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RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/3/2013 11:42:52 AM

DomKen

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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

He should at the least get speechwriters who can write original material. And he should stop this sort of violent craziness:
http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/week-transcript-dan-pfeiffer-sen-rand-paul-nate/story?id=20758560&page=5

Saying he'd challenge the people pointing out this stuff to a duel? Really? What is wrong with this guy?

Nothing. The problem is yours.

Care to explain that? How is it my problem that Paul just said on national television that he'd like to challenge journalists to duels for publishing/broadcasting a fact about him?

(in reply to Yachtie)

Post #: 21

RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/3/2013 11:47:55 AM

Phydeaux

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There are a couple of relevant questions to me.

Did Paul try to pass off the material as "his". If he did, its lying. Not as bad as "if you like your healthcare you can keep it" - but still lying.
The second question is a question of who is responsible. Paul certainly didn't upload the speech to his website. So it is plausible that the webpage is the fault of the speechwriter / webbie.

The whole reason that this story is breaking now, of course, is press management. The story line for the past week is that Obama lied about heathcare. So the story is released about Paul plagiarizing, in an attempt to create the impression of equivalence; to diminish attention, and to control the news cycle.

Not a big enough story to actually succeed, but all they are hoping to buy is 2-3 days.

(in reply to Phydeaux)

Post #: 22

RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/3/2013 11:51:18 AM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
He should at the least get speechwriters who can write original material. And he should stop this sort of violent craziness:
http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/week-transcript-dan-pfeiffer-sen-rand-paul-nate/story?id=20758560&page=5
Saying he'd challenge the people pointing out this stuff to a duel? Really? What is wrong with this guy?

Rand said he'd challenge people who call him "dishonest, misleading or misrepresenting" to a duel, if dueling was still legal. He takes offense to be called those things - especially when, as he claims, he's never done so intentionally. Why would a legal response be crazy (you know, if dueling was legal)?

I am less concerned with the speech issues that were brought up than I am with the books. He asserts that he's written scientific papers and understands how to footnote. In a book, it's a must to give proper attribution. It's also a lot easier to do so properly in the written form.

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(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 23

RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/3/2013 4:20:53 PM

LookieNoNookie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/entire-section-of-rand-pauls-book-copied-verbatim-from-case

Rand Paul has built his political appeal around a claim of honesty and being firm in his convictions. How can a libertarian justify the use of others work without their explicit permission?

Interestingly, Kennedy said first, very eloquently (didn't he?) "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country".

Except....he didn't actually say it....first (well...he did actually say it....just.....someone looooong before him said it before him).

Every scientist whom we know the names of stood on the shoulders of Giants.

Every orator carry's others words into the heavens.

And every one of us has only done well because someone before us....did well before us...leading us effectively....first, into the future.

Belittle others, and you by default, belittle yourself.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 24

RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/3/2013 4:48:21 PM

EdBowie

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Which in no wise excuses claiming the work/property of someone else as your own without their permission.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/entire-section-of-rand-pauls-book-copied-verbatim-from-case

Rand Paul has built his political appeal around a claim of honesty and being firm in his convictions. How can a libertarian justify the use of others work without their explicit permission?

Interestingly, Kennedy said first, very eloquently (didn't he?) "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country".

Except....he didn't actually say it....first (well...he did actually say it....just.....someone looooong before him said it before him).

Every scientist whom we know the names of stood on the shoulders of Giants.

Every orator carry's others words into the heavens.

And every one of us has only done well because someone before us....did well before us...leading us effectively....first, into the future.

Belittle others, and you by default, belittle yourself.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)

Post #: 25

RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/4/2013 7:11:56 AM

hot4bondage

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Reminds me of the Biden plagiarizing case.

Reminds me of Hillary Clinton saying her plane was shot at.

"I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base." --Hillary Clinton, speech at George Washington University, March 17, 2008.

(in reply to Phydeaux)

Post #: 26

RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/4/2013 7:23:13 AM

Lucylastic

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Im guessing to bring up misspeaks of bushes reign of error would be out of bounds huh?
LMFAO

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Post #: 27

RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/4/2013 7:48:14 AM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
The second question is a question of who is responsible. Paul certainly didn't upload the speech to his website. So it is plausible that the webpage is the fault of the speechwriter / webbie.

