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RE: Synesthesia - 10/19/2013 6:00:59 PM   
MistressDarkArt


Posts: 5178
Status: offline 		I have it with scents and colors. There are two perfumes that smell intensely 'purple' to me. One I make smells bright 'canary yellow' with a hint of fluorescent green.

I also have it with musical tones. Since I work so much with sound files, their numerical frequencies flash through my inner vision when I hear them and I can feel individual vibrations when I hear or imagine them.

< Message edited by MistressDarkArt -- 10/19/2013 6:01:36 PM >

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)
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RE: Synesthesia - 10/19/2013 6:06:56 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline 		I once worked with another chef and he said he could see the tastes and odours as colours and patterns and if the colours was bad or the pattern garish, he knew the dish was no good and by contrast, if those things were pleasing, he didn't need to taste it to know it would be good to eat.
We all thought he was a little off his trolley at the time but this condition has reared it's head a few times in my life now and I find it fascinating. I wish I had it when I was working in kitchens. It would have been a great addition to the so-called 'normal' senses.

(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: Synesthesia - 10/19/2013 7:32:56 PM   
lovethyself


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Status: offline 		FR

I'm not sure if this condition is as rare as it's claimed to be. If this has always been the way you interpret the world, and there is an underlying assumption that the rest of the world views it the same, why would anyone bring it up? It's only when you encounter someone that processes the world differently, and actually converse on the subject, do you start to realize that it's not universal. How many people see the world this way and are never diagnosed and counted?

I can see it also becoming a habit through learning (though, that's not exactly what we're talking about here). I've been doing a lot of colour coding cables for lengths, using the resistor colour code. Now, when I see a 2, it's red, or 0 is black. Not because I mentally attributed an arbitrary colour to the number from my neurons, but because I've taught myself that's what that colour means.

As for naturally, I've always been able to evoke a sense of feeling or image from a piece of music, but I usually had to focus on it to make it more than a fuzzy feeling. I'm not sure how much of that is me versus the composer. For instance, Vivaldi wrote the four seasons. When I listen (and focus on listening, rather than have it as background noise), I can see different seasonal vistas and environments. I'm not sure how much that is attributed to the titles, though.

It would be interesting if there were a test you could take for fun to see. I've never really analyzed how I interpret the world, other than to recognize that I internalize information differently and sometimes have to translate my thoughts and understandings for someone else to understand what I'm saying. But like Athena, I never really questioned it until I ran up against someone that didn't "get it" when I explained.

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RE: Synesthesia - 10/19/2013 10:11:42 PM   
NoBimbosAllowed


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

Thank you for the assumption that I've only ever done grunt work. It's very telling that you consider hairdressers' 'hard work' somehow inferior.

The field I'm qualified in is professional and my perception of colours, numbers and music didn't impact it in the slightest. In my creative hobbies, it's been very beneficial. If people think you are slacking off, maybe it's you.

In an effort not to derail my thread, this is a particularly colourful piece of music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqA3qQMKueA


I didn't assume you'd only done grunt work. If you read that into the statement and make an emotionalist reply, that's your choice. RE hairdressing, women with PhD's who hav eto go into hairdressing after being accredited in other fields often feel that it's a step down like physicists and engineers who have to drive taxis. They don't get pointedly politically correct about it.

And no one has ever thought I'd slacked off. I've been willing to work 22 hour shifts with no food or sleep or stimulants, unlike most Gen Y's. Creative stuff has been my paid work, not a hobby, so I think in your reaction you've embraced a philosophical form of Synesthesia in your reply.

The other problem with the condition is that people without it actually like to express a strong response to music or art as being the same as having it, which ain't it. Particularly since Synesthesia has been a bit of a trend on Public radio Talk Shows of late.

_____________________________

It's all about the curvature of the female azzzzzzzzzzz, meaning Niki Minaj and Serena Williams and Kate Cerebrano, NEVER Kylie Minogue! Wooden Spoons and Ottoman scenes from Story of O, baby dolls!

