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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 11/2/2013 12:38:36 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Suggest he get therapy and don't respond any more. He does need to grieve the end of the relationship. If that's what you mean by desperate and addicted. This is natural and normal. But there are dozens of self help books that would give him needed advice to grieve and to slowly move on.

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RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 11/2/2013 1:31:40 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNeith
I didn't mean to give the impression that I was being stalked, only that my former sub is desperate and helpless and addicted to me (despite having seriously discouraged that). Thank you for the help, wow this is a lot to read over.


If he's having co-dependencies issues, it's not up to you to fix him. You can point him in the right direction and then cut off all contact. Anything else will just make situation worse.


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(in reply to LadyNeith)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 11/2/2013 2:12:05 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		Making a list and taking note of the people that think stalking is OK.

All stalkers feel justified ya' know. If you ask a stalker if they were stalking, they are probably going to say no and justify their actions. Seeing some of you empathize with stalking or justifying it is pretty scary. It should be a big red flag that you are one step away from being one yourself.



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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 11/2/2013 2:29:45 PM   
TigressLily


Posts: 436
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Making a list and taking note of the people that think stalking is OK.

All stalkers feel justified ya' know. If you ask a stalker if they were stalking, they are probably going to say no and justify their actions. Seeing some of you empathize with stalking or justifying it is pretty scary. It should be a big red flag that you are one step away from being one yourself.



I don't think anyone here thinks there's anything OK with stalker behavior. It sounds like you had a horrendous experience, as well as LadyPact. If I happened to offend you in any way, I apologize. I didn't overreact because I could sense OP wasn't dealing with a stalking situation. But it's better to be safe than sorry and nip this in the bud right now before it could escalate any further. I'm not a sub, nor have I ever had a stalker - other than my ex had kept tabs on me through other mutual acquaintances & family friends, which was to be expected since I was the one who dumped him - but I can sympathize with submissives feeling bereft without condoning inappropriate actions. No, harassment is never justifiable, much less stalking.

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(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 11/2/2013 5:37:12 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		RS, I didn't see anyone thinking stalking behavior was ok. I think it is one of those continuum things, and that is where the conversation is going.

FR:
I don't think it is abnormal to wonder about, to miss, to want to interact with someone who has left your life. Don't we ALL have that? Most people have done stalker-like activities at one point in their lives. Haven't most of us google'd an ex or re-read old letters from a friend we have had a falling out with? Sure we have. That is a desire to maintain some kind of tenuous connection. Stalking is the other end of that continuum. The extreme, threatening kind of thing is obvious and horrible. We all are in agreement about that. It is the middle part that is a bit grayer, as in most things. That is where the discussion has led.

I don't want to have to AVOID driving by someone's home if it on my regular route. But neither do I want to drive by it continuously. In someone's grief and loss they may find themselves going to the grocery more frequently so they can drive by their ex's home. How often per week does the drive by move from regular grief and unconscious, healing behavior to inappropriate, harming behavior? We would agree' I think, that 100 is inappropriate, but 5? 7? 3? 10? Where is the line? Is it if the other person feels fear? some people are more skittish than others. Some people have been known to recognize stalking type behavior on the first instance and others to be blind to it until the tenth or fiftieth.

Further, 'cause I've been thinking about this having been stalked a time or two in my life, where is the line between reaching out to continue what could be a friendship salvaged after the end of something versus stalking? Of course when one person says, no, I don't want anything to do with you, that is obvious. But many people are vague or unclear, not sure if they want something.

It is like porn, I know it when I see it. some people don't see it or don't want to see it... in the other person or themselves.

best,
sunshine

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(in reply to TigressLily)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 11/2/2013 6:01:15 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I must be as cold as people say I am. When a relationship was over I never wondered what the person was up to now or Google them. I never looked back at old letters or even gave them much of a thought, even old friendships.For me when something ended I didn't hate them but I no longer loved or cared for them either. I am indifferent to them. Why would I want to look back on something I no longer want? If I truly wanted them in my life yet that's exactly where they would be.


