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RE: Okay, the anti gun people have an ally in Maryland - 8/9/2014 7:29:10 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

The race of the deceased is only "the real issue" to leftists who want to make everything about race.

what fresh idiocy is this....


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RE: Okay, the anti gun people have an ally in Maryland - 8/9/2014 7:44:45 PM   
cloudboy


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Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		>There were a half dozen witnesses all of whom verified Pinkerton's story.<

I never read anything about that in the local press.

>The race of the deceased is only "the real issue" to leftists who want to make everything about race.<

Then why the racist epithet? Next, this is my area and the shooter lives in white area that's not particularly friendly to blacks. Where I live, many white people still refer to blacks as [Moderator removed racial epithet]. White people are also more irrationally fearful of blacks. The fact that a black man was interested in the guy's wife, that must have been quite a factor.

>I think that showing up a 2 am demanding that Mrs Pinkerton leave with him and attacking Pinkerton when he objected might have something to do with what happened. <

Yes, shooting the man dead with a gun -- plus, we only have his version of the what happened.

>The prosecutor's blatant anti gun stance is the only reason this even went to court. <

An "anti-gun stance" is a stance about guns -- prosecutors in Maryland are anti-homicide. If you commit a homicide, you should be prepared to go to court and defend yourself, especially if the victim was unarmed and there were other ways to handle the conflict. To listen to you the victims in America are gun owners, and not the families, injured, and deceased affected by mass gun violence.

< Message edited by Moderator7 -- 8/10/2014 6:52:41 AM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Okay, the anti gun people have an ally in Maryland - 8/9/2014 7:57:21 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		There were a half dozen witnesses all of whom verified Pinkerton's story.<

I never read anything about that in the local press.


That is funny since I got that info from your local press.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Okay, the anti gun people have an ally in Maryland - 8/9/2014 8:00:22 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		There were a half dozen witnesses all of whom verified Pinkerton's story.<

I never read anything about that in the local press.


Try reading the capital gazette that is where I found out.
And they were not exactly friendly to Pinkerton.
There had to be witnesses it was in his home and the guy was trying to take his wife away.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 8/9/2014 8:12:25 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Okay, the anti gun people have an ally in Maryland - 8/9/2014 8:05:11 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		The prosecutor's blatant anti gun stance is the only reason this even went to court. <

An "anti-gun stance" is a stance about guns -- prosecutors in Maryland are anti-homicide. If you commit a homicide, you should be prepared to go to court and defend yourself, especially if the victim was unarmed and there were other ways to handle the conflict. To listen to you the victims in America are gun owners, and not the families, injured, and deceased affected by mass gun violence.

When someone is pounding on your door at 2 am it isn't bizzare.
Not calling a time out when being attacked to call 911 isn't a crime.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Okay, the anti gun people have an ally in Maryland - 8/9/2014 8:07:49 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		The prosecutor's blatant anti gun stance is the only reason this even went to court. <

An "anti-gun stance" is a stance about guns -- prosecutors in Maryland are anti-homicide. If you commit a homicide, you should be prepared to go to court and defend yourself, especially if the victim was unarmed and there were other ways to handle the conflict. To listen to you the victims in America are gun owners, and not the families, injured, and deceased affected by mass gun violence.

Pinkerton was the victim, and there was no mass gun violence.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Okay, the anti gun people have an ally in Maryland - 8/9/2014 8:12:43 PM   
cloudboy


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Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

There were a half dozen witnesses all of whom verified Pinkerton's story.


I think you are making that up.

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Okay, the anti gun people have an ally in Maryland - 8/9/2014 8:15:19 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

There were a half dozen witnesses all of whom verified Pinkerton's story.


I think you are making that up.

Of course you do, otherwise your preconceived notion of what "must" have happened would be wrong, which it is.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Okay, the anti gun people have an ally in Maryland - 8/9/2014 8:18:15 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

There were a half dozen witnesses all of whom verified Pinkerton's story.


I think you are making that up.

Even without witnesses think.
It happened in the Pinkerton home a 2 AM, it isn't like Pinkerton went hunting for Green and shot him. Green went into the Pinkerton home looking for trouble, even your have to admit this.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Okay, the anti gun people have an ally in Maryland - 8/9/2014 8:28:14 PM   
subrosaDom


Posts: 724
Joined: 2/16/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

The race of the deceased is only "the real issue" to leftists who want to make everything about race.

what fresh idiocy is this....



The judge issued a directed verdict before the defense presented its case. The judge ruled the prosecution had failed to meet its burden of proof. Hence, there was no charge against which to defend. So it seems evident this was at best a faulty prosecution and at worst a malicious one.

Source: http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2014-06-20/news/bs-md-ar-pinkerton-verdict-20140620_1_glen-burnie-man-shooting-death-kendall-green

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(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Okay, the anti gun people have an ally in Maryland - 8/9/2014 8:32:59 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		please ensure you know what is being said by me, NOT what you think I mean..
it makes you look like a complete idiot


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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Okay, the anti gun people have an ally in Maryland - 8/9/2014 8:38:01 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

The race of the deceased is only "the real issue" to leftists who want to make everything about race.

what fresh idiocy is this....



The judge issued a directed verdict before the defense presented its case. The judge ruled the prosecution had failed to meet its burden of proof. Hence, there was no charge against which to defend. So it seems evident this was at best a faulty prosecution and at worst a malicious one.

