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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 5:41:57 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
It's no coincidence that numerous governors -- not just Democrats like me but also Republicans like Jan Brewer of Arizona, John Kasich of Ohio and Rick Snyder of Michigan -- see the Affordable Care Act not as a referendum on President Obama but as a tool for historic change.


You are quoting a Democrat Governor who does not substantiate any of his claims. I have no idea where Brewer or Snyder stand regarding the ACA. Kasich is trying to get Ohio to expand Medicaid. That's a far cry from what the op-ed claims.
    quote:

    Ohio’s Republican governor, John Kasich, is no fan of President Barack Obama’s health reform law. But he has become an unlikely proponent of one element of Obamacare – expansion of Medicaid healthcare coverage for the poor – and he has a warning for his fellow party members about the moral consequences of blocking it.
    ...
    Most Republicans oppose Obama’s Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act as a costly, ineffective and unnecessary expansion of government. But some Republican governors, like Arizona’s Jan Brewer and Michigan’s Rick Snyder, have broken ranks to embrace the law’s Medicaid expansion as a practical way to help the poor while infusing their state budgets with billions of dollars in federal funding to pay for it.


Not exactly what your linked-to op-ed claims.

quote:

Footnote: If the ACA was really such a disaster, the Republicans would never have shut the government down to oppose it, they would have simply let if fail after its implementation.


That would be a very stupid tactic.

1. The poor don't care that the rich are being pinched.
2. Taking something away from someone (ie. a new entitlement) is much harder than preventing it from being given to them in the first place.
3. If the GOP is right (and I do believe they are) and don't prevent it from happening, the media will be all over them like stink on shit for not stopping it. The Democrats will get a pass because they were just wrong, "but were their hearts were in the right place." The GOP, on the other hand, was right, and was "willing to let the nation suffer through it just to prove they were right."


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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 5:42:30 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		FR -

And the can got kicked down the road, again. There is no winner here. Only losers.

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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 5:43:18 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
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Status: offline 		Dude. In case you didn't notice, the BEST SHOT at changing obamacare resulted in a CLEAR BIPARTISAN MANDATE with 87 GOP HOUSE MEMBERS saying 'Fuck all this bullshit"..

The only people saying otherwise are trying to sell airtime for jock-itch spray...

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(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 5:45:56 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Dude. In case you didn't notice, the BEST SHOT at changing obamacare resulted in a CLEAR MANDATE with 87 GOP HOUSE MEMBERS saying 'Fuck all this bullshit"..


Dude? According to DomKen (on the previous page in this thread; in response to my first post after the bill was passed to re-open government), this was a fight the GOP never had any hope of winning.




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 5:46:22 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

FR -

And the can got kicked down the road, again. There is no winner here. Only losers.


Well, if Obama had asked for ANYTHING, you'd hear all about how he politicized that shutdown he engineered with his vulcan mind chess...

But again, John Boehner just got collared by Nancy Pelosi. ANYTHING Obama wants going forward, all he has to do is ask. I think we'll see some movement in cleaning up the legislative issues which allow this nonsense.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 5:48:52 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Dude. In case you didn't notice, the BEST SHOT at changing obamacare resulted in a CLEAR MANDATE with 87 GOP HOUSE MEMBERS saying 'Fuck all this bullshit"..


Dude? According to DomKen (on the previous page in this thread; in response to my first post after the bill was passed to re-open government), this was a fight the GOP never had any hope of winning.





Exactly. But then again, there was no hope of winning when the bill passed with bipartisan support.

And there was no hope of winning when the supreme court upheld the mandate.

And there was no hope of winning when Obama trounced Romney pretty much on the healthcare issue entirely.

But that doesn't stop people from saying "American's hate it". Apparently based on an intenet petition signed by 2 million people.

2 million people isn't a plurality in New York City, or Cook County.

According to the way America works. It's the law. And you have to admit that EVERY legititmate legislative trick was tried. And failed.

And along the way, the GOP was destroyed. The entire world is wondering why John Boehner just didn't have Ted Cruz and Paul Ryan beat up and put back in line. Actually, they know it's because he's impotent. And now that Nancy Pelosi saved his ass, he's her property.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 10/17/2013 5:50:26 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 6:38:21 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Obama's immigration reform is going to sail through without anything but the most token of opposition.