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(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 11/2/2013 6:03:07 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Before anything else, OP, I'm glad that you don't have a stalker situation. When I see the word "addiction" mentioned, I relate it to the theory that it is associated with the obsession/compulsion elements and the cycle that ensues. That's a stalker in the making right there. They are obsessed with the other person, the prior dynamic, are compelled to seek the other person out, and even sometimes inflict problems into the other person's life because they have created this whole fantasy in their head.


quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
Making a list and taking note of the people that think stalking is OK.

All stalkers feel justified ya' know. If you ask a stalker if they were stalking, they are probably going to say no and justify their actions. Seeing some of you empathize with stalking or justifying it is pretty scary. It should be a big red flag that you are one step away from being one yourself.



I know it's a tough subject, RS. Harder for those of us who have had a stalker to impress upon those who have never had a stalker/abusive person after the fact to really get where you're coming from. However, when I contacted people privately and gave them the short list (and yes, folks, that was the SHORT list) of the things I can't say on the forum, I wasn't met with any version of "yeah, but......." It's not that folks are finding any of the actions acceptable. They have sympathy for the other person's pain, but they aren't condoning any of the actions. I was actually pretty impressed with a couple of the exchanges that I had, and you know Me. That's saying something.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TigressLily
I don't think anyone here thinks there's anything OK with stalker behavior. It sounds like you had a horrendous experience, as well as LadyPact. If I happened to offend you in any way, I apologize. I didn't overreact because I could sense OP wasn't dealing with a stalking situation. But it's better to be safe than sorry and nip this in the bud right now before it could escalate any further. I'm not a sub, nor have I ever had a stalker - other than my ex had kept tabs on me through other mutual acquaintances & family friends, which was to be expected since I was the one who dumped him - but I can sympathize with submissives feeling bereft without condoning inappropriate actions. No, harassment is never justifiable, much less stalking.

I won't speak for RS. Personally, I wasn't offended. Not here and not on the other side. What I did feel, a time or two, was that some were looking at the pain a person might experience and not understand how that translates into how some of the comments *might* be interpreted.

I'm actually all for supportive comments regarding the grieving person at the end of whatever. Eat your ice cream, cry, watch chick flicks, listen to 'you done me wrong' songs, reach out to other s-types in the community, and get therapy if it's necessary. As I say with a lot of other things, your rights end where My nose begins. In other words, you don't get to inflict your crap on My world and if you can't manage that, you need professional help.

(All "you" statements are meant as a generic "you" and not to any particular individual.)




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(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 11/2/2013 7:48:19 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I must be as cold as people say I am. When a relationship was over I never wondered what the person was up to now or Google them. I never looked back at old letters or even gave them much of a thought, even old friendships.For me when something ended I didn't hate them but I no longer loved or cared for them either. I am indifferent to them. Why would I want to look back on something I no longer want? If I truly wanted them in my life yet that's exactly where they would be.



Well, wonder, I suppose you are luckier than most people. Some of us find relationships messier than others. Personally, I miss my grandfather who has died, I miss living in a big noisy family at times, I miss the quiet of a farm to get away from all the people, I miss my grandmother's hugs, I miss the laughter I had with some old friends who I had shorthand understandings with, I miss X who always smelled so good when he held me.

I like walking down memory lane. I've been to the house I used to live in just to bring back the memories of my mother. I have re-visited my old high school and talked with my teachers and thanked them for their support. I even attend Catholic mass once or twice a year to maintain that old connection. Frankly, I'm glad I don't live in emotional indifference. While it can be terrifically painful, for me it beats out that kind of cold.

And, by the way, wonder, awhile back, you said this:
I send Christmas cards every year to tons of family who i haven't seen in over 20 years. The only cards I ever get in return are from my sisters.

That sure sounds like a relationship that isn't existing except in your mind. Are you stalking your "tons of family"? Wouldn't this be classified as a warm, fuzzy?