Who employs the speechwriter and/or webbie?
If the person who pays them isn't responsible for their actions, then no fucker is. Or are you saying that libertarian boy isn't obliged to control his staff in any way?

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(in reply to Phydeaux)

Post #: 28

RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/4/2013 8:04:16 AM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Who employs the speechwriter and/or webbie?
If the person who pays them isn't responsible for their actions, then no fucker is. Or are you saying that libertarian boy isn't obliged to control his staff in any way?

So ... the "supervisor" or boss is ultimately responsible? That standard wasn't applied to the IRS Bullshit or the Benghazi Bullshit or the NSA Bullshit or ...

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RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/4/2013 8:09:47 AM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Who employs the speechwriter and/or webbie?
If the person who pays them isn't responsible for their actions, then no fucker is. Or are you saying that libertarian boy isn't obliged to control his staff in any way?

So ... the "supervisor" or boss is ultimately responsible? That standard wasn't applied to the IRS Bullshit or the Benghazi Bullshit or the NSA Bullshit or ...

Wasn't it?
What was all of the histrionic whining from neocons in here about, then?

_____________________________

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(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 30

RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/4/2013 8:10:00 AM

mnottertail

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Well, yeah it was, there were people lost their jobs in all those cases.

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Post #: 31

RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/4/2013 8:48:05 AM

Zonie63

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From: The Old Pueblo
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

A Congressman pulling a high school trick is both funny and disturbing.

For me, it was junior high school (7th grade). That's when I learned my lesson about plagiarism.

At the university level, it's a very serious violation which could get a student expelled.

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 32

RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/4/2013 12:28:37 PM

kalikshama

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Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

Care to explain that? How is it my problem that Paul just said on national television that he'd like to challenge journalists to duels for publishing/broadcasting a fact about him?

From the now-locked thread:
The Only Thing Keeping Rand Paul From Shooting Rachel Maddow to Death in a Duel

Without actually naming the MSNBC host who’s been all over his plagiarism like a Confederate flag over a Tea Party protest, Sen. Rand Paul expressed a wish to “duel” Rachel Maddow, or anyone else who dares to infer dishonesty from his habit of lifting from others in his speeches, on Sunday morning’s This Week. In an interview with host George Stephanopoulos, Paul explained why he would forego pistols at dawn with Rachel and company.

In trying to chalk his burgeoning plagiarism scandal to overactive “footnote police” (here’s a footnote to high-schoolers working on term papers: footnotes do not actually allow you to lift other people’s work verbatim), Paul told Stephanopoulos “I take it as an insult, and I will not lie down and say people can call me dishonest, misleading or misrepresenting. I have never intentionally done so. And like I say, if, you know, if dueling were legal in Kentucky, if they keep it up, you know, it would be a duel challenge.”

Of course, Paul wouldn’t challenge anyone to a duel, because that would be insane, or immoral, or insane and immoral, right? Wrong. The reason Rand Paul gave for not wanting to race Rachel Maddow to see who could shoot whom in the face first was that “I can’t do that, because I can’t hold office in Kentucky then.”

As jokes about firearms homicides go, it was pretty funny, but those unfamiliar with Kentucky politics might not have fully understood the punchline. It’s not just that shooting another human being to death wouldn’t “play well” in the Bluegrass State, it’s that in order to hold public office in the state, officeholders must swear an oath that they have never participated in a duel:

Read more: http://www.mediaite.com/online/the-only-thing-keeping-rand-paul-from-shooting-rachel-maddow-to-death-in-a-duel/

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 33

RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/4/2013 1:23:32 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
In trying to chalk his burgeoning plagiarism scandal to overactive “footnote police” (here’s a footnote to high-schoolers working on term papers: footnotes do not actually allow you to lift other people’s work verbatim), Paul told Stephanopoulos “I take it as an insult, and I will not lie down and say people can call me dishonest, misleading or misrepresenting. I have never intentionally done so.

Strange how he just recently bragged about being something he now says he isn't.

quote:

I would sometimes spread misinformation. This is a great tactic. Misinformation can be very important."

