RE: The Dark Side

RE: The Dark Side (Full Version)

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cloudboy -> RE: The Dark Side (7/3/2006 7:20:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TxBadMan Since I , myself, have limits on what I will and will not do, you can bet that my girls have limits also. Yes, but this notion of limits competes another notion many Doms hold dear, which is that their sub should do anything for them and that demonstrations of submission should have no limits. As you know, "real" subs don't say "NO." And, isn't conquering "no" a real dominant thrill? Isn't it a proof of power? Effective dominance is the identification of limits and ruling within them. Boundaries don't limit power, no, they are in fact foundational to power.

Caretakr -> RE: The Dark Side (7/3/2006 7:23:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy quote: ORIGINAL: TxBadMan Since I , myself, have limits on what I will and will not do, you can bet that my girls have limits also. Yes, but this notion of limits competes another notion many Doms hold dear, which is that their sub should do anything for them and that demonstrations of submission should have no limits. As you know, "real" subs don't say "NO." And, isn't conquering "no" a real dominant thrill? Isn't it a proof of power? Effective dominance is the identification of limits and ruling within them. Boundaries don't limit power, no, they are in fact foundational to power. A Master's power will always be limited by the slave's inherent maximum ability.

TxBadMan -> RE: The Dark Side (7/3/2006 7:38:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy quote: ORIGINAL: TxBadMan Since I , myself, have limits on what I will and will not do, you can bet that my girls have limits also. Yes, but this notion of limits competes another notion many Doms hold dear, which is that their sub should do anything for them and that demonstrations of submission should have no limits. As you know, "real" subs don't say "NO." And, isn't conquering "no" a real dominant thrill? Isn't it a proof of power? Effective dominance is the identification of limits and ruling within them. Boundaries don't limit power, no, they are in fact foundational to power. The key word would be 'many' Dominants. Not all are convinced that convincing a submissive or slave to 'submit' to something that they would originally not do, is the ultimate in submission. To my way of thinking, when my girls come to me and say 'Master, I know I said I did not want to do this. However, I now am curious and would like to try.", that, to me, is the ultimate in submission. They have gained enough trust and respect in me to allow me something that they originally said no to. Without coercion, or pressure from me. Granted, once they pass that point, the activity is no longer off limits, whether they enjoy it or not. Personally, I would much rather conquer uncertaintly and fear; than just a simple single word. quote: A Master's power will always be limited by the slave's inherent maximum ability. I believe that this statement is correct.

mpnaleksandra2 -> RE: The Dark Side (7/3/2006 7:38:53 PM)
The lady in question is SICK! I understand obeying the one you consider you Master however, our duty to protect our children goes beyond any devotion to anyone. I don't understand how one can harm their child or any child for that matter because someone tells her to do it. This is just my rant!

krikket -> RE: The Dark Side (7/3/2006 7:41:34 PM)
A couple of years ago i'd been speaking, via chat, im's and phone, with a man i met on line. i admit i was attracted to him, or at least the persona he projected. i think it was maybe our 3rd phone call when he began asking questions about my "relationship" with my youngest almost grown unmentionables. i have to admit i was speechless, stuck dumb..i had never met this guy and he starts talking about involving my unmentoinable in "our" future relationship? i swear, i looked at the phone, coughed, said..you're kidding, right? and when he assured me that this was my "price" for any relationship. At that point, i hit the off button (bad thing with cordless is ya can't slam em down..). He had the gall to call again a few weeks later, wanting to know if i had reconsidered. Again, i hit the off button, and went about my day. .. 'nuff said on that one. As for your question, as an adult, my first responsibility is to myself and my kids, the order of that varying from time to time. Part of that responsibility is not to pick for a partner someone who would do one of us harm. It's really that simple. i could never be with a man who wanted me to do something illegal, or anything like that. i've never believed those that idealize the "i'll do anything for you" type. It's irresponsible, at the very least, immature and not very bright. (i'm having a hard time keeping this "clean", so please forgive me if i'm not making much sense. While i can understand (maybe) that someone can get so caught up in a relationship that they may feel that way, and god knows it's a heady feeling, we also need to keep our thinking clear. Once, as a kid who had gone alone with someone else and used that as an excuse for doing wrong, i can remember my mother asking me..if they told you to walk off of a cliff would you do that too? i guess as i've gone alone in my life, both in the modern everyday world, and in this one, i remember that cliff, and remember that i still don't know how to walk on air. Just my 2 cents..thanks for an interesting thread.. regards, jimini