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RE: Synesthesia - 10/20/2013 1:30:48 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovethyself

FR

I'm not sure if this condition is as rare as it's claimed to be. If this has always been the way you interpret the world, and there is an underlying assumption that the rest of the world views it the same, why would anyone bring it up? It's only when you encounter someone that processes the world differently, and actually converse on the subject, do you start to realize that it's not universal. How many people see the world this way and are never diagnosed and counted?



This was my thought in starting the thread. It has surprised me that so few people have said this happens to them. My husband is very logic and goal driven whilst I'm more emotional and artistic - I know there's a lot of creative types here and I was guessing that more of those would step forward.

I think you also make a good point about learned associations. Who knows, maybe my associations between numbers/days of the week and colours comes from some colourful counting toy when I was a baby? Also some of my colours seem obvious - rain sounds like a clean fresh grey, but that's not surprising since rain clouds are grey. Perhaps all of these connections have entirely logical reasons, and just somehow get triggered more strongly in some folks than others.

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RE: Synesthesia - 10/20/2013 12:31:02 PM   
DesFIP


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From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		One study I read said it appears in 1 in 88 people, another one said it's more common but in limited form.
I haven't seen anything that talks about gender differences. But I'd be surprised if there wasn't one, the way left handedness is more common in males than females.

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RE: Synesthesia - 10/20/2013 12:51:47 PM   
TigressLily


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

One study I read said it appears in 1 in 88 people, another one said it's more common but in limited form.
I haven't seen anything that talks about gender differences. But I'd be surprised if there wasn't one, the way left handedness is more common in males than females.


Unless the stats have changed, left-handedness is around 17%, but I don't know what the gender breakdown is. I don't run across other female lefties, not many male lefties, but we always get along really well and tend to think more alike. I've read that ambidextrous people are more left-hand dominant and learned to adapt by having right-handedness. I never bothered to try to adapt to a right-handed world. Jimi Hendrix, who IMO was the greatest guitarist who ever lived, was a lefty who played on a right-handed (regular) electric guitar.

What I find odd is when a right-hander is left-footed when playing sports.

_____________________________

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Whom Mortals Shall Call the Moon ~ Lord Byron
She Moves in Mysterious Ways . . . On Your Knees, Boy. ~ U2

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RE: Synesthesia - 10/20/2013 2:33:05 PM   
Kitsuneboi


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From: Oceanside, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

Please share yours! I have my suspicions that everyone feels this way about at least some things. What colour is the number 23?


I feel 23 to always be yellow as I think the number 03 is also yellow. But not thirty, I think of 30 as sounding orange.

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RE: Synesthesia - 10/20/2013 5:37:52 PM   
DesFIP


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Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		The only stats I found for lefthandedness said there's 134 male southpaws for every 100 female. An odd way to list it but the study was from Scandinavia. And we looked it up because The Man bowls as a lefty but in 40 years has never seen a female lefty bowler.

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RE: Synesthesia - 10/20/2013 8:58:43 PM   
TigressLily


Posts: 436
Status: offline
Over here, I'm one. A pretty good one, if I do say so myself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

... The Man bowls as a lefty but in 40 years has never seen a female lefty bowler.


With the family and other families, not on a bowling league, though.

Thanks for the m/f info. Do some females hide their left-handedness? I can't remember the last time I've seen one besides a customer service rep once in a blue moon.

_____________________________

That Orbed Maiden with White Fire Layden
Whom Mortals Shall Call the Moon ~ Lord Byron
She Moves in Mysterious Ways . . . On Your Knees, Boy. ~ U2

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RE: Synesthesia - 10/20/2013 9:20:05 PM   
NoBimbosAllowed


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders


I know there's a lot of creative types here and I was guessing that more of those would step forward.




Maybe you need to be more specific about your definition of 'creative'. as in whether you mean people whom have dedicated half their lives to the Creative Arts professionally, or you mean folks on Etsy, or you mean duhrwad hipsters swiping screenshots of TV animation and adding loser-boy wannabe Archer Dialogue as an over-dub to material they had no hand in.