Just a thought.
best,
sunshine

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Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 11/2/2013 8:35:06 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		No, not a warm fuzzy. More like habit and tradition. I see my family maybe, once a year if even that. I don't expect a reply from them or anything else. It's just simply a Christmas tradition. I like Christmas. The only relationship I can even think that I miss is that of my father. But any others, even with my sisters or mother I don't miss at all. I have my daughter but it's not like our relationship is over or I don't see her. We still talk and see each other. I was talking about relationships that have ended. I can't even say I think much about my deceased husband except at times when I'm talking to someone about something and it happens to come up in conversation. I just can't see the sense on staying in the past.



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Everything has changed

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 11/2/2013 10:11:20 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		RS, no one was condoning stalking. I can't even imagine how you came up with that. People simply mentioned that the person the op ended the relationship with was in pain and they sympathized with that pain.

I'm not going to tell someone they don't have the right to feel the way they do. Or say their pain is excessive. You feel what you feel and by definition feelings are not factual and are not logical.

You can feel sad for as long as you need to. Feel angry as long as you need to. Which is a lot different than anyone saying you're justified burning down the ex's house because of your anger. Or looking in their windows. Feelings just are, we draw the line at actions.

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 11/3/2013 1:57:34 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		[FR]

So... before reading this thread, my stance would have been pretty much the same as RS's...

But, plainly "real stuff" is never quite as simple.

I've had a stalker, years ago and in a context completely unrelated to kink. In that case, I'd done absolutely nothing to provoke stalker girl, I barely even knew she existed. In her case, she was simply a very unwell person, and it took the police, a forced relocation, and a ton of therapy to get her back on track.

But I understand that she did get back on track, and I'm rather glad that I didn't "do the course" and get a carry permit, since I'm not sure that executing stalkers is the right way to go.

What I've learned though, is that there are miles of "gray area", where someone who feels they're being stalked, or simply that they're in receipt of a bunch of unwanted attention, should at least reflect a little on what they may have done to create the dynamic.

My advice to the OP is pretty much in line with what other (very smart) people have already said...

1) Make it very clear that the attention is not only unwanted, but it's unpleasant.
2) Cut off contact
3) If the person continues to pursue things then get external help in the form of a restraining order, law enforcement.

But also...

4) Reflect a little on what you might have done to create this level of "need" in that person.

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(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 11/3/2013 3:51:40 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		Seriously what do you expect when your whole goal was to control the person, take over their lives, go deep within their pyschy and one day decide ok Im done. You took the time to control the person because you wanted too, but when your done you just want that person to go away. Its a selfish act on a doms part. Unless the sub did something significant to end the relationship, they are going to have some why questions and they should be answered, not to do so is purely selfish. They deserve at least that. The poster has said she is not being stalked. Show kindness to people.

Most subs are gifted with great depth of feelings, giving, loving, compassion, generosity and service oriented. You wanted those things as a dome? respect as a dom? Then respect the subs sad feelings which are very natural in a break up. That's what an unselfish person does, period.


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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 11/3/2013 4:11:17 AM   
MASTERLIX


Posts: 79
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: SIR LIX OF ATLANTA
Status: offline 		Now that the OP has clarified their original post, and in reading their profile, they are also new to the lifestyle. This situation could be that of a boyfriend/girlfriend or Top/bottom that appears as Dom/sub (there are many of those in the lifestyle).

Therefore, this is not as serious as it implies. It therefore also undermines those serious issues that people encounter in the lifestyle that fall under the original post.

My suggestion is that we should address the topic as it applies basically.

SL

(in reply to LadyNeith)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 11/9/2013 2:04:48 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I know it's a tough subject, RS. Harder for those of us who have had a stalker to impress upon those who have never had a stalker/abusive person after the fact to really get where you're coming from. However, when I contacted people privately and gave them the short list (and yes, folks, that was the SHORT list) of the things I can't say on the forum, I wasn't met with any version of "yeah, but......." It's not that folks are finding any of the actions acceptable. They have sympathy for the other person's pain, but they aren't condoning any of the actions. I was actually pretty impressed with a couple of the exchanges that I had, and you know Me. That's saying something.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TigressLily
I don't think anyone here thinks there's anything OK with stalker behavior. It sounds like you had a horrendous experience, as well as LadyPact. If I happened to offend you in any way, I apologize. I didn't overreact because I could sense OP wasn't dealing with a stalking situation. But it's better to be safe than sorry and nip this in the bud right now before it could escalate any further. I'm not a sub, nor have I ever had a stalker - other than my ex had kept tabs on me through other mutual acquaintances & family friends, which was to be expected since I was the one who dumped him - but I can sympathize with submissives feeling bereft without condoning inappropriate actions. No, harassment is never justifiable, much less stalking.