He went on to describe studying for a pathology test with friends in the library. "We spread the rumor that we knew what was on the test and it was definitely going to be all about the liver," he said. "We tried to trick all of our competing students into over-studying for the liver" and not studying much else.

"So, that's my advice," he concluded. "Misinformation works."

http://www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/the-truthiness-of-rand-paul-20131017

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 34

RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/5/2013 7:51:16 AM

Nosathro

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From: Orange County, California
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I wonder if Kirata is going to chastise Paul as he did me for using Wikipedia

http://news.yahoo.com/paul-seeks-dismiss-criticism-plagiarism-120740932.html

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 35

RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/5/2013 8:40:49 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Who employs the speechwriter and/or webbie?
If the person who pays them isn't responsible for their actions, then no fucker is. Or are you saying that libertarian boy isn't obliged to control his staff in any way?

So ... the "supervisor" or boss is ultimately responsible? That standard wasn't applied to the IRS Bullshit or the Benghazi Bullshit or the NSA Bullshit or ...

He`s now scrubbing his website of all suspecting copying and thefts....lending credibility to his critics and to the reality that he did in deed plagiarize...

My favorite morsel in all`a this is his particularly strong upset at being officially

called dishonest....he`s all like 'how dare you' and shit....while trying to play like it was no big deal.....who are these truth/realty-nazis anyway......

He`ll never be able to run for president after being found to be a plagiarist.....I mean it`s not like he can take it all back,especiall after getting all "I challenge you to a dual" and shit....It`s really stingy....

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 36

RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/5/2013 9:03:03 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
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From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

There are a couple of relevant questions to me.

Did Paul try to pass off the material as "his". If he did, its lying. Not as bad as "if you like your healthcare you can keep it" - but still lying.
The second question is a question of who is responsible. Paul certainly didn't upload the speech to his website. So it is plausible that the webpage is the fault of the speechwriter / webbie.

The whole reason that this story is breaking now, of course, is press management. The story line for the past week is that Obama lied about heathcare. So the story is released about Paul plagiarizing, in an attempt to create the impression of equivalence; to diminish attention, and to control the news cycle.

Not a big enough story to actually succeed, but all they are hoping to buy is 2-3 days.

The way scandals work in America is kinda fickle...Sometimes their doesn`t even have to be wrong doing and folks get fucked....like with ACORN..

Sometimes they`re waiting to happen to folks, especially the sloppy ones, who depend on a lazy press or apathy for cover.

This is not the only weird/fucked up thing about rand that if was known widely by folks,would put him in the dog-house.....Namely, his top aidsd affilation with neo-confederates....

Now that rand has make himself a person of interest regarding his personal ethics and character...more embarrassing stuff like rand`s pals will get more scruntany and comment......by the 'innernetz'.....

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Phydeaux)

Post #: 37

RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/5/2013 9:14:42 AM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Who employs the speechwriter and/or webbie?
If the person who pays them isn't responsible for their actions, then no fucker is. Or are you saying that libertarian boy isn't obliged to control his staff in any way?

So ... the "supervisor" or boss is ultimately responsible? That standard wasn't applied to the IRS Bullshit or the Benghazi Bullshit or the NSA Bullshit or ...

He`s now scrubbing his website of all suspecting copying and thefts....lending credibility to his critics and to the reality that he did in deed plagiarize...

Shouldn't he take down the items that were plagiarized (or that he was accused of plagiarizing)? Shouldn't they be taken down and any problem corrected?

quote:

My favorite morsel in all`a this is his particularly strong upset at being officially called dishonest....he`s all like 'how dare you' and shit....while trying to play like it was no big deal.....who are these truth/realty-nazis anyway......
He`ll never be able to run for president after being found to be a plagiarist.....I mean it`s not like he can take it all back,especiall after getting all "I challenge you to a dual" and shit....It`s really stingy....

This shit will all blow over and any run for the Presidency won't be waylayed over this. It's simply not going to be that big of a deal. Biden has plagiarized (though it has cost him his race for the candidacy before).

