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman
quote:

ORIGINAL: AdorkableAiley

I wish America could be gun free, but that is just not going to happen and you know what even if it did things would get way worse before they would ever get better. Like drugs people would find ways to have guns anyway only then with them not being legal average Joe has no gun to protect himself against someone else who illegally has a gun.

In one paragraph you clarified the entire reason behind the right to keep and bear arms argument.

And it is complete poppycock as the UK and Australia proved beyond doubt when they did it at a stroke.

Yes, gun control has worked wonderfully well for the UK and Australia.

From 2003: Firearms offences more than double since Dunblane
From 2009: Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade

In Australia, the number of assaults grew five percent each year from 1995 to 2007, four times the annual growth of the population, sexual assaults increased by 51%, an average of four percent each year, and the number of kidnappings went up 53% during the same time period.

Sigh, if only Americans weren't so stupid they'd be so much happier.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/14/2013 10:12:56 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 220
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