Which always strikes me as the sound of bats screeching as they battle opossums combined with the dull soul-less sheen of the thorax of a funnel-web spider.

Then again, Athena, I've been paid to illustrate such things for publications you likely have bought or had bought for you. Which means you may have contributed to a creative person's royalty base, LOL

_____________________________

It's all about the curvature of the female azzzzzzzzzzz, meaning Niki Minaj and Serena Williams and Kate Cerebrano, NEVER Kylie Minogue! Wooden Spoons and Ottoman scenes from Story of O, baby dolls!

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)
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RE: Synesthesia - 10/20/2013 10:44:20 PM   
AthenaSurrenders


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Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline 		Of course I've contributed to a creative person's royalty base. I do that on a near daily basis.

I don't think I do need to define creative. I don't put a value judgment on how people choose to express themselves.

It seems to be that every post of yours is carefully constructed to point out how superior you are. It doesn't further discussion. Perhaps it's just me, but many of your posts come across as extremely judgmental and condescending to large groups of people.

If there was another point in that last post, I missed it under the pretentious statements about how other folks' creative endeavors are less worthwhile than your own.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

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RE: Synesthesia - 10/20/2013 11:13:15 PM   
NoBimbosAllowed


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

Of course I've contributed to a creative person's royalty base. I do that on a near daily basis.

I don't think I do need to define creative. I don't put a value judgment on how people choose to express themselves.

It seems to be that every post of yours is carefully constructed to point out how superior you are. It doesn't further discussion. Perhaps it's just me, but many of your posts come across as extremely judgmental and condescending to large groups of people.

If there was another point in that last post, I missed it under the pretentious statements about how other folks' creative endeavors are less worthwhile than your own.


No, every post of mine is designed to keep you honest. Which is different.

You are a UK based fan of various things, but we both know if you were an aspiring writer, and you stood in line for 2 hours to get an autograph from Sarah Waters or Grant Morrison or other people who'd been the key players in a Convention "panel discussion", you wouldn't bloody dare to say anything like what you've said above, which amounts to "the hobbyist is the same as the person who has dedicated heir life to something", which it ain't, and you know it. If you want to call me pretentious, fine, but that's a double-edged sword, and the other side of it "you're being a whinging fan-girl". because of that, you did not tailor your question. You asked for creatives, so you got creatives. But what you WANTED was a select list of people on your own level of endeavor and people who would lie and say that someone who has merely posted pics on facebook is the same as someone who has had to sign contracts with major media companies, and the reason you are so upset is that you know that is UNTRUE. Drawing a distinction between a hobbyist and an accredited pro is not pretentious, but being enough of a fan-girl to want "pro" and "hobbyist" to magically become synonymous in the thesaurus, when they are antonyms, IS pretentious.

Your reply is the colour of dead seaweed, and smells of old honey with hints of almond.

you will become a truly creative person when you stop abusing the psychological crutch of "Tall Poppies Bullshit".




_____________________________

It's all about the curvature of the female azzzzzzzzzzz, meaning Niki Minaj and Serena Williams and Kate Cerebrano, NEVER Kylie Minogue! Wooden Spoons and Ottoman scenes from Story of O, baby dolls!

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)
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RE: Synesthesia - 10/20/2013 11:27:28 PM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
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Status: offline 		All you have demonstrated here is that you have missed the point entirely. I was expecting people who pursue creative endeavors AT ANY LEVEL OF EXPERTISE to be more likely to experience synesthesia that people who don't consider themselves creative. That is not in any way the same as saying that a professional artist or author is the same as someone who dabbles (though, as an aside, I've met some pretty skilled and dedicated amateurs). Creativity is not measured by commercial success or technical skill. It's snobbery to think it belongs to the elite few who make a living doing it.