SusanofO -> RE: The Dark Side (7/3/2006 7:56:27 PM)
I know I would in fact walk if they demanded I "just try" Scat.[;)] I truly am not joking on that - that is one big whopping NO with several exclamation points. Actually, I have no problem giving someone my trust, but I do have (and will probably always have) "limits" - they'd need to earn my trust, period. I am fully willing to reciprocate on that. Just from reading these boards I already know I will probably try things some other people probably would not - and enjoy them, too. I have an adventurous spirit (not that it's a contest, no offense intended). I am praying, that when I am ready for a partner that other people won't take advantage of that in a bad way. I mentioned this just now on another thread. I have mild to moderate OCD and it sometimes comes in very handy. And if someone were to want me to be "no limits" without knowing me all that well, I have no problem giving them, say, a 50 page list of scenarios, pretty quickly, where that agreement could go wildly wrong, and asking them just what they would do with me in each of them. If they could weather that, I'd be theirs - with some caveats (unless I became completely convinced they don't have my best interests at heart). And I do have to ask why someone handing over their own child for abuse would have anyone's (except the Dom's) best interests at heart. - Susan

NINASHARP -> RE: The Dark Side (7/3/2006 8:00:05 PM)
I do not know how to respond to this, only to say its probably the most disturbing piece of power play I have seen, next to those who actually take their own life or another on behalf of their Master/Mistress orders. Though, I think the link in question is a good example of having a "no limits slave". I can not imagine what would motivate a parent to go to such lengths to please a so called "Master", and an online one to boot? Limits or no limits, those are usually negotiated between the two people involved in the relationship, how the unmentionable was brought into the scenario is beyond my comprehension. It makes me wonder why there seems to be so much desperation here and else where. I see it at least 20 times a week in mail from unknown subs, "I will do anything for you", "please let me serve you". not knowing me, nor do I take those request serious, but even in threads here on CM, the first one that comes to mind is "Mistress is worried", and so many more that are jumping head first into a relationship without even a first meeting. I just don't get it? Does exploring such desires really warrent such acts of desperation, where one would jeopardize their own well being? Let alone fuck up their unmentionable(s) for the rest of their lives? Nina

indigo302 -> RE: The Dark Side (7/3/2006 8:14:52 PM)
I've taken the better part of an hour, reading the article, as well as all of the responses, and several thoughts come to mind. (Many of which you may not like) When a woman is as desperate for attention as this one obviously was - it has to show. Where was her family and her community before it came to this horrible tragedy? Perhaps as some have said - I worry about me and mine, I don't have time to mentor others - etc. Now I'm not blaming those who choose not to help, this woman did what she did, and the responsibility is on her, and the man...BUT...could someone have stepped in BEFORE the child was irreparably damaged? Or did those around her put blinders on because they couldn't be bothered/didn't have time/insert excuse of your choosing? You know, I've just decided not to continue this post. Those who would understand what I was going to say, already feel it, and those who would disagree, won't be changed by my rantings.....

indigo302 -> RE: The Dark Side (7/3/2006 8:16:40 PM)
As to the no limits thing....as human beings we ALL have limits.