I won't speak for RS. Personally, I wasn't offended. Not here and not on the other side. What I did feel, a time or two, was that some were looking at the pain a person might experience and not understand how that translates into how some of the comments *might* be interpreted.

I'm actually all for supportive comments regarding the grieving person at the end of whatever. Eat your ice cream, cry, watch chick flicks, listen to 'you done me wrong' songs, reach out to other s-types in the community, and get therapy if it's necessary. As I say with a lot of other things, your rights end where My nose begins. In other words, you don't get to inflict your crap on My world and if you can't manage that, you need professional help.

(All "you" statements are meant as a generic "you" and not to any particular individual.)


I was trying to impress a view from the stalked side of the coin. In some posts, I don't think people realize the sympathy or empathy for the other persons pain, the broken hearted, . . . well, what they expressed was empathy for what becomes the stalker's motives. Like you, I wasn't offended and I am also glad the OP didn't have a stalking situation.

Being stalked wasn't all that emotionally traumatic for me. I know breaking up can be traumatic for some. I like your advice about the "ice cream, cry, watch chick flicks". I do empathize with someone's emotional pain and believe they should heal and seek support. Like anything, there are constructive and destructive choices. The same is true when ending a relationship.

I had truly liked the girl that stalked me. I picked her in the first place because she was passionate and had deep emotional capacity . . . ok, ok, she had a really nice ass, she had a very pretty face and a real good figure overall. I gambled. I was a victim of my own bad judgement because when she flipped out . . . she flipped out with the same passionate gusto. Hey, ending it hurt my heart too. But getting stalked and having my house get trashed was a big pain in the ass. I was leasing the place so I was able to move out quickly. I had a soft landing in Daytona beach with the ex wife Christy Cougar and she licked my wounds so it all worked out ok in the end.

_____________________________

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I give good thread.

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 11/9/2013 7:58:43 AM   
Scala


Posts: 63
Joined: 7/5/2008
Status: offline 		Posted by LadyNeith a year ago: "Specifically, I'm a Dominant interested in control, ownership, service, and teaching my subs to be better, braver, fuller versions of themselves" , so "LadyNieth" maybe you can explain what happened? Maybe you can explain after setting out to own , control and teach your sub your idea of a "braver fuller version" why you have left him in such state? How does the saying go "with power comes great responsibility".

One of the few people to give a balanced view here was "Rochsub" , who didn't jump to conclusions and understood the level of commitment and the depth of feeling that these types of relationships can have. Many dominant people could learn alot from Rochsubs posting.

Sadly too many submissive men link dominance with intelligence and responsibility. sometimes this is not the case as many comments made here by "dominant" people has shown. Submissive men should not forget , submit - yes , serve -yes , enjoy -yes, but the responsibility for your own well being stays with you.

< Message edited by Scala -- 11/9/2013 8:05:41 AM >

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 11/9/2013 8:11:44 AM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline 		Maybe there's a 12 step program for addiction's to Domme's. If there is, I wonder what the "success" rate would be?

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(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 11/9/2013 7:37:02 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		extremely small

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to Charles6682)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: I think a former sub of mine is addicted to me - 11/12/2013 6:15:23 PM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline 		I can't even imagine how that would work. "Hi,I am Charles, I am addicted to Dommes, and blah blah blah". Probaly would have a small success rate. But any addiction can be taken to an extreme. Unlike alcohol or other addiction's like that, once you put the bottle down, the booze is gone. It doesn't really work that way with sexuality in general. Those "urge's" don't just go away. But with self control, it doesn't have to dictate or ruin someone's own well being. I'm way past the point of even caring anymore.

_____________________________

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http://www.Facebook.com/SubGuy

https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 78
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