I disagree. The GOP is right now spoiling for a fight they think they can win. Immigration reform is a divisive issue that speaks to one of the GOP's core constituencies - the angry white man. I expect them to take a very combative attitude on this issue.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 7:39:58 AM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

FR -

And the can got kicked down the road, again. There is no winner here. Only losers.




Hardly,the POTUS`s numbers have been raising while your party`s numbers are falling......badly...


In two months,when your party pulls their hostage shit again.....it will be that much more irritating and unwelcome to the public...


And two months closer to Nov. - 2014


We`re counting on you guys,you haven`t let us down yet.


And your party isn`t/wasn`t supposed to "get anything" from fulfilling their constitutionally mandated obligation, to pay our bills on time.TYour party will get spanked tho....if it doesn`t do their jobs....

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/17/2013 7:41:03 AM >

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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 8:44:03 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		what they wanted...what they got...




Attachment (1)

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 8:48:48 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		They were partially (not fully those teabaggers are imbeciles) disabused of a notion or two.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 8:53:41 AM   
cloudboy


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Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

Maybe we should start counting "insurance saved or created like Obama did with jobs" Forgetting the millions of people that are losing it because of Ocare.


This is nothing but a lie.

quote:

In the internal GOP autopsy that must inevitably ensue, both wings will blame the other for the collapse of their strategy, such as it was. The teabaggers will blame the 'moderates' for compromising, while the moderates will turn on the teabaggers for initiating the whole sorry episode. Neither side appears to me to have a choice here.

--Tweak


You may be right.....

quote:

Sorry to say this, cloudboy, but your ideas for #3 through #5 are based upon a GOP that is willing to compromise and work pragmatically toward a solution that is less than they want. The current GOP is driven by ideology, not pragmatism, and it would rather fight a losing battle endlessly than be reduced to getting concessions in a bill they don't like. Their tactics are entirely confrontational and adverse, not cooperative. D Steven


This why some refer to them as anarchists.

quote:

I'm hoping they can harness their anger for good and some kind of constructive purpose, but current events favor your analysis.

Watching the suicide of the opposition in a 2 party system is scary even to someone who is a self proclaimed liberal like me. When on

the National level one half of the 2 party system is as ineffective, divided, and driven by a minority group as far off the mark as the Tea Party

contingent, it does not bode well for the people who make up the rest of the population. I remember well vacillating between Democrats and Republicans

when I would vote, but the Tea Party people make it too easy. They stand some where so far right, anti-social program, anti-growth, anti-anything but white, Silver M


I feel the same way.

quote:

Modify Federal Pensions -- Lucy


Not sure how they wanted to modify federal pensions, but that might be a good idea.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 10/17/2013 9:04:28 AM >

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 10:04:31 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		Looks like the Dems took home the bacon -


The budget measure that ended the partial government shutdown allows for a 1 percent raise for federal employees in January in addition to providing back pay for those furloughed, according to two Democratic Maryland senators.

“The promise of a modest pay raise and back pay for furloughed government employees are good first steps in recognizing the value of federal workers,” said Sen. Barbara A. Mikulski, chairwoman of the Senate Appropriations Committee in a joint statement with Sen. Ben Cardin.


I'm sure this will sit well with the shrinking middle class.


_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 10:14:09 AM   
graceadieu


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Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I still don't understand why the Republicans did this in the first place. They could not hope to win.


I think that depends on what you mean by "win". The aim, allegedly, was to get the ACA's funding revoked. But I don't think that's what it was really about.

A lot of the Tea Party types wanted the government shut down, I guess to prove that we don't need a federal government. And a lot of them either didn't care about or wanted to not raise the debt ceiling, so they could force the nation to dramatically scale back or cancel most government services.

So keep in mind, people who feel that way are the voter base for people like Ted Cruz. If those guys want to stay in Congress, they have to make their base happy. And their base hates the government and hates Wall Street and hates people less conservative then them and wants to burn it all to the ground.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 10:18:43 AM   
graceadieu


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From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata]
We've already seen stories of companies reducing their workforce and cutting hours, and complaints about premiums skyrocketing for many people beyond their ability to afford them. In the final analysis, the Republicans may end up being remembered as the Party that tried to save the nation from an unmitigated disaster.