gypsyssoul -> RE: The Dark Side (7/3/2006 8:25:19 PM)
~wow ~ ok ~wow i can see .. being that committed .. and trust that much and yes for that right person i could see no limits ... cause i would trust i know my limits have changed greatly .. over the 3 years i have looked ... anyhow ... :: goes back to the corner to read forums

akisha -> RE: The Dark Side (7/3/2006 9:07:47 PM)
~fast reply~ As far as i'm concerned there is no such thing as no limits for an reasonabley intelligent person. We all have limits, even if they are few. Even those that have no limits to their Master or Mistress, i'm sure they would not commit an act against their morality for that person such as murder, molestation or anything else that is just plain wrong. I know personally there is no way anyone could talk me into doing anything i find personally morally perverse or wrong. I would never allow anyone to hurt my child or talk me into hurting her. I know there are people that feel they need the love of a man or a woman and will do almost anything to get that. Honestly I feel sorry for them, that they are missing something so vital with in themselves and they think they can find it in someone else. I don't know the lady, but to be honest I don't feel pity for her being sent to prison for molesting her son. She had to know that what this cyber Master was telling her was wrong to do.

cloudboy -> RE: The Dark Side (7/4/2006 5:09:32 AM)
I think the scenario of this nutjob DOM is somewhat an example of a powertrip / ego thing, where he identified his slave's ultimate "weakness" (Call it, the Aztech influence.) and made her go there. For such a DOM, this scenario is a kind of Mt. Everest summit. For the slave, too, its a kind of mega demonstration of submission.

SusanofO -> RE: The Dark Side (7/4/2006 6:08:45 AM)
I really do have to ask whether it would be considered in the submissive's best interest do ask something that they know will be next to impossibe for them to do.Unless they are going to just see if they'll do it, and then not really make them do it in the end (even then, does it make the submissive's integrity look questionable)? If she'd stated something as a limit and now is re-negging? What is the point? I know limits can be re-visited, but if she's caving because she's "in love"? I am sure people do it, I can see how it happens. What does it say about the Dom if he isn't really pretty darn certain this isn't going to really harm her? I mean, he better know that, and I wonder how he can tell? That would have to be one hell of a confident guy. And boy, she'd really really have to trust this person. - Susan

truesub4u -> RE: The Dark Side (7/4/2006 7:22:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy As you know, "real" subs don't say "NO." And this is where the "bullshit" comes in... real subs do say no... specially when they have their shit together and know right from wrong... reguardless of what some dominant is going to do as punishment..... there's always the door that leads to better things than what one is in at that time... But even if they do not have their shit together... knowing right from wrong... NO does comes into play here... as I stated in earlier post... the article stated.. she did argue no in doing what this dominant commanded. So she did know right from wrong...and she used NO... what happened after that... has not a damn thing to do with submission....domination..... just pure bullshit (words can't really decribe the hell that child went thru).... so to use the statement.. "real subs don't say no".. is pure bullshit.

Caretakr -> RE: The Dark Side (7/4/2006 7:56:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truesub4u quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy As you know, "real" subs don't say "NO." And this is where the "bullshit" comes in... real subs do say no... specially when they have their shit together and know right from wrong... reguardless of what some dominant is going to do as punishment..... there's always the door that leads to better things than what one is in at that time... But even if they do not have their shit together... knowing right from wrong... NO does comes into play here... as I stated in earlier post... the article stated.. she did argue no in doing what this dominant commanded. So she did know right from wrong...and she used NO... what happened after that... has not a damn thing to do with submission....domination..... just pure bullshit (words can't really decribe the hell that child went thru).... so to use the statement.. "real subs don't say no".. is pure bullshit. These people obviously ignored rule one. At least my rule one protect the property at all costs-even if it's from the master.