Rand should be taken to task for whatever wrongdoing he has committed. If his only wrongdoing was not vetting his ghostwriter(s) and speech writer(s), then he should face the appropriate consequences of those actions. If the alleged plagiarism was his fault, then he should face the appropriate consequences.

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 38

RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/5/2013 9:42:55 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Who employs the speechwriter and/or webbie?
If the person who pays them isn't responsible for their actions, then no fucker is. Or are you saying that libertarian boy isn't obliged to control his staff in any way?

So ... the "supervisor" or boss is ultimately responsible? That standard wasn't applied to the IRS Bullshit or the Benghazi Bullshit or the NSA Bullshit or ...

He`s now scrubbing his website of all suspecting copying and thefts....lending credibility to his critics and to the reality that he did in deed plagiarize...

Shouldn't he take down the items that were plagiarized (or that he was accused of plagiarizing)? Shouldn't they be taken down and any problem corrected?

quote:

My favorite morsel in all`a this is his particularly strong upset at being officially called dishonest....he`s all like 'how dare you' and shit....while trying to play like it was no big deal.....who are these truth/realty-nazis anyway......
He`ll never be able to run for president after being found to be a plagiarist.....I mean it`s not like he can take it all back,especiall after getting all "I challenge you to a dual" and shit....It`s really stingy....

This shit will all blow over and any run for the Presidency won't be waylayed over this. It's simply not going to be that big of a deal. Biden has plagiarized (though it has cost him his race for the candidacy before).

Rand should be taken to task for whatever wrongdoing he has committed. If his only wrongdoing was not vetting his ghostwriter(s) and speech writer(s), then he should face the appropriate consequences of those actions. If the alleged plagiarism was his fault, then he should face the appropriate consequences.

We`ll see....it`s hurting his standing at home....Local papers are bashing him for being dishonest and refusing to answer questions....

Folks with no dog in the fight but who might like rand are turned off not only by the intellectual theft but by his immature,childlike reaction to his scandals.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/05/rachel-maddow-rand-paul-duel-response_n_4218173.html?ir=Politics&ref=topbar

Ms Maddow the reporter who outed paul as a cheat, points out how rand also pussied out, when his Lincoln`s assassin`s birth-day calibrator/confederate flag waiving pal...... was found out...

It`s interesting and compelling stuff.....even to the political neophyte....

As well,Ms Maddow, points out what local Kentucky news papers are saying about paul today.

He`s written books.at least three so far, where he just cut and pasted whole sections of other people`s thoughts/writings, without acknowledging them. How does one take that back? Plus floors speeches he gave and public speeches he gave, contain the work of others...frick`n verbatim...

Now if paul admitted to his "mistakes" and stops going palin on the press for accurately reporting the facts and explained he had no idea what plagiarism was and somehow unexplainably didn`t know he was plagiarizing other`s work....he might have a chance to salvage his integrity....

I`m not hopeful.....even his primary opponents won`t be able to resist poking him for cheating and challenging him to a duel if he`s offended......

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

Post #: 39

RE: Rand Paul's speechwriters and ghost writers plagarize. - 11/5/2013 10:00:08 AM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
He`s written books.at least three so far, where he just cut and pasted whole sections of other people`s thoughts/writings, without acknowledging them. How does one take that back? Plus floors speeches he gave and public speeches he gave, contain the work of others...frick`n verbatim...
Now if paul admitted to his "mistakes" and stops going palin on the press for accurately reporting the facts and explained he had no idea what plagiarism was and somehow unexplainably didn`t know he was plagiarizing other`s work....he might have a chance to salvage his integrity....

Did he actually write the books, though? Or, did he use a ghostwriter? The bulk of the plagiarism consequences should go to the one that actually wrote the books and plagiarized. Even if he used a ghostwriter, he should have vetted what was being attributed to him and made sure there was no plagiarism. So, there should still be some consequence if there was plagiarism.

The same goes for the alleged plagiarism in his speeches.

quote:

I`m not hopeful.....even his primary opponents won`t be able to resist poking him for cheating and challenging him to a duel if he`s offended......

Oh, I guarantee that will happen.

It might be interesting to see how he reacts to the jabs. If he melts down, then I can see his candidacy melting right along with him.

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 40

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