Source: http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2014-06-20/news/bs-md-ar-pinkerton-verdict-20140620_1_glen-burnie-man-shooting-death-kendall-green

You would think that a directed verdict would satisfy anyone.
I didn't bring race into it clouldboy did.
He wants it to be a racist killing so my response was reasonable.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to subrosaDom)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Okay, the anti gun people have an ally in Maryland - 8/10/2014 7:29:58 AM   
cloudboy


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He was acquitted. The remaining sub questions are: (1) could he have handled the conflict in another way without murdering green (2) was race a factor in the decision to use deadly force.

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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Okay, the anti gun people have an ally in Maryland - 8/10/2014 10:54:48 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


He was acquitted. The remaining sub questions are: (1) could he have handled the conflict in another way without murdering green (2) was race a factor in the decision to use deadly force.

Actually he was not acquitted it was a directed verdict, that means the state had no case.
He didn't murder Green it was self defense, since you don't seem to understand it there is a massive difference between the two.
When a man forces his way into my home at 2 am the last thing I would be concerned with is his race.
A racist couldn't make it in the Air Force.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Okay, the anti gun people have an ally in Maryland - 8/10/2014 11:01:01 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Actually, racists in the Air Force do quite well.

http://politic365.com/2012/05/09/the-united-states-air-force-you-dont-know-discrimination-and-cover-ups/

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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Okay, the anti gun people have an ally in Maryland - 8/10/2014 12:58:31 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Actually he was not acquitted it was a directed verdict, that means the state had no case.
He didn't murder Green it was self defense, since you don't seem to understand it there is a massive difference between the two.
When a man forces his way into my home at 2 am the last thing I would be concerned with is his race.
A racist couldn't make it in the Air Force.


One can still be acquitted by a directed verdict; double jeopardy attaches. I misused the word murder and should have stated "killed" instead.

Regarding the role of race, we're not talking about you, but the killer. He knew Green, exchanged words with him, used a racial epithet, and then shot him to death.

Just to be a little "dramatic" about it, Clint Eastwood's macho characters never shot any unarmed people to death b/c he was always better able to handle himself than these scared, trigger-happy, homeowners. In fact in one of his last movies, Gran Torino, he actually befriends the boy who broke into his garage. (At first he had a shot gun pulled up on him.)

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Okay, the anti gun people have an ally in Maryland - 8/10/2014 1:12:55 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Actually he was not acquitted it was a directed verdict, that means the state had no case.
He didn't murder Green it was self defense, since you don't seem to understand it there is a massive difference between the two.
When a man forces his way into my home at 2 am the last thing I would be concerned with is his race.
A racist couldn't make it in the Air Force.


One can still be acquitted by a directed verdict; double jeopardy attaches. I misused the word murder and should have stated "killed" instead.

Regarding the role of race, we're not talking about you, but the killer. He knew Green, exchanged words with him, used a racial epithet, and then shot him to death.

Just to be a little "dramatic" about it, Clint Eastwood's macho characters never shot any unarmed people to death b/c he was always better able to handle himself than these scared, trigger-happy, homeowners. In fact in one of his last movies, Gran Torino, he actually befriends the boy who broke into his garage. (At first he had a shot gun pulled up on him.)


A There is a massive difference between killing and murder and the use of the word murder betrays your bias.
B Pinkerton's brother was there and says he had no choice.
C It was an M1 Garand, not a shotgun.
Your inability to tell the difference tells a lot about your firearms knowledge.
D A directed verdict is different from an acquittal. An acquittal means the jury doesn't think there is enough evidence to convict. A directed verdict means there should never have been charges.
F You want him to go to jail because he didn't talk nice to the man who has pushed into his home and demanded that his wife leave with him.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Okay, the anti gun people have an ally in Maryland - 8/10/2014 4:29:40 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		I never said I wanted him to go to jail. I just think higher caliber people can avoid the use of deadly force. I also don't understand a cheering section for the use of deadly force against unarmed people.

In regards to this killing, I do have a "bias" because I think deadly force could have been avoided. If you can avoid the use of deadly force, I tend to think in terms of murder, but I corrected myself after you pointed out the difference.





< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/10/2014 4:31:18 PM >

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RE: Okay, the anti gun people have an ally in Maryland - 8/10/2014 5:58:41 PM   
Kirata


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I just think higher caliber people can avoid the use of deadly force.

Higher caliber people? Really? Do you include yourself among them? And what distinguishes a "high caliber" person from, you know, all those "lesser" caliber people?

K.


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Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Okay, the anti gun people have an ally in Maryland - 8/10/2014 6:11:20 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I never said I wanted him to go to jail. I just think higher caliber people can avoid the use of deadly force. I also don't understand a cheering section for the use of deadly force against unarmed people.

In regards to this killing, I do have a "bias" because I think deadly force could have been avoided. If you can avoid the use of deadly force, I tend to think in terms of murder, but I corrected myself after you pointed out the difference.





I figured out how Pinkerton could have avoided violence. He could have packed his wife's stuff.
I carry a .45, is that high enough caliber?
You forget Green initiated the violence not Pinkerton.
Everyone would have preferred that Green had stayed home and not started trouble.
We would have preferred that Green had taken the warning and not attacked Pinkerton.
We would even have preferred that he was only wounded.
But we are outraged that the idiot bigoted prosecutor tried to put him away
for defending himself and his family.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 120
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