lanwolf -> RE: The Dark Side (7/4/2006 8:21:23 AM)
indigo i dont think you read the all the posts here fully. As i have said i know this person and the one she clamied was her so called master, i also know W/who she had as friends here in Edmonton. N/no one to my knowladge here knew anything was happening, she talked to no O/one about it but could have talked to alot of people asking for help or assistance on how to deal with the guy in question and trust me no O/one here would have told her what was being asked was ok, would have turned her away, or i hope would have turned a blind eye to what she was doing to her son. i know myself if i had seen any signs of this happening she would have been reported that day and i would have also been talking to her about the situation that i had called in the police and social services and making sure she understood why. i do know that when it was discovered by another submisivie in the city it was reported right away to the proper people. she was not alone, she had support and no O/one in the City knew this was happening untill after it came out.

subjected2006 -> RE: The Dark Side (7/4/2006 9:27:11 AM)
i should have read all the posts..did not realise this was an on-line infraction.. i am shocked as well... also understand the anger all these posters are venting and agree with most everything being said here EXCEPT that the kids would be better off in the homes of people they know..you forget those are the same people who were blinded to this craziness. makes you wonder why. and so ..on-line gets some more bad rap... because of someone who didnt know the deffinition of her "rights to refuse" and that is what i truly feel is what the bottom line is here...if this person felt she had the right,ie..was worthy enough to refuse this guy it wouldnt have happened. period. and ill let those of you who like to sort these things out talk about the child victim.. but please dont forget that that woman is sick and needs help also...

daddysprop247 -> RE: The Dark Side (7/4/2006 9:36:26 AM)
read the article, and despite that tragic situation, there is still imo nothing wrong with the concept of a "no limits" relationship. when i entered the lifestyle, it was my understanding that a Master/slave relationship, by very definition, was one in which the slave had no power, no rights, and no limits. however there's a loud PC segment of the lifestyle who proclaim that we all have rights, SSC is universal, and there is no such thing as no limits (or shouldn't be). obviously, i'm not in that crowd. i'm a slave. i have no limits of my own. my Master has the right to do whatever he wills with me. and yes that means WHATEVER. i also have no choice but to submit to his will. would i sexually abuse a child on my Master's orders? no. not because i would refuse, not because it is a limit, but because it just wouldn't be possible. i am a submissive as well as a slave...i cannot commit an act of dominance against another person, which is what one is doing when they abuse a child. i'm just not wired to dominate. however in submitting and being submissive one can still find themselves in a situation where various kinds of abuse and other not-so-nice things take place. to me, that is the reality of this life, of being owned and no longer having control over your life or fate. if it's not a reality you can accept, then don't choose this path.

Tikkiee -> RE: The Dark Side (7/4/2006 9:39:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truesub4u quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy As you know, "real" subs don't say "NO." And this is where the "bullshit" comes in... real subs do say no... specially when they have their shit together and know right from wrong... reguardless of what some dominant is going to do as punishment..... there's always the door that leads to better things than what one is in at that time... But even if they do not have their shit together... knowing right from wrong... NO does comes into play here... as I stated in earlier post... the article stated.. she did argue no in doing what this dominant commanded. So she did know right from wrong...and she used NO... what happened after that... has not a damn thing to do with submission....domination..... just pure bullshit (words can't really decribe the hell that child went thru).... so to use the statement.. "real subs don't say no".. is pure bullshit. Maybe I missed something, but I actually thought cloudboy was being sarcastic with that remark.

MyCaptainsPet -> RE: The Dark Side (7/4/2006 10:14:42 AM)
First, i will admit i've only read the first 2 pages of this thread. But, i'd like to just post my thoughts on Knight's first question.. quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists So the question...... Does "No Limits" mean NO Limits... Does "Do Anything" mean ANYTHING"? What are your thoughts? What additional thoughts do you have to share? For me, i have no limits with my C.... BUT.... HE is a responsible, ethical, caring, and sane man. He would never ask me to do something which would cause harm to me mentally or physically OR to anyone/thing else for that matter. The only reason i can have no limits with him is because...simply... HE has them... i know his limits and i know that i am safe in his hands, as are those i care about. This enables me to be free with him. i am precious to him... i'm cherished by him... Does that make sense?

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