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Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/2/2013 5:41:19 PM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/entire-section-of-rand-pauls-book-copied-verbatim-from-case

Rand Paul has built his political appeal around a claim of honesty and being firm in his convictions. How can a libertarian justify the use of others work without their explicit permission?
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RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/2/2013 7:53:30 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/entire-section-of-rand-pauls-book-copied-verbatim-from-case
Rand Paul has built his political appeal around a claim of honesty and being firm in his convictions. How can a libertarian justify the use of others work without their explicit permission?


If the claims are accurate, Paul should face the consequences of the plagiarism.

That being said, it might be nice to see how it's written in the book. I'm not saying he's innocent, but there might be more than buzzfeed is showing.


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RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/2/2013 8:22:10 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/entire-section-of-rand-pauls-book-copied-verbatim-from-case
Rand Paul has built his political appeal around a claim of honesty and being firm in his convictions. How can a libertarian justify the use of others work without their explicit permission?


If the claims are accurate, Paul should face the consequences of the plagiarism.

That being said, it might be nice to see how it's written in the book. I'm not saying he's innocent, but there might be more than buzzfeed is showing.


I don't have the book but the speeches are on the web and his speechwriters very clearly copied material directly from wiki and an AP story.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/2/2013 8:23:44 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		OK, I'm a bit confused... I get the difference between small 'l' libertarianism and the Libertarian Party.

But I seriously did think that one of the LP core values, was that government had no business getting involved in property disputes, as in the example of the person who moves upstream and dams it for his own use, while letting his neighbors go dry. Per Badnarik, et al. the nanny state should never force people to share and play nice, right?

So how are intellectual property rights something that any big 'L' partisan is bound to respect?


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/entire-section-of-rand-pauls-book-copied-verbatim-from-case

Rand Paul has built his political appeal around a claim of honesty and being firm in his convictions. How can a libertarian justify the use of others work without their explicit permission?


(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/2/2013 9:36:24 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

OK, I'm a bit confused... I get the difference between small 'l' libertarianism and the Libertarian Party.

But I seriously did think that one of the LP core values, was that government had no business getting involved in property disputes, as in the example of the person who moves upstream and dams it for his own use, while letting his neighbors go dry. Per Badnarik, et al. the nanny state should never force people to share and play nice, right?

So how are intellectual property rights something that any big 'L' partisan is bound to respect?

The only way libertarianism can even be imagined working is if everyone has an absolute and total respect for each other's property and rights. Otherwise it is simple anarchy with who ever has the biggest guns wins.

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RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/2/2013 10:10:27 PM   
EdBowie


Posts: 875
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Status: offline 		People have said similar things about pure communism, and pure democracy, and those are different from the Democrat party and the Communist Party actually making policy in a real world government.

I was simply asking about the LP's stated goal of 'hands off' when property disputes do arise.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

OK, I'm a bit confused... I get the difference between small 'l' libertarianism and the Libertarian Party.

But I seriously did think that one of the LP core values, was that government had no business getting involved in property disputes, as in the example of the person who moves upstream and dams it for his own use, while letting his neighbors go dry. Per Badnarik, et al. the nanny state should never force people to share and play nice, right?

So how are intellectual property rights something that any big 'L' partisan is bound to respect?

The only way libertarianism can even be imagined working is if everyone has an absolute and total respect for each other's property and rights. Otherwise it is simple anarchy with who ever has the biggest guns wins.


(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/2/2013 10:16:24 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		He sounds like a pseudo-intellectual. It looks like he collects information to plug and play into his belief system.

It's hard to spot smart people in the GOP. Tom Coburn of Oklahoma sounds pretty bright to me, but most of the GOP are jingoists and ideologists. The are a cause without solutions.

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RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/3/2013 12:01:50 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
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Status: offline 		Reminds me of the Biden plagiarizing case.

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RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/3/2013 3:47:58 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/entire-section-of-rand-pauls-book-copied-verbatim-from-case
Rand Paul has built his political appeal around a claim of honesty and being firm in his convictions. How can a libertarian justify the use of others work without their explicit permission?

If the claims are accurate, Paul should face the consequences of the plagiarism.
That being said, it might be nice to see how it's written in the book. I'm not saying he's innocent, but there might be more than buzzfeed is showing.

I don't have the book but the speeches are on the web and his speechwriters very clearly copied material directly from wiki and an AP story.


It doesn't matter if he used the material word-for-word, unless there was no acknowledgement.

Take the following two examples:

    quote:

    I believe that to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed (Declaration of Independence).


    quote:

    I believe that "to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed" (Declaration of Independence).


I used the exact same words, but the use of the quotation marks indicates that portion wasn't mine, but that it came from the DoI. The first one simply shows where I got the idea, but not that I took the text itself.

So, if you don't have the book (and I don't either), this could be spin more than an accurate accusation.

If truly there is plagiarism, then the plagiarist should face whatever consequence is appropriate.

< Message edited by DesideriScuri -- 11/3/2013 3:49:08 AM >

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/3/2013 3:52:49 AM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		It's not even 2014 and the PPLs are seem to be pretty up in arms about Paul.

I can smell the fear ...





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RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/3/2013 4:45:54 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/entire-section-of-rand-pauls-book-copied-verbatim-from-case
Rand Paul has built his political appeal around a claim of honesty and being firm in his convictions. How can a libertarian justify the use of others work without their explicit permission?