I can't decide if you are deliberately misunderstanding me because you think it makes you look good, or if you really can't grasp the simple point I am making.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to NoBimbosAllowed)
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RE: Synesthesia - 10/20/2013 11:49:05 PM   
NoBimbosAllowed


Posts: 1450
Joined: 9/19/2013
Status: offline 		annnnnnnnnnnd proving my point.

no-one who's ever given up the fan-girl/fan-boy thing would at any point think I was trying to make myself feel good. They would in fact know in a second that I'm doing the opposite.

you are doing the fan-person thing of defending hobbyist stuff while refusing to recognize distinctions that you yourself, likely, endorse and embrace.

Out of all the dvds you've PAID for, how many have been half-assed hobbyist "I burned this at home" dvds by friends or people on messageboards versus all the other dvd's you own?

out of all the novels you've bought, how many are published via VANITY press?

and why did you ignore the fact I gave you PRECISE colours and textures as per the actual questions and topics of your thread?

behaving like an ANGRY fangirl does not make you less of a fangirl nor erases the difference between a fangirl and an ACTUAL FEMALE CREATOR.

Your comments are now the texture of cobbled cast iron circa 1878 dublin, but they are chromatic Cinnabar Red.

How many NON DIGITAL colours do you have on hand, at this moment, for your colour palette, btw? as in Holbein, Windsor Newton, Pantone, Berol Prismacolour, Utrecht, Daler Rowney, Grumbacher, Rotring, Salis International, and even Copic?

I'm betting less than 95. despite our creativity.

shall we speak of PAPER now?

of PRINTING methods?

if yo9u are TRULY synesthesiac, these typed words are causing non textual effects in your brain.

list some.

or if you don't , you're nt someone with the condition, and thus you have no right to complain about anything I have typed.



_____________________________

It's all about the curvature of the female azzzzzzzzzzz, meaning Niki Minaj and Serena Williams and Kate Cerebrano, NEVER Kylie Minogue! Wooden Spoons and Ottoman scenes from Story of O, baby dolls!

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)
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RE: Synesthesia - 10/21/2013 12:58:04 PM   
lovethyself


Posts: 1818
Joined: 11/4/2012
Status: offline 		I'm unclear as to how knowing non-digital colour palettes has anything to do with perceptions. She could be visualizing pantone 648 when she sees the number 6, but to her it's going to be blue. Not having a name for a shade doesn't change the colour of the shade, just the ability for someone else to replicate that colour.

This thread was started on the topic of synthesia, not professional creativity.

I'm also not sure what you're trying to say about creative people. Am I now no longer to consider myself a musician despite my 20 years at the piano and 15 plus years playing fiddle because I've never been paid to do it? What about my hobby creative projects? I use the same skills I've honed through my career, often staying late in the shop to work on them. I've never sold one, because that's not my goal. I do it so I can express my creative side and sometimes to help me process some things. I have gifted them to many people though.


quote:

ORIGINAL: NoBimbosAllowed

Out of all the dvds you've PAID for, how many have been half-assed hobbyist "I burned this at home" dvds by friends or people on messageboards versus all the other dvd's you own?



I can't speak to dvds, but about 95 percent of the cd's I've purchased in the past number of years have been from the performer, usually at a show in a small venue or house concert, many pwyc covers at the door. Does that put them in the category of hobbyist in your mind? Many have jobs outside of music to support themselves. This day and age, you can set up a recording studio in your basement and get a decent recording (with the right tools and know how). I've never purchased music online, and don't have an itunes account (though I'm going to have to get one now that my mom gave me her ipod. ).

If you think that your words are only insulting to those that you are adressing personally, you're wrong. I've seen you make sweeping generalizations that by themselves aren't that bad, but you then feel the need to lace your opinion with insults towards anyone that your opinion is contrary to. I've repeatedly been insulted by your statements, if only by proximity (I'm in north america, and you've shown your feelings about our culture more than once). The sad part is I know you're capable of having intelligent, constructive discussion, and yet you choose to go the more negative route.

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RE: Synesthesia - 10/21/2013 1:23:32 PM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline 		Indeed. Your post is moist, warm, brown and smells of bovine feces.