Where have you seen these stories? I've heard a lot of conservatives talk about how this is happening, but I've yet to see any evidence that it actually is, at least more than it has been for the last 10 years.

It's true that premiums have been rising, just like they have for decades, but the rate of increase has dropped since the ACA passed. Businesses that employ a lot of cheap labor have been doing the "cut hours so we don't have to give benefits" for years and years. I've yet to see any real evidence that they're doing that more now then they did before the ACA passed.

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 10:30:10 AM   
graceadieu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

We'll see over the next few months but if voters remember this and vote accordingly this could bring the GOP back from the brink, some of these ultra safe tea party Congressmen need to be primaried from the center. If not the Republican Party will die a slow death as demographics renders it irrelevant until a new center right party emerges and the extremists are left behind.


The Chamber of Commerce and some other business lobby groups said last week that they're going to start getting involved in GOP primaries, to try to oust these Tea Party guys and get more moderates elected. Hopefully that'll help. (If not, I bet those business lobbies will switch parties, since anarchy and default are much worse for business than taxes and regulation.)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 11:04:08 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

We'll see over the next few months but if voters remember this and vote accordingly this could bring the GOP back from the brink, some of these ultra safe tea party Congressmen need to be primaried from the center. If not the Republican Party will die a slow death as demographics renders it irrelevant until a new center right party emerges and the extremists are left behind.


The Chamber of Commerce and some other business lobby groups said last week that they're going to start getting involved in GOP primaries, to try to oust these Tea Party guys and get more moderates elected. Hopefully that'll help. (If not, I bet those business lobbies will switch parties, since anarchy and default are much worse for business than taxes and regulation.)

If the Chamber does back moderates in Republican primaries in those ultra red gerrymandered districts and some win it could restore sanity to the House Republican Caucus. The question is if the Chamber does get involved and the tea party nuts still win will the Chamber back Democrats in the competitive House districts to put the Democrats in the majority?

(in reply to graceadieu)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 11:16:04 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Dude. In case you didn't notice, the BEST SHOT at changing obamacare resulted in a CLEAR MANDATE with 87 GOP HOUSE MEMBERS saying 'Fuck all this bullshit"..

Dude? According to DomKen (on the previous page in this thread; in response to my first post after the bill was passed to re-open government), this was a fight the GOP never had any hope of winning.

Exactly. But then again, there was no hope of winning when the bill passed with bipartisan support.
And there was no hope of winning when the supreme court upheld the mandate.
And there was no hope of winning when Obama trounced Romney pretty much on the healthcare issue entirely.
But that doesn't stop people from saying "American's hate it". Apparently based on an intenet petition signed by 2 million people.
2 million people isn't a plurality in New York City, or Cook County.
According to the way America works. It's the law. And you have to admit that EVERY legititmate legislative trick was tried. And failed.
And along the way, the GOP was destroyed. The entire world is wondering why John Boehner just didn't have Ted Cruz and Paul Ryan beat up and put back in line. Actually, they know it's because he's impotent. And now that Nancy Pelosi saved his ass, he's her property.


An internet petition was the basis? I guess all those that poll have been basing their numbers on that petition, and not very well, either. I mean, an internet petition to repeal Obamacare should result in 100% against, shouldn't it?

The SCOTUS ruling upheld one specific part (albeit a part that would have sunk the entire thing had it not been upheld), and torpedoed another specific part. I still believe there will be Constitutionality challenges coming, so it's still not done yet.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 11:19:24 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		And I see it way different, what could possibly be challenged and heard at Scotus?

So the teabaggers got their dick in one hand and a whisky bottle in the other, same as always, and loud and ignorant mouths.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/17/2013 11:20:10 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 11:19:43 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
what they wanted...what they got...



Fucking horseshit lies!!!

McConnell got extra funding for a pork-barrel project.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: What the Republicans got - 10/17/2013 11:21:33 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah, another little lie that teabaggers believe that teabaggers dont lie and are fiscally responsible. They been spending and borrowing and borrowing and spending pork out of both cheeks of their fat asses.



< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/17/2013 11:23:53 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 40
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