If the claims are accurate, Paul should face the consequences of the plagiarism.
That being said, it might be nice to see how it's written in the book. I'm not saying he's innocent, but there might be more than buzzfeed is showing.

I don't have the book but the speeches are on the web and his speechwriters very clearly copied material directly from wiki and an AP story.


It doesn't matter if he used the material word-for-word, unless there was no acknowledgement.

The speeches include no such acknowledgement. The book is vague. It has endnotes that imply the material is based on the works quoted. There is also a statement that the book is not original research.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/3/2013 6:11:10 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/entire-section-of-rand-pauls-book-copied-verbatim-from-case
Rand Paul has built his political appeal around a claim of honesty and being firm in his convictions. How can a libertarian justify the use of others work without their explicit permission?

If the claims are accurate, Paul should face the consequences of the plagiarism.
That being said, it might be nice to see how it's written in the book. I'm not saying he's innocent, but there might be more than buzzfeed is showing.

I don't have the book but the speeches are on the web and his speechwriters very clearly copied material directly from wiki and an AP story.

It doesn't matter if he used the material word-for-word, unless there was no acknowledgement.

The speeches include no such acknowledgement. The book is vague. It has endnotes that imply the material is based on the works quoted. There is also a statement that the book is not original research.


Without the book, you know this... how?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/3/2013 8:03:17 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

OK, I'm a bit confused... I get the difference between small 'l' libertarianism and the Libertarian Party.

But I seriously did think that one of the LP core values, was that government had no business getting involved in property disputes, as in the example of the person who moves upstream and dams it for his own use, while letting his neighbors go dry. Per Badnarik, et al. the nanny state should never force people to share and play nice, right?

So how are intellectual property rights something that any big 'L' partisan is bound to respect?

The only way libertarianism can even be imagined working is if everyone has an absolute and total respect for each other's property and rights. Otherwise it is simple anarchy with who ever has the biggest guns wins.

That's chaos, not anarchy. Anarchy as a political philosophy is based on voluntary co-operation, and is rather less "simple" in practice than anything LIbertarians or Randians are capable of coping with.


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RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/3/2013 8:19:49 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/entire-section-of-rand-pauls-book-copied-verbatim-from-case
Rand Paul has built his political appeal around a claim of honesty and being firm in his convictions. How can a libertarian justify the use of others work without their explicit permission?

If the claims are accurate, Paul should face the consequences of the plagiarism.
That being said, it might be nice to see how it's written in the book. I'm not saying he's innocent, but there might be more than buzzfeed is showing.

I don't have the book but the speeches are on the web and his speechwriters very clearly copied material directly from wiki and an AP story.

It doesn't matter if he used the material word-for-word, unless there was no acknowledgement.

The speeches include no such acknowledgement. The book is vague. It has endnotes that imply the material is based on the works quoted. There is also a statement that the book is not original research.


Without the book, you know this... how?


The article I quoted includes scans of the pages in question.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/3/2013 8:48:19 AM   
cloudboy


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A Congressman pulling a high school trick is both funny and disturbing.

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RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/3/2013 9:37:01 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		FR

And the great Obamabot spin machine goes on. Words which came out of the President's mouth are causing a bit of a stir, so words from a Republican must be the counter. It's a little better than the pot-smoking state level Repub getting a ticket, to push former Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr.'s sentencing off the front page, but the principle is exactly the same.



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RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/3/2013 9:51:59 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The article I quoted includes scans of the pages in question.


My apologies. I didn't read the entire article, so I missed the scans. I stopped reading when the article started alleging plagiarizing in his speeches.

So, now the question has to be, who is to blame here? If Paul didn't write the book or speeches, then he shouldn't bear the full brunt of the consequences. That should not be interpreted as his not having to face any consequences, just that if he's not the one that plagiarized, then he shouldn't bear the full brunt. If he put his name to the book, then he certainly does have some responsibility to verify that things are on the up and up.



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/3/2013 10:20:34 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The article I quoted includes scans of the pages in question.


My apologies. I didn't read the entire article, so I missed the scans. I stopped reading when the article started alleging plagiarizing in his speeches.

So, now the question has to be, who is to blame here? If Paul didn't write the book or speeches, then he shouldn't bear the full brunt of the consequences. That should not be interpreted as his not having to face any consequences, just that if he's not the one that plagiarized, then he shouldn't bear the full brunt. If he put his name to the book, then he certainly does have some responsibility to verify that things are on the up and up.

He should at the least get speechwriters who can write original material. And he should stop this sort of violent craziness:
http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/week-transcript-dan-pfeiffer-sen-rand-paul-nate/story?id=20758560&page=5

Saying he'd challenge the people pointing out this stuff to a duel? Really? What is wrong with this guy?

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RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/3/2013 10:55:00 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

He should at the least get speechwriters who can write original material. And he should stop this sort of violent craziness:
http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/week-transcript-dan-pfeiffer-sen-rand-paul-nate/story?id=20758560&page=5

Saying he'd challenge the people pointing out this stuff to a duel? Really? What is wrong with this guy?




Nothing. The problem is yours.

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RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/3/2013 11:41:28 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


A Congressman pulling a high school trick is both funny and disturbing.


And that's worse than a Vice President?

(in reply to cloudboy)
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