People with synesthesia don't necessarily have a reaction to everything in that way. One person may relate music to colours, another smells to textures, it doesn't mean that everyone will react to everything. Saying 'unless you feel xyz when you read posts on the internet, you don't have it' is silly, not to mention pointless, because any muppet can write a string of colours and textures anyway. Synesthesia isn't some super awesome thing only cool kids have - I don't know why anyone would feel the need to make it up for bragging rights.

Calling me a fan-girl is a bizarre twist. Whether I'm a published author, first violin at the halle, or someone who draws Harry Potter erotic fan art with crayolas, it doesn't mean I don't see the world in a certain way.

I think I'm going to have to stop discussing this with you. Your posts are not only offensive, but they often make wild tangential leaps which make sensible debate impossible. There are so many false assumptions and topic changes that I'm finding it difficult to untangle your meaning enough to address your points. Besides, you clearly enjoy the opportunity to make rude comments at the expense of a great many groups of people in order to show yourself in a better light (though it isn't working as well as you think). Like Grandpa always says, 'never wrestle a pig'.

Your need to call me names and cast aspersions on both my honesty and my creativity says more about you than it does about me.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to NoBimbosAllowed)
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RE: Synesthesia - 10/21/2013 2:00:40 PM   
Caius


Posts: 175
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline 		Addressing specifically the neurological basis for the condition, Athena and lovetheyself are correct in their assumption that prevalence is probably higher than one might assume; the cognitive/perceptual researchers who have investigated the phenomena mostly agree that it's better described as a matter of variation within a spectrum rather than a rare condition. That is to say, we all have a degree cross over between certain of our senses (most people can relate to the bleeding effect between taste and smell to some degree, for example), but some people have highly pronounced, specific, or exotic presentation, which furthermore can tap into other cognitive areas in interesting ways. And yes, many of the more interesting cases have been discovered relatively late in life, showing that the subjective assumptions we make about how other people view the world can sometimes mask the effects of these outliers. On the other, it's also become a bit of a buzz word for anybody and everybody to convince themselves that they are one of the exceptional individuals in this regard. Tell enough people that there are persons out there who see things differently, with a twist on the notion suggesting that they perceive "more" (which is not really what's going on here, but often how the language in popular media phrases it) and certain kinds of personality types are going to be convinced they've been experiencing it all their lives -- and with something as subjective as this, dissuading them is next to impossible. You could do it with a lab, but you'd have to be awfully tired of hearing that person go on to structure a test capable of establishing the facts for each individual form that presents itself. Also worth noting is that probably a solid half of the examples given in this thread really aren't synthenesia in the truest sense and more cases of other classes of cognitive association. On a side note, a number of people have mentioned intuiting that a sense smell will often strike a strong chord of emotion and memory recall and they are quite correct in this perception; the sense of smell is the only one of the five distal senses (those known commonly as the "special" senses -- there are in fact many others that humans possess) which plugs directly into the limbic system by way of the olfactory bud. All of the other special senses connect to that module through intermediaries. This gives smell a comparably strong ability to invoke conditioned emotional response or bring a detailed memory into focus.

< Message edited by Caius -- 10/21/2013 2:14:21 PM >

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RE: Synesthesia - 10/21/2013 2:19:53 PM   
eulero83


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

the only thing I experience is tasting smells. Everyone looks at me like I am nuts.


you are not alone

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RE: Synesthesia - 10/21/2013 2:29:31 PM   
Caius


Posts: 175
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline 		Well the fact of the matter is that even "regular" taste is highly informed by smell. If you block the nasal passages or otherwise inhibit the sense of smell and give those so-affected blind taste-tests, you'll get radically different reported results versus the control. This I would think would be fairly obvious to gourmands and fans of certain alcoholic substances, wine in particular, who often have an elaborate process for smelling food or drink in anticipation of eating it. So if people are giving you two weird looks for those claims, I'd jsut go ahead and give them a bemused look back.

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